Utah Girl - Apparently you have never used a suppressor - calling it a
"silencer" is a misnomer. A suppressor does not make a firearm silent.
You still hear the gunshot, just not as loud.
Gary O, in answer to your question, which is totally irrelevant, the answer is
no. Keeping Obama Care wouldn't have prevented this madness.This shouldn't be a debate about gun control. Bad guy would still have
gotten a gun. Bad guy would still have used said gun. He most likely bought it
in Illinois and brought it with him.The debate should be, is the
current toxic environment, mostly from the left, what caused this. I saw bad
guy's facebook posts before they were deactivated. He was a left wing
loon. No question. The right during Obama wasn't totally
blameless but the left has been far worse over the years going back to
Reagan.The key is to ratchet it back. Remember the Golden Rule and
act accordingly.You can have policy differences but those
differences can be talked out civilly. Not by calling people liars and etc.
The conservatives will ignore the irony of this event. There were armed security
at the field, they did return fire, and while the suspect later died of wounds
received, he also inflicted injuries on his targets.It would seem
rather than place more controls on gun ownership, the conservatives would rather
make 'America Great' by turning the country in to a banana republic,
where every wealthy person, or government official is surrounded by a security
detail, and shootings occur daily.The irony is increased, when one
recalls the number of times one has heard the line 'gun ownership protects
against government tyranny'.Well this is what happens when an
individual takes the phrase 'sic semper tyrannis' to heart, which
happens to be part of the Virginia state seal...
@patriotWere you similarly outraged a few weeks ago when a hate-spewing
white supremacist murdered two good Samaritans aboard a train in Portland? Did
you voice your revulsion regarding the racist, vulgar diatribes published by
numerous right-wing outlets (including Breitbart News) throughout the Obama
administration? Were you appalled when the current president fostered hate and
prejudice throughout his campaign, even encouraging his minions to beat up those
who disagreed with him? Let's be honest, hate speech and polarization are
not the sole province of any ideology or political party; there is blame enough
to go around.
@patriot "This is the end result when a left wing political
party"I lean left I unequivocally condemn the actions of this
individual. However...the President, during the campaign, hinted
"2nd amendment types" might take care of Hillary Clinton if she won. The
newest Republican representative from Montana assaults a reporter election nigt
and wins. The Texas governor "jokes" about carrying a paper shooting
target "just in case he runs into reporters." A 12 year old black girl
is told by a white student that with Trump as president he can take care of her
and all other blacks. Students at a Washington School chant "build the
wall" to Hispanic classmates. There were 500-plus hate crimes reported by
minorities, women, and Muslims in the 1st two weeks after Trump's win. The
President's son says Democrats aren't human. Death threats to
journalists are on the rise. And, your own posts suggest that every problem in
the country is the fault of Democrats and that we’ll all be better off if
we stop voting for them. So, before you tell me what’s wrong
in my house, get your own in order first.
From USA TODAY 6-14-2017: "The shooting occurred on the same day
members of Congress were set to hold a hearing on legislation to deregulate
gun silencers."That's just great. Imagine how much more
catastrophic that shooting might have been if none of those GOP congressmen
could have heard the shots.Oh, that's right. Their hearing
would have been protected. It's actually being called the "Hearing
Protection Act". That is absolutely brilliant.Guns and violence
should never alter the political landscape. But what if those heroic Capitol
police officers could not have been able to identify where all those shots were
coming from if a "suppressor" had been used?
Gary O,Please expound on how healthcare policy would trigger a
shooting by a leftist Bernie Sanders supporter, and how such a violent event
would be justified.I think most people easily understand leftist
media, politicians, and entertainers who have intimated at violence towards
President Trump and Republicans could share responsibility for todays violence.
This is the end result when a left wing political party and their media push
HATE for 8 straight months against a president and his supporters. You hear the
hate on media TV -- you hear the hate on college campuses -- you hear the hate
in Hollywood -- you hear the hate in congress. Hate hate and more hate. Hate
lights the fuse of people who are already close to the edge and willing to kill.
Hate certainly lit this guys fuse and were it not for the two guns of Capitol
Police there would have been about 20 dead senators on that baseball field.
