@USALover, Little Bro, don't appreciate the talking down to
and the rudeness. So you are coach or something at BYU. Come on... The honor
code is not the sole source of their trouble. They cannot even recruit the best
LDS players.... You know a couple of Duke players....
How in the world is Rose getting a pass from everyone. Let's blame
everyone but him seems to be the logic here. He created the culture and the so
called status quo. It's his head that should be on the block. Ask the players. He is an absent coach. He does not know his players and
does not engage with his players. He is the problem and not the players or the
honor code or the staff.
@Cougar_Trojan_Spurs_Fan - San Diego, CAApril 19, 2017 9:58 a.m."The difference between two players voluntarily transferring and the coach
revoking the scholarships of three players is that the two who left on their own
did not want to be there while the three who lost scholarships wanted to be
there but had lost their standing due to poor play, etc. I think two try and
compare these two situations as apples-to-apples is short sighted and
inaccurate. Yes, it is alarming that anyone is leaving the team. But the
circumstances are not the same."------------Why do you
assume their scholarships were revoked?"A source shared with me
that guard Steven Beo, forward Jamal Aytes and guard Davin Guinn won’t be
back next season."Maybe Guinn wants to go to law school. Beo
may have asked to be let out to go somewhere for more playing time and Rose
accommodated. Aytes has had 4 years to prove himself, yet always disappointed.
Yet he was still given 4 years of free school.I have issues with
Rose not holding his players accountable on the court but have no issues with
this. A scholarship is a 1 year commitment with 3 or 4 option years.
Here is a novel idea. In the next few weeks, in fact, during the entire off
season, why doesn't Rose and whoever else he calls a coach, work on
actually trying to develop some specific skills with some of the players. Why
not work Dastrup hard so he could serve as a double post with Mika? If he wants
Haws to be a point man, why not help him develop the skills to be the best. We already know that off season practice works if a player wants it to.
Look at the results Mika had when he decided to work on his FT shooting. The
problem is I do not think Rose or anyone associated with the BYU coaching staff
has the skills, knowledge, desire or willingness to help the players they
recruit.Even Mika could benefit from someone who would help him with
his footwork in the paint and around the basket. He could learn the finesse
needed to become a great player. Look what happened to Kareem when he was a
freshman. The NCAA banned the slam dunk. He was forced to change his game. He
developed the sky hook and amazing footwork to become one of the greatest. Of
course John Wooden knew how to coach.
I have read every comment on this thread and not one comment addressed the
problem of recruiting great talent, only to see them go on missions. For a
coach, this has to be very disruptive. Think about Seljaas. He was great as a
freshman, but then he left on a mission and the coach had to integrate others,
mostly RM's with two years of rust. On a football team, it isn't as
noticeable, but with the limited number of players on a basket ball team, it is
more difficult. I also think it may be disruptive for the players, as well.The honor code is not an issue like some think it is. All you need to
do is read today's article on football players Hernandez and Pita. Pita
and Hernandez were considered two of the top three tight ends in the nation.
They were both drafted one spot from each other. Pita went on a mission, lived
the honor code, was an eagle scout, and went to church. Hernandez went to bars,
got into fights, did drugs, and committed murder. Today, Pita has a 5 year $32M
contract, while Hernandez hanged himself in prison. The bb program struggles
because of missions, not honor the code. Would I change it? Nope!
@talkischeapNot, perhaps. Without question. Nobody can really
understand that recruiting for BYU is becoming increasingly and exponentially
more difficult, unless they are put in the position of actually recruiting to
BYU------------Ummm....can you qualify that statement?
Recruiting in football has been pretty consistent that past 10 yrs or so with a
spike here and there (see 2009 recruiting class). We generally finish in the
60's in team rankings (on Scout.com) without too much variance.In Bball we actually have had improved recruiting classes in the last few
years (post-Jimmer) and even had back to back top 40 recruiting classes with a
total of 6 ESPN top 100 players on the roster this season. When has that EVER
been the case at BYU before?There doesn't appear to be much
evidence to support your statement. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
@JohninslcAfter coog fans bagged on Coach K for 2 transfers, I
can't wait to see their outcry for Rose losing 3 and apparently forgetting
how to coach.--------------You must be new around here
or maybe you were away travelling in Antartica for the last 6 months? Have you
not read any message boards on that subject??? Rose has been getting grilled
since the loss to UVU for losing transfers and not having any experienced and
reliable bench players. He's also been getting grilled since
the UVU game for his inability and also his assistant coaches to hold current
players accountable for playing selfish basketball and not giving effort on the
defensive end of the floor.
