I am alarmed that the party in power is not taking this seriously. The constitution was written with people like the current president and his
family in mind. But it means nothing if congress is unwilling to take action.
Country over party.
The campaign's use of fifty grand for Junior to lawyer up helps the
economy. Removing the sanctions as was the design of the meeting will help the
oligarchs bottom line. They can pay for their kids to make videos with the
Partisanship is a negative place because it is blind and uncompromising.
Ideologues in these threads are not going to yield on an argument since it is
not in their interest to "compromise their beliefs". This is both from
the Far Left to the Far Right. Fortunately most people, even members of
political parties, are not so partisan that they refuse to acknowledge
reality.Donald Trump's favorables dropped from the high 40s to
the low 30s since some people have become disillusioned, disgusted, and upset
about what they see in Trump and his antics. This is aside from the fact that he
is incompetent. He continues to bluff his way through situations, continuing as
the sleaze that he's always been. From the Access Hollywood
tape, to walking in on young girls in various states of dress at beauty pageants
he controls, to being an inveterate liar even when confronted with reality,
Trump is turning out just as we always knew. He alienates all who comes in
contact with him except for the Russian oligarchs and mobsters who underwrote
his business empire over 30 years. He lacks compassion and is busy making the
United States government an essential part of the Trump Organization.
Vanceone - Provo, UTJuly 13, 2017 12:35 a.m."I read that
statute . . . Care to point out exactly how Trump Jr. broke it? He didn't
get anything of value, no contribution was made, he didn't get any dirt
from this meeting."Does anyone know what exactly went on in that
meeting? You only have what Don Jr. admitted to after days of changing his
story. Even his father chipped in and made a statement which Don Jr. used before
having to come up with another excuse. However, information has value.You were not in the meeting so you don't know what happened. Let's
get that understood. Your credibility is harmed by making such statements.We understand better what happened by following the timeline of events
that fateful June when several days before the scheduled meeting Donald Trump
said he was going to give a damaging speech about Hillary Clinton (possibly in
anticipation of what might come out of the meeting) and later making remarks
urging Russia to release Hillary's emails. Something here indicates that
information may have been obtained or interest in getting such information was
solicited by the Trump campaign. Once approval was given, we see the leaked
emails begin to emerge.
Herbert Gravy - Salinas, CAJuly 12, 2017 9:35 p.m."What
have been the "consequences" of Hillary Clinton's disgraceful
behavior while serving as Secretary of State?"Other than the
fact the Hillary Clinton isn't the issue, people on the wingnut fringe
continue to march out old shibboleths as if they are true and relevant. As a
partisan believer, it is understandable that you might seek out the old wingnut
talking points to defend your guy, but it doesn't make it any more real.With support of Donald Trump hovering just above 30%, it is worth noting
that someone needs to take away his shovel. He keeps digging the hole deeper and
deeper and only his fervent followers will climb down into the abyss with him.
Maybe they need to do this to make themselves feel validated, but most rational
people would see the writing on the wall.We hear, as a defense, the
same inane gibberish that the talking heads have developed to appeal to their
listeners. There is no factual basis in what they say. It is all propaganda,
crafted to confused low-information supporters which cannot withstand scrutiny.
And when things get really difficult, they blame Barack Obama or Hillary.
It's really sad.
Donald Trump, in an address in Paris, continues in his approach to obfuscate and
throw shiny objects to distract from the issue. Saying that "most
people" would conspire with a hostile foreign entity to get damaging
information on a political opponent is both cheap and wrong. Not only was it
illegal under federal election law, but Don Jr.'s meeting explains much
that occurred during the election with regards of how Trump Sr. handled the
leaked email controversy during the campaign.Trump makes stuff up
both as a defensive tactic and to gain an advantage. His whole speech where he
was going to reveal damaging information about Hillary Clinton was predicated on
the information his son expected to get from the Russian agent in the meeting
he, his brother-in-law, and Paul Manafort attended. When you connect the dots,
it all falls into line.Many hardcore Trump supporters find it
difficult to wean their faith away from this false prophet because either they
feel they committed themselves and are too ashamed to say they were wrong or
they live in their bubble and only believe the Dear Leader. Like Trump they
listen to opinion talking heads instead of reading the news stories.