Lessons learned? I doubt it.
I guess my comment was off topic or disruptive. However in the
context of the article and situation reported my comment was; appropriate,
didn't attack anyone and if it was off topic then half of the comments that
were approved were off topic. 63 million people voted for Clinton
and one angry individual shot these individuals.How is 1 out of 63
million representative of 63 million people?
A tragic event!
@Moderate - Salt Lake City, UT"Silliest argument of the day is that
concealed carry would have "prevented" this."Your
argument is totally and absurdly wrong. The attack by the bad guy with
the gun ended when the good guys with guns shot him. If the Capital Police
protective detail was not there with Scalise, the killer would not have been
interruped by anyone with a gun until cops got there 5-10 minutes later. Unless, of course someone there was carrying a legal self defense
weapon. As some members of Congress have already noted, they are disarmed by
District of Columbia laws, which means they are also disarmed on the way to/from
work.Permit holders are not a substitute for cops, but one or more
armed victims have a much better chance of ending an attack after it starts
before the cops arrive. Why would anyone want potential victims to
The comments on this article demonstrate exactly why we have problems and
shootings these days. Civility is completely missing, replaced by name-calling,
lack of respect, snarkiness, finger-pointing, etc etc etc. At least for today we
should try harder.God bless the victims, and the heroes who
prevented a massacre.
I think it is important to tone down the hate speech coming from our political
discussions. If your side is primarily found in riots, destruction of property,
shutting down of free speech, angry violence, bombings, shootings....it's
time to evaluate your participation in a Free Republic.
Assassination attempt on Republican leadership by Bernie Sanders supporter.
Republican Whip Steve Scalise and other Republicans were practicing for a
charity baseball game when a Sanders supporter opened fire wounding five. The
security detail of Scalise likely prevented a blood bath according to Senator
Rand Paul. Sanders condemned the violence.
On June 23, 2016 at 9:48AM Senator Rand Paul tweeted "Why do we have a
Second Amendment? It’s not to shoot deer. It’s to shoot at the
government when it becomes tyrannical!”He was present at the
baseball practice. Wonder if his views have changed? In truth, this
was not one bit different than the shooting at the San Francisco UPS facility
that killed 3, or the shooting at the Charleston church that killed 8, or the
nightclub shooting that killed 50 or the 150+ mass shootings this year. An angry man - always a man - was able to get a gun and start shooting.
Since every single mass shooting involves an angry man we must
prohibit all gun ownership or possession by men. Or, at the very
least, require extensive mental health screening before men can have a gun. Very
extensive. With reviews every quarter.
"But what is the point? If you find that it was a 'deranged
leftie' does that somehow paint all Democrats or progressives in the same
light? Does that mean that this person is indicative of how Democrats think and
feel?"Obviously only the shooter is responsible for his actions,
and that it is not fair to paint all Democrats/progressives/liberals in the same
light. However, if most of these shootings are by "deranged lefties",
then couldn't that be an indication of the left's ideology?"And since you mentioned Treyvon Martin. Let me ask you. Had Treyvon been
the one with a gun, couldn't he have just as easily done the shooting and
killing and then claimed Stand Your Ground?I see no similarities
here."I brought up Trayvon Martin and Ferguson because in both
cases the media jumped to conclusions, and that was a narrative along the lines
of "unarmed black child/man murdered in cold blood". However, as the
facts came out we learned that they were killed in justifiable self defense. Not
anywhere near how the media made it sound. And to answer your question, if
ZImmerman was attacking Martin and trying to kill him, then yes he could have.
@lost in DC"because the crime happened inwaitwait waitDC!"No. It didn't. The crime happened in
Alexandria, Virginia. Just because it's a Congressional baseball team
practice does not mean it was in D.C.@sanefan"Those areas
of Maryland and Va follow all the same guidelines, laws and liberal beliefs
about gun and self protection. "Proximity of states does not
mean they follow all the same guidelines. They're different jurisdictions,
they might have somewhat similar guidelines and laws and liberal beliefs but
they won't be the exact same.