@ConradGurchBest case scenario for BYU is to drop down to Division
II-------------Yes, ute fans such as yourself would love
that. Then maybe the utes could finally be the most popular team in their own
market.As for the absurd suggestion of dropping down to DII, how
will that change anything. You'd still have the same issue regarding the
Honor Code. Did you read a survey somewhere that said D1 athletes don't
like the Honor Code but DII athletes do? LOL!I'm pretty sure
people are still people and if D1 athletes overall don't want to live the
Honor Code then BYU will run into the same issue with DII athletes.Dream On ute fan!
To all those who've posted above about the problems of recruiting w/the
Honor Code.... I've just got done reviewing my Scout.com rating of
football recruiting classes. BYU is in the Top 25.Is the Honor Code
a limiting factor in recruiting? Sure it is. But if BYU would just get the
best LDS players to show up, which isn't always happening now, things would
be instantly better, talent-wise.As for the coaching - well,
that's a comment for another day.
"Sorry folks but why would you want to come to BYU with the honor code in
place?"I went to BYU with the Honor Code in place. And I would
do so again.I spent some time in the UNLV dorms. I was dating a
girl who was an RA there. The environment there compared to BYU? No
comparison. I would never want to live in a situation like that. Even my
girlfriend, who was not a member of the Church, was uncomfortable with a lot of
the stuff that goes on in such places. I would give some details, but I doubt
some of the stuff I saw would be appropriate for this forum.There
are a lot of parents who are uncomfortable sending their kids to such places.
Unfortunately, those parents are becoming less common as our society becomes
more permissive. But BYU certainly should appeal to a ton of families out there
as a safe place to send their kids to college, regardless of religious
affiliation.No, it's not for everybody. But I wouldn't
change it.I would, however, change the overzealous attitudes of some
students who think it is their job to enforce the honor code.
I think a few commenters are missing the point. The difference between two
players voluntarily transferring and the coach revoking the scholarships of
three players is that the two who left on their own did not want to be there
while the three who lost scholarships wanted to be there but had lost their
standing due to poor play, etc. I think two try and compare these two situations
as apples-to-apples is short sighted and inaccurate. Yes, it is alarming that
anyone is leaving the team. But the circumstances are not the same.And I do agree with all of the previous posters who said that defense needs to
become a priority. Offense wins games but defense wins championships. Well, in
the case of BYU this past season, our lack of offense and defense lost us games.
If you can't score, you at least need to keep the other team from scoring.
BYU fans need to lower their expectations. Sorry folks but why would you want
to come to BYU with the honor code in place? BYU will not be able to recruit
the talent they need to get to the next level in Football & Basketball.
They will have some decent years here & there in both sports but the
expectations need to come down! Best case scenario for BYU is to drop down to
@eastern cougListen, bro, if you don't think that BYU's
honor code is a hindrance to open recruiting then nobody on this comment thread
can help you understand it.It's real and it's BIG.
I don't know if I would go after the assistant at NCSU. Don't know if
you watched any NC State games this past year. But there was not much defense
I've already commented on this thread, but I'd like to clarify: I
think Haws & Emery are talented. Haws wasn't coached well, too often
he wasn't corrected when he'd drive the lane, jump & throw the
ball to a guy not open. I had no problem with his shot selection; he's a
fine shooter. His threes started comeback v. Zags. Emery forced long shots
sometimes when not open, but shot selection can be coached. Rose just
doesn't do it well. Overall, I think Emery's solid; he's just
short. LJ Rose--couldn't shoot, but started, & opponents got away w/
ignoring him. All players need same chance to develop confidence in their
shots, but Rose doesn't identify which shots his players can hit, &
help them develop confidence in a variety of shots. Our guards shoot from 22
ft. or from 5, but seldom in between. In this year's film you'll see
200 times when we passed up short pull-up jumpers in favor of driving down into
heavy traffic. I was thrilled when Mika hit a 16-footer from the free throw
line after Karnowski sagged off him & put us up by 2, & I hoped others
would notice & do same, but season was almost over. Defensively, we
get killed by drive & kickout 3s repeatedly. Coaching.
If we are going to believe that stuff about the honor code being a deterrent for
recruiting good players, then BYU should apply for admission to the WAC for BB
only. That way even with the LP2, not counting Mika because he is better than
the LP2, BYU could win the championship every year, even with Rose coaching, and
get an automatic bid to the show. Of course it would be a one and done bid, but
look what it would do for Rose's resume. People already make a
big deal over the 300+ wins he has generated at BYU, even though at least 40 %
of those wins came against WAC or worse schools.Whoever coaches at
BYU needs to recruit players who keep their poise. If the team gets down a few
points, they don't go crazy and start throwing the ball up from midcourt.