Jared Kushner was also at this meeting. Kushner falsified his security
clearance document in not documenting any Russian contact, including this
meeting. It's Kushner who's on the legal bubble.
Vanceone - Provo, UTJuly 12, 2017 10:41 a.m."Facts: the
Ukrainian government openly, repeatedly, and for a very long time interfered
with our election."You need to stop watching Fox & Friends
for your information. Media Matters has a July 12 story on this and references
the original Politico report as well as a WaPo story (July 11) debunking your
thesis. Apparently you have it all wrong about Alexandra Chalupa, an independent
consultant working for the DNC. Her work investigating Paul Manafort apparently
preceded his involvement as Donald Trump's campaign manager.Nothing you cite is accurate and the whole story has been made into "fake
news" by wingnut talking heads in defense of the meeting with a Russia agent
by Don Jr., Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner. You need to get you facts right
because a little checking throws cold water over you claims. Any argument you
attempt to make after such statements are totally not credible.Many
of the charges against Manafort have proven to be true regarding his working for
the Ukrainian government and the Russians. This is now in the hands of Robert
Mueller and his investigative team. They will interview people and follow the
UtahBlueDevil - Durham, NCJuly 12, 2017 8:46 a.m."I really
didn't see anything wrong with Trumps comments in defending his son - as
would any father."No. A real father would tell everyone that he
loves his son, and he stands beside him in his difficulties. Then he would work
to help his son instead of conjuring up lies to put him in more jeopardy which
would have to be retracted. Don Jr. then released the email thread that proved
his collusion with the Russians to gain advantage in the election. Robert
Mueller will be busy adding this to his list for investigation.If
you look at the timeline of events during that time period in June, 2016, you
will see evidence that Donald Trump knew about his son's meeting with the
Russian agent and the topic of the meeting. This is evident in the fact that a
few days prior to the meeting, Trump announced that he would have a speech
identifying damaging "evidence" against Hillary Clinton. A week or so
later, Trump went further and asked Russia to find and release the thousands of
Hillary emails that were the center of controversy. However, Hillary's
server was never hacked so Trump had to settle for the emails of John Podesta
and the DNC.
patriot - Cedar Hills, UTJuly 12, 2017 10:36 p.m.You would
violate American law and work with a hostile foreign nation to get help with an
election? Apparently you said you would. Would that mean you would collude with
North Korea? The North Koreans are excellent at penetrating computer systems.
Maybe the Russians used the North Koreans in addition to their own people to
infiltrate and sabotage our electoral system. Russia is an ally of North Korea.
Russia sought every possible source, paying for their expertise to hack into
American election computer systems and participate in the their propaganda war
against us.Be careful aligning yourself with Russia. Russia has many
friends hostile to the United States. Becoming pro-Russian means that you accept
their allies which includes China, North Korea, Syria, Iran, and many other
countries within their sphere of influence. You may think it is OK to ensure
your candidates win, but recognize that you would be contributing to opening the
door for Russia to gain influence over other countries not currently within its
orbit.Once you do that, you may bind yourself to that nation like
Donald Trump and become an unwitting agent.
I read that statute, Stephan Daedalus. Care to point out exactly how Trump Jr.
broke it? He didn't get anything of value, no contribution was made, he
didn't get any dirt from this meeting. The only thing you could
possibly be thinking of is the "promise" bit. Yet clearly that only
applies to the actual foreign person. If receiving a promise of illegal
information was a crime, then merely sending an email to someone would get them
hauled off to jail. Spam mail is bad, but we shouldn't be jailed for
getting it.Still, it's gratifying to see you bring up that
statute. I wonder how you'd like it if we applied it to Hillary's
campaign? Surely you agree we should vigorously stamp out foreign influence
such as Hillary's campaign gleefully engaged in. I mean, you aren't a
hypocrite are you? You agree we should arrest people who, say, pushed forged
documents on a wide scale that were generated by a foreign government
specifically to influence our elections, right?