@Utah Girl - "How absurd is our culture if no one can attend an office
Christmas party, a Bible study, a college class, a concert, or visit a nightclub
without packing a gun?How absurd is it to play a softball game with
one's office colleagues and have to strap on a weapon? Is that going to be
the norm from now on?Doing any of those things should never make anyone
"vulnerable"."You are absolutely right! It would be
nice if we could all live in Mayberry. But unfortunately we don't and
because of that, we must be prepared for where ever we live. Our society
has deteriorated to the point there is no respect for other people or their
ideas. The concept of being able to disagree without being disagreeable has
Silliest argument of the day is that concealed carry would have
"prevented" this.The shooter has the first shot.The
shooter has the advantage.The shooter has already picked his targets.With armed police on site, the shooter hit 5 people.Concealed
carry would have prevented this?You'd be dead with your gun still in
President Trump has continually stated that his first priority is keeping
Americans safe, hence his issuing and defending the travel ban(s) which continue
to be litigated. Since his election, no American has been killed or injured by
any person from any of the countries included in the ban, and American vetting
procedures seem to working quite well. My question is, what efforts has the
Trump administration taken to protect Americans from their fellow citizens? I
looked up statistics on the number of citizens killed or injured due to gun
violence just since Trump's inauguration, and I quit counting at 350, and
the total certainly does not include the victims of today's violence or
those affected by the recent shootings in Sandy, San Francisco, and Orlando.
While some of these incidents were certainly related to criminal activity, many
were not and were perpetrated by citizens with no previous criminal records.
Gun violence in the U.S. has reached epidemic proportions; this problem
deserves at least as much attention as imposing a travel ban.
More importantly, this is not about the shooter, in regards to the post about
guns or "good guys with a gun." We know criminals don't obey the
laws. It's why they are called criminals. We also know that an unarmed
citizen cannot defend themselves against violent criminals. There are States,
typically dominated by liberal anti gun Democratic governments that prevent or
make it nearly impossible to get a concealed carry permit. It doesn't take
a lot of brain power to see the problem here.
Frozen, thank you for making my point. The area were this occurred is part of
the DC/Metropolitan area, Those areas of Maryland and Va follow all the same
guidelines, laws and liberal beliefs about gun and self protection. And that he
was from Illinois which also has some of the strictest, if not the strictest gun
laws in the US amplifies my point. Follow that by the Governor of VA focusing
on "too many" guns and my point and argument are right on. The question
still remains, "so how do these laws prevent such incidents/" They
don't and never will and is why one Sheriff in FL is calling on those who
live in his jurisdiction to become able to defend themselves. Case Closed.
Hey David -RE: "Do media personalities who joke about killing
the president, or having a severed head of the president, share any
responsibility for this shooting?"Gosh, I don't know,Do Republican Politicians who want to take health care away from
millions of people share any responsibility for the shooting?
"Suddenly the left wants us to not jump to conclusions?"RivCoug, Feel free to jump anywhere you want. But what is the
point? If you find that it was a "deranged leftie" does that somehow
paint all Democrats or progressives in the same light? Does that mean that this
person is indicative of how Democrats think and feel?Both sides love
to take the dregs of the other side and make them out to be the mainstream.And since you mentioned Treyvon Martin. Let me ask you. Had Treyvon
been the one with a gun, couldn't he have just as easily done the shooting
and killing and then claimed Stand Your Ground?I see no similarities
frozenWhy would anyone expect DC's gun laws to prevent this?
because the crime happened inwaitwait waitDC!
President Trumps and Bernie Sanders statement about this shoting strike the
right cord. It's unfortunate that some are choosing to use this as another
excuse to be a part of the problem not the solution. @vermontor I see your point and agree with much of what you said. I think we need to send
a clear message to people like this that violance is never acceptable and I was
happy to see the presidents and sanders statements to that effect.
Wait, wait, wait...Suddenly the left wants us to not jump to
conclusions? After Trayvon Martin and Ferguson ("Hands up, don't
shoot!"), suddenly they now care about learning all the facts before we jump
to conclusions.Speaking of facts, the one brought up by barfolomew
is very telling:"Rep. Ron DeSantis, R-Fla., told Fox News he
left just before the shooting. As he walked to his car, a man asked DeSantis if
it was Republicans or Democrats practicing. About 3 minutes later, at around
7:15 a.m., the shooting began, DeSantis said."-------@ Utah Girl ChroniclesThank goodness a good guy here had a gun,
otherwise we'd be hearing "If only those at the softball field had guns
...". Fortunately, due to those with guns the only fatality was the gunman.