They need to stay in their game. I was going to say game plan, but I do not
think they have one. But Mika, to keep poise, would need to stay within himself
and keep control of his emotions. If Emery were playing the defense he can
play, with the Y down a few points, he would need to continue to play tough
defense instead of starting to throw the ball at a basket he cannot see. I saw
him do that more than once last year.
I love this thread. The usual cast of characters that bust on all things Utah;
are busting on there own program. Classy, very classy indeed.
I hope you are joking about getting rid of Emery and keeping Guinn. Guinn tried
hard and had one decent game in that 1-3-1 zone. The rest of the time he looked
like a little kid running back and forth in a display of lack of knowledge on
how to play the point man on that defense. I liked his effort but he certainly
needs to go. I'm disappoint Beo is leaving. I think he could have been a
good athlete. I wish he had shot more but seemed to lack confidence. I just
hope Coach comes up with a point guard. Anyway hopefully things will get
better. It isn't as bad as everyone seems to think in my opinion.
I am confused by the contradictory comments regarding Football and
basketball.byu can recruit 80+ players for football and as we all
know they are the best of the best. But the basketball team can't recruit
a dozen?I wonder.....
@talkischeap - I listened to my uncle and his troubles recruiting the football
secondary...back in the 1980s. It was tough then and has only gotten harder
today to recruit top tier athletes to BYU.
Not sure what Quincy Lewis from Lone Peak brought to the bench, other than
having coached everyone on the team in high school.Gotta get a
defensive coach, BYU has, for too many years, just tried to run and gun and
outscore everyone else.
The men's volleyball team doesn't seem to have any problems recruiting
foreign talent. Currently have players from Germany, Bulgaria, Finland and just
signed a player out of Brazil. I don't think the honor code is as big a
deal as people are making it.
If Rose has received any message since the season ended, it is that he needs a
cultural change on several fronts in his program.-------------------Steve Cleveland has affirmed this on BYU SN as
well. According to him, Rose has finally reached a point he's not willing
to tolerate the status quo. If that's true then imo saying goodbye to
Nashif should only be the first move. When Rose's program was
growing in the 2000's he had assistant coaches who were desired and sought
out by other programs. Many went on to HC opportunities like Dave Rice, John
Wardenburg and Mark Pope. Some assistants like Walter Roese eventually landed
gigs with a Big 10 school. The thought that Nashif and Lacomb have been
assistants since 2007 and haven't been named as a potential candidates or
pursued by colleges for other jobs is pretty compelling. I'm
waiting to see the other shoe drop before I believe 100% that Rose is ready for
a culture change. I don't think kicking more bench players off the team is
the answer (that was a problem with this years team). if you always do what
you've always done, you'll always get what you've always
gotten.Change starts at the top.
Oh I and don't buy into the non mormon recruiting excuses- we can't do
it because nobody is worthy and wants to live the standards. We could not even
get the best LDS players in the county in some cases in recent years. Remember?
A couple of guys went to Duke. Just don't buy the argument all. Plenty of
good kids that would want BYUs standards, but what do I know.
Just a couple of thoughts. I think Mika will be back and the team has a chance
to be great next year if they can get their defense ramped up and recruit a
couple of athletic guards who can shut people down. Some reasons I am
optimistic are: 1) Elijah Bryant and Yoeli Childs- two guys who showed huge
upside. I am especially excited about them. 2) Rose seems to know that he
needs to change things on the defensive side. 3) I still believe Emery has the
talent on defense and offense to make a meaningful contribution- he needs to
regain his freshman magic., 4) All LP3 can be less selfish after playing a year
together in terms of the LP3. Personally I thought Mika was great and the best
player on the team most of the time, but also had selfish streaks at times,
which put the team back in certain games. I think he will be back. 5) I am
excited about the new recruits out of high school. The 260 lb kid out of Idaho
is a beast. We will be fine. The RMs will be back including Seljass. He can
be good too. We will be good underneath next year. And I like Kaufusi- never
given the chance. Super athletic compared the other centers in my opinion.
The bottom line is that a culture change is needed at BYU. Early in Rose's
tenure he coached good defensive teams, they were among the best in the MWC in
holding opponents to low shooting pcts and holding scoring in the low 60's.
They valued each possession, took care of the ball and worked each
possession on offense to get a good, open shot and everybody helped on defense.