I'd do the exact same thing as Don Jr. for my dad. No question about it.
@ Frank KNo, apparently, ALL actions do NOT have consequences.
Unless we missed something.What have been the "consequences"
of Hillary Clinton's disgraceful behavior while serving as Secretary of
State?Benghazi? Illegal server? Bleachbit? Destroying evidence such
as the "pulverized" computers and other electronic devices.There should be equal justice under the law, James Comey notwithstanding.
@vanceone: "No one has yet identified any law Trump Jr. broke. It's
because you cannot."52 U.S.C. 30121
Trump's campaign slogan: "Make America Great Again!"Conservative post election slogan: "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak, er,
um, let's leave it at just two, ok?"
You know what? I'm good if we arrest Trump Jr for the crime, apparently,
of meeting with a Russian. As long as we then arrest every Democrat who's
ever met a Russian too. Surely that's fair. Same standards for both sides
and all. We'll start with Podesta, then Hillary and likely Obama.
Obama's on record as offering Putin "more flexibility"; and he
certainly did when he canceled the Keystone pipeline. That's far more
"Treasonous" than anything Trump Jr. has ever done. I named
my sources when I gave names and events: Politico, Hillary Clinton herself. No
one has yet identified any law Trump Jr. broke. It's because you cannot.
Still, let's jail him as long as we jail every Democrat who's ever met
a Russian. You leftists are ok with that in your "any
connection with Russians is treason!" bit, right?
UtahTroutStalker,I have, and I'm not fooled!Not my
fault so many are gullible.This Russian scam is easy to figure out.
Breaking News from CBS News today."President Trump said Wednesday that
Russian President Vladimir Putin would have preferred Hillary Clinton as U.S.
president instead of himself. "____________________That's
supposed to change the narrative, I guess. It’s routine for him to drop
these on us when he doesn’t like what the chatter is about at the moment.
This guy never quits.
@worf - "Again! The bitter/hateful anti Trump pied pipers, are
leading its followers to contentious, and embarrassing comments. Amazing
how some folks are so easily stirred to anger, by exaggerated, and distorted
reporting.Where's the critical thinking?"Yes Worf,
please bestow upon us some of your critical thinking. I am anxious to read what
thoughts you have on the subject.
@Vanceone - Provo, UTJuly 12, 2017 11:51 a.m."Meanwhile,
word comes out from sources such as a former UN secretary general that Russia
finances most of the environmentalist leftist groups here in the US, giving them
funds to try to stir up opposition to US fracking and oil drilling. Of course,
the reason is transparent: Russia depends heavily on fossil fuel exports. No less a person than Hillary Rodham Clinton also called out the collusion
between the environmentalists on the left and Russia. "So, then
you agree that Trump's collusion with Russia is/was problematic and we
should take actions to hold the Trump family and transition team accountable?
The trumps are neat and totally innocent and we should let Putin do whatever he
ute alumni - Salt Lake City, UT"Keep your dancing shoes off for
8. I understand they can hurt your feet.Remember Benghazi".Only in the minds of the low information, non college educated demographic
comrade. Trump is barely hanging on just months into his presidency! Continue on
with the deflection and the absolute pathetic attempts at defending all matters
regarding your supreme leader. 31%-36% approval rating and declining hourly! Put
down the Breitbart, National Enquirer, Pravda and Moskovskij Komsomolets.
Country before party comrade! When the impeachment proceedings begin we will all
here the "liberal biased media/fake news excuses". Shame comrade! Shame.
LiaKeep your dancing shoes off for 8. I understand they can hurt your
Pity America, it is disgraced by corrupt executive leadership and sustained by
deplorable cohorts. It is on the road to becoming the biggest banana republic
ever owned by the super powerful rich.