Do media personalities who joke about killing the president, or having a severed
head of the president, share any responsibility for this shooting?When Jason Chaffetz held the town hall meeting in Utah where large crowds
shouted over him, there were reports of men in masks in the parking lot looking
for Chaffetz' car. Liberal posters on this site mocked such reports,
stating they were fabricated lies.Liberals have taken their
opposition to Trump's election too far. It shows today.Shame
on the Left!
Utah Girls Chronicles," . . . . Doing any of those things should never
make anyone "vulnerable". That only happens in a gun-crazed
society."____________________I agree and we need to face
reality. We’re not likely to ever solve the problem of gun violence in a
society that loves and worships firearms as much as Americans do. The Second
Amendment is our heritage, our right, and our unique American burden. For too
many Americans, gun ownership is an integral part of their identity, their ego,
@ Craig Clark"Gun violence is a pervasive problem that we have
been unable to handle in this country. Honestly acknowledging that at a time
like this is not being political. It's merely stating the obvious and I
don't care if some people don't like to hear it."First, you have to qualify your statement. It depends on how you define
"gun violence." Is it the violence perpetrated by criminals or do you
mean all gun owners? Almost without exception, these "shooters" are in
possession of their guns illegally even before they pull the trigger. Now, honestly (the operative word, here) acknowledging that we have a problem
with criminals with guns at a time like this certainly is appropriate. But,
using these incidents - as the left tends to do - to promote the agenda of gun
control IS being political. And the simple reason that those like myself who
believe in the Second Amendment "don't like to hear it" is because
it's all just a bunch of lies used to push some kind of feel-good"
@Tolstoy. @Nickeson. It is highly improper for anyone in free democratic
societies to advocate violence in support of their political agendas. Trump may have crossed the line at times. But Tim Kaine did similarly by
encouraging his supporters to "fight in the streets." Crossing the
threshold to incitement depends on how their audience reacts. But
let's try and focus on the actual crime, who committed it, and what his
motivation was, and if anyone else was involved. Let's not let
the hyper-partisanship of the moment override the concept that we should be
tolerant of and care for each other's welfare.
The point is if "where was the good guy with a gun?" angers anyone,
it's time to examine the absurdity of Wayne LaPierre's comment.How absurd is our culture if no one can attend an office Christmas
party, a Bible study, a college class, a concert, or visit a nightclub without
packing a gun?How absurd is it to play a softball game with
one's office colleagues and have to strap on a weapon? Is that going to be
the norm from now on?Doing any of those things should never make
anyone "vulnerable". That only happens in a gun-crazed
society. When anyone embraces that absurd Wayne LaPierre NRA mantra, it's
easy to shoot holes through it.
@Sanefan"The appropriate question would be, so how did DC's
strict gun laws prevent this senseless shooting? The answer, they didn't
and won't, gun laws don't apply to criminals."Why
would anyone expect DC's gun laws to prevent this? The guy is from Illinois
and the shooting was in Virginia.
@unrepentant progressive - "Assault weapons have no place in America.
Period."Please define "assault weapons" - Specifically
what weapons are you referring to?
Gun violence is a pervasive problem that we have been unable to handle in this
country. Honestly acknowledging that at a time like this is not being political.
It's merely stating the obvious and I don't care if some people
don't like to hear it.