They weren't amazing athletes but they played together and they were all
committed on D.During the Jimmer years the culture changed to one of
funneling the offense through one guy, forcing crazy shots, and allowing
offensive stars to conserve energy on defense. We became wasteful with
posessions and focused on outscoring teams instead of stopping them. That worked
with a once-in-a-generation shooter like Jimmer paired with a defensive whiz for
a backcourt mate (Jackson Emery). It hasn't worked since.Part
of that culture change starts with the coaching staff. The speed of the leader
determines the rate of the pack. We don't need "nice guy" assistant
coaches letting the players get away with sloppy play, slacking on defense,
selfish shot selection. There needs to be more accountability.
Why is Beo leaving? As far as I can see there is no reason for him to leave?
First off, good article Dick. Secondly, you were too light on Coach Rose.
He, and only he, is responsible for his players and other coaches. If either
aren't doing their job, you aren't doing your job. I've posted
all year Coach Rose is a nice guy, but nice guys finish last and he needs to go.
When you lose to a 9 win Pepperdine team or San Diego it's time to step
down. If you find players worthy to play on your team, don't stock up with
DIII players then dump them after a year. That's bad form for a LDS school.
Speaking of motivating, start making Dastrup push back from the dining room
table and drop 30 pounds and get into playing shape.
@ USAloverYES! YES! YES!
Guinn has to go. Can hustle and play defense but he is a poor shooter. Lets
find a shooter and teach him to play defense, if there is a teacher of such on
the staff. Beo does not have the talent for improving this team in the future.
Luke Worthington. Pull his scholarship and find someone with a talent around the
basket because the talent we have around the basket will be gone.Cohesiveness was a big problem and working hard to get open with tight screens
and crisp passing to the open man did not exist. I don't see a better year
in 2017-18 either. If Rose coaxes Kuffauci back on the team we have big
I agree with many who post here that recruiting at BYU is getting harder since
so many do not even believe in an honor code and will not adhere to any code
that requires living a clean life. Those are they types that will end up
playing at other schools including the u.BYU needs to stay the
course and maintain their standards rather than cave in to the pressures of big
money and at ANY cost. We have seen this already happen at the u.
The bottom line is that Dave Rose and his staff have to upgrade the talent
levels for BYU to be more successful. Dominating recruiting in Utah County
won't get the team to the NCAA tournament.Emery and Haws would
be 6th or 7th men on most NCAA tournament teams. They'd be coming off the
bench to attempt a few three pointers when needed. Relying on them as starters
and "stars" shows how far BYU is below the heavyweights.
Defense. The conversation starts and ends there.White guys with
average/good quickness, speed and size need to be taught how to play defense
against better athletes. It can be done and BYU has done it in the distant
past. Schroyer was a good bring-up. Harmon. Nashiff was the
scapegoat on a team that averaged 90 points. And in BYU fashion they say he
left to pursue other interests. Whatever...Either way, the
insider's word is that LP3 are infighting and the love-loss is for real.
It's a shame because none of them is NBA quality and their delusions of
grandeur created by an excellent HS experience has tainted their aspirations.
They should do something special in college TOGETHER and make the required
sacrifices to do it. Then all three should go play in Europe...or get hired at
I don't have facts to back this up, but it feels like the number of players
BYU loses (either school choice or player choice) is much lower than average.
But I am disappointed we're possibly losing Beo. He seemed like he could
develop into a great player by his Jr / Sr year.Since Mika is not on
any 1st round NBA draft boards, and only a couple of 2nd round draft boards, I
hope he'll be back for at least one more year. Also, hoping that Bryant
will get healthy and stay healthy. A starting line-up with Mika, Childs,
Seljaas, Emery, Bryant should be able to make some noise. Haws can add spark
off the bench, along with Dastrup and Shaw. Dastrup was a much better player in
HS, and I'm assuming it was mission legs that impacted him. Expecting to
see a big improvement from him next year.As for AC, has Dave Rice
found anything yet, after UNLV?
Why do people keep bagging on the players from Lone Peak? How will they all turn
out? I think we've seen the strengths and weaknesses this year however all
3 were top 100 kids out of high school. Interestingly, Mika was the most lightly
recruited of the three. I don't care where a kid is from. If he's a
top 100 player, I want him on my team. Is it panning out like people expected?
Nope. Payton Dastrup was also a top 100 recruit and he sure hasn't shown
much. It's hard to project how a player will turn out. Who saw Jimmer as
one of the best college scores of all time? Would any of us have picked Jimmer
our of high school instead of Hawes, Mika, Dastrup or Emery? Not one of us. So
the luke warm BYU fans who criticize BYU for recruiting top 100 players need to
tone it down and think it through. If the criticism is directed toward the lack
of development of those players, then you've got something I would love it
if coach Rose yanked a kid as soon as he didn't give effort on the
defensive end. It would cause him to think really hard while he is on the bench.