@worfRe: "Where's the critical thinking"? Quite entertaining...The words "Worf", "Trump" and
"Critical thinking" all within the same post. Thanks for the laugh
Vanceone - Provo, UTJuly 12, 2017 11:51 a.m."Meanwhile,
word comes out from sources . . . "You need to stop watching and
listening to conservative talking heads that provide opinion on your favorite
programs. Get out an read the news from professional journalists. Opinion is
fine, but it needs to be supported by facts. Not made up "facts" that
you state in your comments that we're mentions by these wingnut talking
heads like Rushbo, Hannity, and Donald Trump's favorite information source,
Fox & Friends.It is understood that Trump doesn't like the
national media that is engaged in good journalism. He will take the National
Enquirer and Breitbart over The NY Times and WaPo. Also, he loves F&F to his
own daily briefs provided by our national intelligence agencies. So it may be
that his fan base prefers what he likes to sources that require serious analysis
and verification of facts. If you have become a Russia fan recently
and believe we can be good friends, giving Vladimir Putin what he wants on the
international scene and ignoring his abuses of human rights, then own up to it
and say so. But understand that Russia may have something on Trump that he will
do their bidding.
HaHaHaHa'" . . . . Trump and many of his pals know some russians,
is that illegal? According to the major media that is immoral if not illegal. .
. . "____________________Let's not play dumb. It’s
neither illegal nor immoral so why keep bringing it up? Don't you think it
might be to skirt the critical issue that Trump and his team don’t want us
to focus on? Trump owes his election victory to Vladimir Putin. A man cannot
serve two masters and the President of the United States cannot serve the
American people to the best of his abilities if he is even in the slightest
beholden to a foreign leader who has his own national interests to advance.
That’s why our election laws strictly prohibit what the Trump campaign
obviously has flagrantly done behind the scenes which we’re now finding
out about.Sorry, HaHaHaHa, but this is nothing to laugh about.
I think there's not reason to bring up Hillary Clinton now at all. The
person in question is Trump Jr. All actions have consequences, good or bad,
this time it's all about Jr.
The only thing that could possibly be worse, that I can think of, would be
having to endure four or more years of Hillary Clinton in the White House.😁
it would seem to me from the information that the Russians may or may not have
secured was damaging to Clinton and not to Trump HRC could not have won the
election so what is all the flap about trump and collusion of a foreign
government in his winning or voter fraud for sure in the election nothing of
substance that is for sure the sun will still shine tomorrow and the statements
about global warming and every thing else that we humans are doing wrong will
continue even about Russian influence in our past election which in case we
have not noted is completed and the president is trying to get us moving
Can we just get real folks? How anxious many of us are to rush to judgement in
this instance.Donald Trump, Jr. cannot hold a candle to Hillary
Clinton and her "antics".Too bad he didn't destroy all
of his emails and smash all of his computers and other electronic devices. And
use "bleachbit" to boot.
Article: 'President Donald Trump declared Wednesday that his eldest son
was "...innocent."'The genius of the American system is
that this sort of proclamation by the nation's highest elected official is
absolutely meaningless, full stop.A jury of ordinary Americans may
be asked to consider whether or not Don Jr. violated the law.Trump
may simply be ignorant on this point, but a criminal prosecution will not render
verdict of "innocent".If prosecuted through a complete
trial, Don Jr. will be found "guilty" or "not guilty".
"Innocent" is not an option.Now, Trump could issue a
presidential pardon, so long as he does not leave office before Don Jr. is
convicted, if that were to happen.Like all busy families, the Trumps
will simply need to coordinate their comings and goings.My family
uses an online calendar to avoid scheduling conflicts and to make sure we
don't miss any important deadlines. Stuff like soccer matches, Back to
School Night, birthdays, etc.We have not yet had the need to
coordinate potential resignation or impeachment dates, and when our kids may
need pardons. Maybe when the kids get older.