@NickesonI don't necessarily disagree but you do realize that list
would have to include Trump and many others on "the right" as well?
unrepentant and the rest of the denying liberals the shooter had
anti-trump and anti-GOP pictures on his facebook page. There are news photos of
him carrying signs protesting the GOP, demanding higher taxes on the rich. He
volunteered for the Sanders campaign. (source - Yahoo)so unlike the
Gabby Giffords shooter, who had no political agenda - was just insane - this
shooter was politically motivated. A leftie who hated the right enough to start
shooting at them.Nickesonyou can add maher, behar, msnbc,
sorors, and the AP to your list
'After the baseball practice shooting, it is time to file appropriate
charges of inciting violence against public figures promoting violence such as:
Madonna, Kathy Griffin,Snoop Dog,the recent Washington play, the parties
encouraging violent protests at gov. public meetings and those paying violent
protesters."It might be important to include the guy who made the
comment about the second amendment people taking care of Hillary in your list of
those who promote violence. Or the one who admonished the goons in his crowd to
pound the xxx out of protesters; he'd cover the legal costs. And, are
any of those violent protester jobs still available? How much do they pay, do
you know? Maybe trump is right, he's creating jobs...
@ unrepentant progressive"ConservativesWhat part of
jumping to conclusions so early do you not understand?"Holy cow!
A liberal lecturing conservatives about, "jumping to conclusions so
early"!!Maybe this was a Russian spy sent by Vladimir Putin to
take out the congressional conservative double agents before they could spill
the beans on his involvement in the Trump-Putin conspiracy to make the USA part
of the imperialistic Russian Empire.An unidentified source told me
that, so it must be true.Another unnamed source told me that they
witnessed Scalise standing on second base with his hands up yelling,
"don't shoot!"And yet another source who spoke on the
condition of anonymity confirmed that Attorney General Jeff Sessions met with
the shooter at a hotel event in Washington D.C.
There's nothing wrong with political disagreement or peaceful protesting
but violence is completely unacceptable. I have no idea what this disgraceful
person was thinking when he did this but if he thinks he's some sort of
hero he's wrong. He's a terrorist and the lowest of the low.
@ utah Girl Unfortunately, your comment belies the liberal mantra and
misinformation about guns. DC has the strictest gun laws in the country. It is
nearly impossible to get a concealed carry permit there. I know. This is a
perfect example of how when law abiding citizens are prevented from defending
themselves the criminals will still have guns. The appropriate question would
be, so how did DC's strict gun laws prevent this senseless shooting? The
answer, they didn't and won't, gun laws don't apply to criminals.
A few things that can be brought away from this incident. First UGC
is your right, "where were the good guys with guns." A back handed
attempt at deriding a policy of gun ownership. Are we to the point that we do
need to be armed all the time?Second, given the DC areas strict gun
control laws you would think that these people at an event would be safe. Third, it is true gun control laws do not work, both guns used by the
shooter, were illegal, for him to have in his possession in the DC region. And finally, crooks, terrorists, and killers do not follow the rules.Now let us discuss how this Bernie Sanders supporter got radicalized
enough to carry out an assassination attempt.
Wow do opinions change when the shoe is on the other foot. When Rep. Giffords
was shot, the tea party was excoriated, even though there was no link. Now
leftist commenters on this thread want calm and is not to jump to
conclusions.I agree. Let's not jump to conclusions, but
don't be hypocritical.Utah Girl- thank goodness for those
there with guns. They distracted the gunman enough that there wasn't a
mass killing. Had the security detail not been there, there may have been
multiple deaths. Your arguments against guns with this recent example are
ridiculous at best.
After the baseball practice shooting, it is time to file appropriate charges of
inciting violence against public figures promoting violence such as: Madonna,
Kathy Griffin,Snoop Dog,the recent Washington play, the parties encouraging
violent protests at gov. public meetings and those paying violent protesters.
@Utah Girl: "The first thing Congress did once Trump took office was rush
into session and pass legislation to make sure people with diagnosed mental
illness could purchase guns."Benghazi was caused by a YouTube
video and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor.What's truly terrifying is that leftists actually believe these things.
Scary situation. Those trying to turn this into a left versus right thing would
do well to remember that extremist groups on both sides have recently committed
several violent and deadly crimes. Perhaps both sides should work to tone down
the rhetoric and work to stop extremist that commit such crimes rather then use
these crimes to further fuel the fire that helps create them.