That kind of lack of coaching needs to be questioned, not getting the best
recruiting classes in the history of BYU basketball
My two cents...This new hire for the AC position is critical for BYU
and the program. Dave Rose turns 60 this year. I wouldn't be surprised to
see him retire in three years. The new AC needs to be someone who can take over
the program seamlessly when this happens. That means he needs to be an active
LDS church member with a solid track record in coaching. It'll be
interesting to watch this play out.
Not recruiting foreign players is a big mistake. It's the coaches fault for
not doing this. Coaches need to be accountable when players leave. Is it the
coaches or players fault? Fans deserve to know and Steps taken to improve the
team. Those players mentioned leaving should leave. They just don't have
the talent for this level. Why were they ructited? What's left are good
quality players and we need great talent additions. We need backups that are
good as the starters .
Opinions are like bellybuttons.Everybody's got one.😁
LOL - Where did this delusion begin that BYU has some storied basketball program
that should be playing in the Final Four on a regular basis.Truth is
BYU is what it has always been, an average basketball program. In the 70 + year
history of the NCAA tournament, BYU has made 29 appearances and only had a first
round win 9 times. They have only made it past the second round twice, and they
have the distinction of most NCAA tournaments and never making a final four. Rose is probably the best this program can get. Fans should relax and
just expect plenty of first round exits and a sweet sixteen every 30 years or
I am outraged that there is not any outrage about turnover with our mens bball
team! We attack Utah when they have players leave but are silent when the
exodus is from our program. Multiple players and coaches leave....crickets.Hypocrites we are.
Nicely done, Dick. By the comments, you know you hit this one on the head. I
was impressed by the knowledgeable comments of "Talkischeap" -- a BYU
coach's wife. I think she is absolutely right. That is why when BYU gets
some really talented LDS kids, and a couple skilled non-LDS who are willing to
come -- like they have now -- coaching becomes the difference maker. And
Rose's staff was/is not up to the task. They are all "home-grown"
without experience in other programs. That is fine if you're home grown at
Duke, UNC or Michigan State, where the HC has multiple Final Fours and
championships. Pope was not home grown, played in a great national program, and
learned how to coach from others, but he wanted to be a head coach -- good for
him. Where was his replacement from? BYU. It takes a really good coach to get
hotshot high-school scorers to sacrifice body and scoring to play defense.
Emery tried this past year, as did Mika, but 2 guys playing D is not enough.
Dick is right -- this is Rose's biggest challenge yet. Can he find a
non-home-grown assistant coach to really help, and can he get these hotshots to
play D and care more about team than self.
Why do so many present their opinion as fact. We simply do not know and if
someone on here is privy to inside information, then they are probably violating
a trust. So my opinions:HAWS. Why the hate? I wonder if some commentators
even watched games. Haws had a hard time adapting to college basketball but I
never saw him come across as a ball hog. I do remember during the Gonzaga upset
that at the end he was in control of the ball and he passed of every time.ROSE. I know coaching is a "what have you done for us lately?"
profession but Rose has earned much more respect than so many malcontents give
him.MIKA. I watched his play this year while evaluating whether he was
good enough to leave for the NBA. I think he may develop the talent but is not
yet there, particularly with quickness. He could develop in the NBA or overseas
but I believe another year of polishing his game in college will be worth it.And lastly, I think next year will be good, perhaps great, and I am looking
forward to it. GO COUGS!!
I'd pull Emery's scholarship first and keep Guinn.Haws' scholarship would also be in question.These 2 are not
team players - never have been, never will be.
Watch any of BYU's games against Gonzaga or St. Mary's and count the
number of passes once the offense crosses midcourt. I did one game, but it was
so depressing that I quit the analysis. Three passes and a shot is taken.
Drive down the lane and have no one to pass to. The offense is horrible. I
can't believe they draw those plays up because they don't look
planned. A few passes and launch a shot. And the players are not held
accountable for such horrible play.BYU needs to somehow get coaches
outside of the 'home schooled' atmosphere of BYU. With respect to
players. How many of the final 16 teams have players that would be willing to
sign on for the Honor Code and high academics? Even the top 32. Therein lies
the 'elephant' in the room. The culture at BYU simply isn't one
most elite players, outside of Utah, are willing to deal with. Mika was the
exception. I'm sure he bolted after he saw what his future was at BYU and
the basketball program.
There were many times I asked out loud while watching games... Why are you
there? What are you looking at? Where were you on help? Why are you giving
such a cushion? Here goes the ball to the corner of death... can anyone guard
the corner?Yes, those were all defensive questions repeated over and
over throughout the season. Hoping for answers to those questions
next year. Poor, poor defense most of the time.