Meanwhile, word comes out from sources such as a former UN secretary general
that Russia finances most of the environmentalist leftist groups here in the US,
giving them funds to try to stir up opposition to US fracking and oil drilling.
Of course, the reason is transparent: Russia depends heavily on fossil fuel
exports. Wonder what Putin thought of Trump arranging to sell US natural gas to
Poland, to wean them off of Russia? No less a person than Hillary
Rodham Clinton also called out the collusion between the environmentalists on
the left and Russia. Come on, leftists: tell us if this is also
"treason". See, this is how it works: Trump Jr talks to a so-called
"Russian Lawyer" who is a close confidante of the Obama State
Department, and that's "Treason" and "the noose is closing
in!" Hillary's documented, proven collusion with the Ukrainian
government? Crickets. The left happily accepting Russian funds to throw US oil
and gas workers out of work? Obama giving Putin a solid by canceling the
Keystone pipeline? The leftists have nothing but praise for that. Ever since Alger Hiss, if not before, you guys shill for Russia.
Does anyone really think that Trump Sr didn't know about a meeting
regarding his campaign that took place at his home involving his son,
son-in-law, and his campaign manager?
@Frank K Actually it was the New York Times that had the E Mails, Jr released
them when the Times told him they were going to publish them.
Donald Trump's lie of the moment - "My son is innocent"Sad -- Ted Cruz was right, Trump IS a pathological liar.Sadder still --
Mitt Romney was also right, Trump IS Fraud, Fake and a Phony.
The fact is that Trump Jr. was forced into publishing the emails, Julian Assange
told him that if he didn't do it someone else would, he even offered to
publish them on Wikileaks. I'm curious about this friendly relationship
more than the whole Russian collusion affaire.
Soliciting a prostitute, robbing a bank, or rigging an
election.Whether you get actually the sex, cash or election, does not 'prove' your innocence. The very fact of making
your intentions know and then acting on it - makes it criminal.The
Trumpolei cartel appears to be in quite the fix right now.Fredo may have
just played his last card.
Facts: the Ukrainian government openly, repeatedly, and for a very long time
interfered with our election. They actually literally admit they interfered
with our election process by teaming up with Hillary Clinton and the DNC.
Alexandra Chalupa, a long time member of the DNC, spent much of 2016 openly
coordinating with the Ukrainian government to forge documents that forced Trump
campaign manager Manafort to resign. The Ukranian government has admitted that
the documents used to force the resignation were forged, and were done so
specifically to hurt Trump and his campaign. This Chalupa person coordinated
with the DNC, the Clinton campaign, and also media members such as Isikoff. All of this was reported in January in Politico. The Ukrainian embassy
admits they interfered with our election on Hillary's behalf. Names, dates,
people. Further, the "Russian Lawyer" that met with Trump
Jr. is a pawn of the Obama administration and can be seen sitting with the State
department during Congressional Testimonies. With everyone screaming
about Trump Jr, why is there radio silence on Hillary's proven collusion
with foreign governments?
Over a year ago when the bold and well oiled obama regime was protecting us from
all things russian, (except when they were making fun of mitt romney over his
statements about russia) who would have imagined all this collusion with them? I
keep forgetting that we know there was collusion, but we haven't found it
yet. Funny how a different investigation standard applied to hitlary and bho
when it comes to the major media and their hawkish approach to public officials
and allegations against them. Apparently Trump and many of his pals
know some russians, is that illegal? According to the major media that is
immoral if not illegal. I know some russians, is that illegal? Are we going to
get to the bottom of this before the next presidential election cycle? I'm
betting no. Mostly because this is all a witch hunt, and a lot of noise about
nothing. It's also very likely that Trump is playing the media, and putz
congressmen like schiff from california. That guy is a total fool. So far he
has outsmarted them in every move, and its funny.
The E Mails Jr released clearly state Jr knew he was meeting with a
representative of a hostile foreign government that wanted to interfere with our
election. Amazing how some folks totally ignore this. Critical thinking is
certainly called for.