In the rush to assign a political party to the shooter and to advance their gun
agendas, almost every poster today has forgotten to do what they are supposed to
do first. ---I hope that the Congressman who was struck leaves the
hospital soon and that all involved are safe with their families and are able to
recover from this nightmare. Like all good Americans I condemn this pathetic
method of lashing out. We live in troubling times and the problems we face as a
nation are not solved by bizarre, violent outbursts--but by coming together to
face difficulties that threaten every single one of us. If we make our nation a
gun toting, revenge seeking, prison yard--we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Gun violence is always tragic, senseless, and horrifying. But how
many times have there been mass shootings and the immediate NRA mandated
response is always, "If only those victims had a gun, they probably would
not have been victims"?After the school shooting at Umpqua
Community College in Roseburg, OR Donald Trump said, "Let me tell you, if
you had a couple teachers with guns in that room, you would have been a lot
better off."We have heard other such comments in the past:"If only those people at their office Christmas party had guns
..." (San Bernardino)"If only those people at their church
Bible study had guns ..." (Charleston)"If only those people
at that concert had guns ..." (Paris)"If only those people
at that nightclub had guns ..." (Orlando)Couldn't it be
said if that Congressman standing at second base had a Glock strapped to his
hip, he could have identified the shooter and taken him out?Isn't that the standard NRA defense?The first thing Congress
did once Trump took office was rush into session and pass legislation to make
sure people with diagnosed mental illness could purchase guns.How
intelligent was that?
ConservativesWhat part of jumping to conclusions so early do you not
understand?We know nothing for sure but that a middle aged white guy
from Illinois used semi-automatic weapon to shoot some Congressmen and their
aides. And that policemen on the scene to protect one of the Congressmen
disabled the shooter. That is all. Stop jumping to conclusions of
any sort. Wait for all to come out.
President Reagan was shot by a man trying to impress a movie actress.Not
everything is politically motivated. Not everything is about Trump.A lot
of comments claiming to know things before the facts are out.
Does Utah Girl Chronicles, and those who 'like' her comment,not
understand that two cops with guns shot the aggressor. The presence of good
guys with guns (cops in this case) prevented what would very likely have been a
bloodbath by the initiator. So, Utah Girl Chronicles, the good
guys with guns were there. thankfully, and stopped the problem. Your comment is
What would the reaction of Utahans be if a shooter walked into general
conference and began shooting LDS leaders and members? American's passion
with guns and our insecurities around our safety has helped create a very
violent society. What happened in Virginia this morning has become common place
in America but the irony here is many of the victims are the same ones that
support Americans rights to violent weapons that have nothing to do with hunting
or public safety.
@ unresponsive progressive"Gun violence is not a political
issue."It sure is when the assailant uses the weapon to act out
his ideology and invoke some sort of political outcome.
The political leanings of the shooter are not at issue here. We have
wacko's on both sides of the isle that do not represent the party.Left or right, no one would condone this violence.Lets all condemn
the shooter and stop trying to score partisan points with this tragedy. Geez people.
Talk about jumping to conclusions.Already, the right accusing the
left of violence against our elected leaders. Maybe, maybe not.Gun
violence is not a political issue. It is a human issue. Assault weapons have
no place in America. Period. Regardless of the voting record of the assailant.
What the AP doesn't tell you:"Rep. Ron DeSantis, R-Fla.,
told Fox News he left just before the shooting. As he walked to his car, a man
asked DeSantis if it was Republicans or Democrats practicing. About 3 minutes
later, at around 7:15 a.m., the shooting began, DeSantis said."
@conrad. Before we start going around the room blaming a lot of different
people that had nothing to do with this, how about we hold the shooter and any
knowing accomplices responsible for their actions?If you don't
like your member of congress or senators, convince your neighbors you need
somebody new, and get new representatives. That is the way democracy works. This
morning's event is entirely unacceptable in free democratic societies.
@utah Girl ChroniclesI guess you missed the point where without the
security around Rep Scalise it would of been much much worse. The security had
guns and were able to disable the gunman and take him into custody before he was
able to get too many shots off.
Utah girl-They returned fire and shot the shooter so more people
weren't hurt or killed.
This is a sad day. I hope Rep Scalise will be okay.@byu alum What
has this got to do with the travel ban?
Within 20 minutes of the Gabriella Giffords shooting the finger-pointing
began.What wild conspiracy theories will come of this?
Where was the good guy with a gun?