From where I sit, any new coaches BYU hires should have a proven track record of
teaching disciplined defense. I also agree that BYU should try to recruit more
in Europe, Australia, etc. BYU has a lot to offer to kids who want
to be in a more conservative environment. In our time that means a
smaller pool of potential players to recruit from, and it no doubt will require
some new and creative approaches to pull it all together.I have said
it before and I'll repeat it again - if Coach Rose doesn't show some
better achievement with the team next year, his future beyond that should be
BYU fans sometimes need to take a chill pill. Look at the winning percentages
of the BYU basketball coaches in the past 100 years. Guess who is on top? That
would be Dave Rose. We could be like Texas and run out Coach Mack and they are
still suffering. A top notch coach can have a bad year. St. Mary's and
Gonzaga would be top notch teams this year in any league. This past
season was frustrating. Losing Coach Pope for some reason I suspect hurt us. I
guess we need to figure out if a shake up is warranted. Introspection is always
good. Losing Mika would be rough next year, so the BYU fan in me
hopes he doesn't get drafted. I don't think you can replace him. If
he stays, BYU has a great shot at the NCAA's, if he goes it gets immensely
harder.Rose had an awesome run there with Fredette and Carlson etc.
Hopefully he can find those next stars. The bench seemed particarly weak this
I guess no one in these comments remember that BYU beat Gonzaga and was one of
only two teams who did so last season. I give them credit for that!However, that effort was not ever consistent. To me, that is a huge problem
with this basketball team. I was always amazed and disappointed in watching them
how one player would try to "save" the game and tried to make baskets
every time the ball was in his hands. That selfish playing has to stop. The best
teams work together for the best shot.Defense, defense, defense!
That's who the next hire needs to be. Is Lewis doing his job? Nobody talks
about him. Maybe, they need to do so!
The main thing with Haws starting every game is everyone on the team knows he is
not the best player for the position. The main reason for the three named
players transferring is probably because they did not get the playing time they
deserved or they see no future for things to change at BYU as long as Daddy Haws
is in control. Favoritism destroys moral, whether in the business world or in
sports. Believe me, everyone on the BYU basketball team know who the better
players are and they know Haws was not one of them.
Dave Rose is the next one who needs to pack his bags and hit the road. I
wonder if he read the story about how Coach Few from Gonzaga gets the good
players. He promotes his off season player development program. I bet Rose has
never thought of such a thing let alone heard about it.I said many
time before and it is worth repeating: If you keep on doing what you have been
doing, you will keep on getting what you have been getting. If you do not like
what you have been getting, you have to change what you have been doing. This
is a message to Mr. Holmoe because Mr. Rose will not change.Some how
Daddy Haws needs to be removed from the program and let the coaches decide what
is best for the team.There are plenty of LDS athletes who are very
good and who would rejoice in the honor code, but do not want to come to BYU
because they see no NBA future past BYU. Rose needs to go and until
he does, expect the same results from the past few years.
Rose should have been given his walking papers at the end of the season and sent
off to some cushy assignment. The problems start and end with him. BYU will have
another lack luster season next year and then he'll be gone. About 2 years
too late to effect any opportunity for the exceptional talent at BYU to have any
Not sure Heath Schroyer's a good hire. I doubt it. Hasn't been
successful anywhere since leaving Y. Harmon doesn't mention that fact,
& assumes that just because some BYU folks deemed him a defensive
specialist, he's today an effective coach. Why? Harmon &
others, why let Rose off the hook? Why suggest he needs better players, new
asst. coaches, harder play from team, & to "change the culture",
w/o saying that Rose needs to coach better? Nashif isn't leaving because
he wants to; he wasn't given a choice. But remember, whenever BYU called
timeout when the offense struggled, Nashif drew up the play. If Nashif
wasn't doing well enough, why didn't Rose intervene, assume
responsibility, and do it better? Rose approach: get Fredette types, & let
'em freelance. See, e.g., '15-16 w/ Fischer, Emery & Seljaas. And why do so many good players leave, & do better elsewhere?
Because Rose doesn't see their strengths & develop them, as Saint
Mary's does w/ equal or lesser talent. Beo-- case in point. If Rose told
him to take every 15 ft. jumper he gets, instead of passing to Lone Peak guys,
he could have helped more. He's not bad on D. Now Rose'll cut him.
Rose can hire a defensive coach but that won't help until he backs them up.