Now we see Trump defending his 'son'... wait, I thought he was a
'qualified public servant'.Funny how nepotism works. I
can't wait for the Presidential pardon to come.Trump and his
minions are beyond logical belief. I'm amazed that anyone, well any real
American, can rationalize or defend their behavior. They saw the Russians and
their influence as an option to achieve power. There is no witch
hunt or fake news. There's information Trump does not want his low
educated voters/base believing. He continues to tell them the "Earth is
flat" and they continue to believe it. Ignorance is bliss.I
feel sorry for legitimate main stream GOP members who can't figure out what
to do. Support Trump and sell their soul... or call Trump out and risk being
the topic of one of his ludicrous tweets.Conservative thought/policy
is lost in the quagmire of Trumpism.
Defending his son's conduct, the president again dismissed the ongoing
Russia investigation as the "greatest Witch Hunt in political history."
____________________Trump is amazing when he goes on calling it a
witch hunt after the most incriminating evidence so far has come from his own
@worf - McAllen, TXJuly 12, 2017 9:46 a.m.Again! The
bitter/hateful anti Trump pied pipers, are leading its followers to contentious,
and embarrassing comments. [I'm not so much anti Trump, as I am
anti evil. Calling Trump out for all his perpetual lies and crude behavior is
the right thing to do -- defending him, ignoring, supporting him for it, and
enabling him is wrong, and THAT is what is truly embarrassing.]Amazing how some folks are so easily stirred to anger, by exaggerated, and
distorted reporting.[ We had 8 YEARS of this from the Obama-haters
and FoxNews network devoted to this 24/7/365 x 8]]Where's the
critical thinking?[OK - How is this: If this was President
Hillary Clinton, and all these lies, and Russians, and lies, and daily
twitter wars, and more lies, and Firings, and NATO, giving up China Global
leadership, G-20, the Russians, and more special Investigations, etc. etc.
etc..... --- -- then please YES, I whole hearted agree -- Where is the
Again! The bitter/hateful anti Trump pied pipers, are leading its followers to
contentious, and embarrassing comments. Amazing how some folks are
so easily stirred to anger, by exaggerated, and distorted reporting.Where's the critical thinking?
The Donald should have said, the witches have been released and had the special
investigator alert the hunters. There is a problem with over the top flamboyant
made for twitter bombastic statements, especially in situations such as this
You know Robert Mueller is licking his chops with this little tidbit of
information. The Trump family is beginning to remind me of the Romanov family
in Russia. Hopefully the Trumps experience a better outcome.
Witchhunt?1. It never happened. Fake news from liberal media.2. It
happened, but nothing of value was gained and we talked about
"adoptions".3. Okay, maybe it shouldn't have happened but
even if it did happen, it's not that big a deal. 4. Donald Jr. is new
at this. Quit being so mean to him!5. Bengha-----oh. Never mind.
I really didn't see anything wrong with Trumps comments in defending his
son - as would any father. But Trump's continued assertion that this is a
"witch hunt" is becoming a bit tiresome, and really hard to defend. We
now have a broom, a caldron, a book of spells.... we just haven't figured
out who the witches are. We know that Don Jr. thought he was meeting with one
of them....The question here isn't did the Russians seek to
impact the last election, and if Trump campaign was willing to work with the
Russians to win the election. The emails Don Jr. released settle that debate.
What is left is why the Russians did what they did, how far did it go, and how
do we prevent it from happening in the future.We now know there was
a witch.... we just aren't sure what the witch was doing and why.
While decrying the witch hunt, the trump clan continues to provide us with an
endless supply of witches to hunt. Trump's odd description of people
including his children as 'high quality' speaks to how he sees people
not unlike inanimate objects, ones to which no humanity need be extended.
The nation and world will dance in the streets the day a trump or associate can
no longer embarrass us all...they day they vacate the White House--Who
cares what they do in their own private business environment...