Lewis was in charge of defense this year but he had no power as Rose let Haws
and Emery do what they wanted. Haws was disappointing and needs an attitude
change. Not enough team and too much individual play. I'm not surprised
Mika wants out as he plays hard just for others to let him down. Rose must
demand defense first. Hire whomever you want but it won't help until Lone
Peak HD realizes they were only great in high school. Recruiting needs a
massive overhaul especially when you look at the bench players. Nobody had a
chance to impact
I agree with Talkischeap. In an increasingly secular society, BYU is a tougher
sell. It's nice to talk about Europe, South America or wonder why we
don't have the Australian connection St. Mary's does, but it is just
not that simple. It is easy to blame Dave Rose for having players leave the
program, but in reality we should remember some players seek academic
opportunities unavailable at the Y. Some, obviously, are unhappy with the lack
of playing time. Some may have honor code troubles. Others may be detrimental to
team chemistry. We may not want to think about these things, but it is the
reality a basketball coach at BYU faces.I support our team. I always
hope next year is better than last year, but I think Coach Rose and his team do
an amazing job.
If a scholarship is pulled, does the player still have to sit out a year before
playing for his new school?If Guinn can play right away, his hustle
as well as his aggressive approach would be a great fit for anyone looking for
those two qualities...even if it was only for 1 year.
With Mika going pro, the cougs are in trouble...
A honest and transparent article by Dick Harmon. The program has been in a
tailspin the past few years and has hit rock bottom. I am not a fan of the Lone
Peak pipeline with the exception of Eric Mika. Not convinced that hiring their
high school coach Quincy Lewis was a good move for the program either. Coach
Schoyer always said offensive wins games but defense wins championships. Still
not over the UVU loss and many others where little defense was played and the
will to compete was no where to be seen. Hoping the tough decisions will be made
and the program can compete again!
I read somewhere that Guinn is graduating and has been accepted into the JD
program. This is the same program that prohibits its students from
participating in athletics, which is why we lost Jordan Chatman last year.
I hope these players knew that their scholarships were not permanent. Beo was a
last minute addition; Guinn was lightly regarded but earned his scholarship;
Aytes never measured up . Still, I hate to see players have their
scholarships pulled. Seems like BYU owes them and it is BYU fault for not
recruiting well. In addition to all these changes, maybe coach Rose
can show that he is willing to discipline his players and hold them accountable.
That means bad shots, turnovers, and unnecessary rough play. Been a while since
that occurred as well.I guess we will see that the next two months
If Rose has received any message since the season ended, it is that he needs a
cultural change on several fronts in his program.-------------------That's Dick's best article in years.
Well said and no sugar coating.I hope that Rose isn't finished
shaking up his staff. Nashif was a much more experienced assistant than Lacomb
(he never even played college bball). Yes, I get he's nice and the players
like him, but the bulk of Lacomb's experience has all been with the same
coach and team. What does he bring in the way of differing experiences, network
of contacts, working in different systems w/different schemes, etc? What he
knows is what he learned from Rose. It doesn't appear to add value to the
coaching staff.There are a lot of options out there for hungry,
eager assistant coaches who are driven to make a name for themselves and are
very motivated to get results on the court more so than being friends with the
players. The days of the "all ships rise with the tide" approach to
elevating coaches needs to stop. I think the fact that Nashif is
leaving without another coaching gig is compelling. We saw a similar problem
when Doman left as OC in football.
Looks like another reprint article from a few years ago. The more
things change the more they stay the same.
@Eastern CO CougI also would like to see BYU recruit a couple of
athletic guards that can stop the easy penetration. This was a killer last year
against the likes of St. Mary's. Keep hope alive!-------------Actually, we just need guys with some heart and
determination at guard willing to play defense. Go back and watch the WCC
tourney loss to St Mary's and look at the effort Elijah Bryant gave in
guarding a very gimpy-legged Joe Rahon to open the game (Rahon drove wherever he
wanted and Bryant just let him) and then watch the difference when Guinn came in
the game later in the 1st half and played him physically and diverted him away
from the key with his body. Guinn isn't an amazing athlete, he just played
with determination.Also to open that game we had Haws guarding
Emmett Naar and they ran several high screens for Naar out top with a PF
screening. Haws, in an effort to avoid any contact with the screener, dropped
way too far below the screener to the point that Naar was taking wide open set
shots from the top of the key adn drilled several 3's to open the game.Guys need to be willing to swap some sweat and be physical.
Thank you Mr. Harmon for a spot on analysis of the state of BYU Hoops. I think
you do need to hire an individual such as Schroyer, but also who has a vast
recruiting network , other than the network you have on your current staff. If
he hires from within, it will be more of the same. Our guys, outside of Mika,
Guinn and a couple others, didn't commit to defense. It would be great to
have a bad cop coach who challenged our guys to actually stay in front of their
man and not play the "ole, reach for the ball as the guy goes by you defense
or the constant flying in the air as the opposing player pump fakes you because
you're out of position." I would also like to see our recruiting be
more than just the state of Utah. No offense, but Utah high school hoops
doesn't produce a vast talent pool nor does it traditionally have the kind
of talent which reaches the NBA. Nothing against Utah high school hoops, but
that's the truth.
I think far too many use the honor code as an excuse for not recruiting and
getting better players. I also believe that coach Rose is too loyal
to former players in recruiting their sons, who do nothing but shoot the ball
well (can anyone dare mention the Haws kids?). the 2015 - 2016 season featured
a hustling, tough Emery. But after Haws returned from his mission, Emery's
own numbers went down. Shooters like both the Haws kids are terrible team
players, because they want to be the shooters.St Mary's and
Gonzaga are successful because they play team ball, and everybody is a
"shooter" when they get open easy shots. If you watch the Jazz, their
scoring is very balanced, and any one of the players can be the high scorer on
any given night. Not so with BYU. Other than Mika, who worked for his shots,
there was one certain player who ALWAYS wanted to be the high scorer (guess who
that was). Not only that, that that shooter didn't want to play defense,
so he wouldn't get any fouls called on him.
"Doing easy isn’t going to get a WCC title or an NCAA berth anytime
soon."Here is a local sportswriter with reasonable expectations.
Build the program. Set attainable goals. Predicting multiple final four
appearances for a program has never seen one is highly unfair to Coach Rose.
Expect better; don't demand miracles.
@ Dick HarmonDick, this is possibly your best and certainly most
appropriate column ever. Your comment "Not establishing personal ties to
Croatia, Latvia, Spain, France, Australia and Brazil with worldwide LDS faith
connections could be called malpractice" was spot on. All we fans want is
for media and BYU leadership to call it like it truly is.....and some
accountability so we can make constructive change. Thank you for writing a
column that scholarships are pieces of treasure and have been misused. I was
starting to think I could only rely on bloggers for intelligent comments. Or...
to use your words I was wondering if "he's (meaning Dick) been in a
comfort zone at the Deseret News the past few years."
3 open scholarships, watch out Mission Presidents
I'm afraid this article misses the elephant in the room.Nothing
wrong with the author's suggestions but they're all either peripheral
or long term.The single key to whether this team is markedly better
next year than they were this year is how hard the players are willing to work,
physically and mentally, to make that happen.No player or team that
wants to excel needs a load voice to motivate them to give maximum effort on
defense and to take it personally if beaten by their man.Great
players have the humility and drive to spend the time necessary to turn their
weaknesses into strengths.The fan frustration spoken of by the
author is largely recognition that the players on the floor did not seemed
dissatisfied with a level of effort that routinely allowed opposing players and
teams to outperform their norms.The team, when motivated and engaged
could play with the best. That same team needs to decide how often it will hold
itself accountable to that level of motivation and engagement.I wish
them the best.
Not, perhaps. Without question. Nobody can really understand that recruiting for
BYU is becoming increasingly and exponentially more difficult, unless they are
put in the position of actually recruiting to BYU. I am 100 % behind the honor
code at BYU, but I am also married to a BYU coach, and I see and hear first-hand
every week how nearly impossible it is to get anyone from the US, let alone
overseas (primarily South America) to even come to BYU on a VISIT once you tell
them about the honor code. If you are honest, which you better be, you mention
the HIGHLY competitive academics (meaning, once you get past your generals it is
ridiculously hard to get into the program you intended when you came here). You
also talk about the honor code in the best terms you can, but essentially, no
drinking, no coffee, no sex. 95% of the time the result of that talk is... no
visit. If they would come for a visit, BYU has a chance, because the atmosphere
is so unique. But, the fact is, there just aren't that many
un-highly-recruited Division I quality athletes floating around. And there are
even less, willing to step out of their own cultural box and take a chance on
honor codes and LDS culture.
After coog fans bagged on Coach K for 2 transfers, I can't wait to see
their outcry for Rose losing 3 and apparently forgetting how to coach.
Good article. I agree with many of the points. Hate to see Guin leave since he
played good defense and showed great energy. A defensive oriented coach would
be great. I also would like to see BYU recruit a couple of athletic guards that
can stop the easy penetration. This was a killer last year against the likes of
St. Mary's. Keep hope alive!
Hmmm. The DNews (i.e., Brad Rock) and coog fans hit Coach K hard for two player
transfers and losing continuity.But Head Cheerleader Harmon lets
slip the coogs are losing three players and excuses it by saying Rose, who has
apparently forgotten how to coach, can use the scholarships in recruiting. Yeah, love the continuity. Can't wait to hear the coog-fan spin on