Faith

China, once officially atheist, now booming with religion

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  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    May 18, 2017 6:38 p.m.

    jsf:

    There is no splitting of hairs when comparing Leninist Marxists with Marxists who are anti-Lenin.

    Marxists of various stripes share some common dogma. But there can be vast differences between them.

    Business people of various stripes share the belief in their right to "private property".

    The owner of a slave market in 1840 South Carolina is totally committed to his right to "private property". His customers also share his commitment.

    Abolitionist business people also share their belief to their right to "private property". The dogma of "private property" has its limits.

    Marxists and business people have some common dogma among themselves. But there can can be vast differences among each group.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    May 18, 2017 3:06 p.m.

    America, and China are switching on religion.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    May 18, 2017 1:42 p.m.

    OD: I think you split hairs. Each of the tyrants and dictators has offered their own version of Marxism. But in the end they all have reverted to what you call the Leninist model. Marx and Engels both said the institution of Communism by revolution , is the ultimate result of and goal of Socialism.

    The concept of Marxism by any other name still ends with the elimination of classes usually through violent means.

    "The Workers Party in America is a workers’ political organization dedicated to the defeat of capitalism and capitalist rule, and the establishment of a workers’ republic as the first step to the achievement of the communist society."

    We seek to be the political leadership of the proletarian movement."

    In the end of Marxism there are left two classes, the proletariat, the lower class, and the Central Committees and their party controllers.

    What does Marxism provide? Nothing to the proletariat and death if they object. Venezuela is currently a good example of how Marxism goes wrong. Now comes the elimination of opposing proletariats to the dictatorial ruling class.

  • David Centerville, UT
    May 18, 2017 12:05 p.m.

    China was quite advanced, even a world power centuries ago, and it wasn't communism and Mao that provided their prominence.

  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    May 18, 2017 11:42 a.m.

    jsf:

    I agree with about 90 percent of your post at 10:03 a.m.

    However, there is one very important error in your post. If you had used the term of Marxist-Leninist, then I believe you would have been about 100 percent correct.

    There are many varieties of Marxists. There are also many anti-Leninist-Marxists.

    It is the Leninist interpretation and application of Marxism that has killed 10s of millions of human beings.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    May 18, 2017 10:03 a.m.

    "But what would China be like absent Mao?" 40 to seventy million people stronger.

    Regarding Mao, "whose rule is estimated to have contributed to the deaths of 40 to 70 million people through starvation, forced labour and executions, ranking his tenure as the top incidence of democide in human history." What was one of those things that would get you killed under Mao's regime, religion.

    This is the goal of all Communists (Marxists political ideology) in the world. It has been estimated by a Marxist (political adherent) here in the US that for Marxists (political ideology) to be successful in changing the US to their way of government, 25% of the population would need to be eliminated. That is about 80 million.

    Can any Marxist please give us an accounting of the number of people killed under the regimes of Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Il-Sung and his son and grandson, Ho Chi Minh, Fidel Castro and Ernesto Guevara. All Marxists (political ideology).

  • WasatchReb Provo, UT
    May 18, 2017 9:14 a.m.

    I don't agree with marxist at all, but it wasn't just population that made them a global power... or else India would've been right behind China. Mao's communism did allow the country to be more ready than India to take on their version of a state-owned capitalist/socialist country that they are now, but there's no saying what would've happened if Mao never existed.... probably China, as we know it, would've been divided into multiple countries and there's no knowing what would've succeeded from there....

    What we do know, is right now, an alarming amount of US dollars are funneled through China... so much so, that Hong Kong and other countries with a large population of Chinese nationals (Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, etc...) have no way of controlling the laundering of US funds like we do here in the U.S., resulting in so much corruption of foreign "investments" that we truly are becoming "Chimerica"... connected at the hip.

    In sum, both of you are speaking a lot of truth, but neither is telling the whole story....

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    May 18, 2017 8:58 a.m.

    The surge in China came when capitalism and private property rights were permitted. Under Mao the country was very poor though with over 1 billion people some things can change. 40 countries have had communism and it doesn't work. This was a wonderful article. Maybe one day Mormon Elders will be allowed, but the Church will not send them without the permission of CHina.

  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    May 18, 2017 8:20 a.m.

    "Yes, it's true. There are more Bibles printed in China than anywhere else!"--See 10:21 p.m.

    Most are probably for export and not for internal consumption??

    "Mao... industrialized China."

    After the twin tragedies of the "Great Leap Forward" and the "Cultural Revolution", China was in ruins.

    "I don't approve of much of Mao's program, but he did reestablish China as a global power."

    Take "Mao" out of the above sentence and substitute "Joseph Stalin".

    Also when Mao died it was only China's population that made China a global power".

  • Hank Jr Deer Ridge, UT
    May 18, 2017 7:12 a.m.

    As in all things, it's only a matter of time.

  • geekusprimus Little Elm, TX
    May 18, 2017 12:09 a.m.

    I'm interested to see what will happen. I think as China's people gradually taste freedom a little bit at a time, their government will slowly continue to creep toward republicanism and democracy. As that happens, religion will continue to grow and reestablish a foothold among the Chinese people. I wouldn't be surprised to see native Taiwanese and Hong Kong members of the Church called to serve missions in mainland China inside of my lifetime.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    May 17, 2017 10:21 p.m.

    Yes, it's true. There are more Bibles printed in China than anywhere else!

    This is fine. But what would China be like absent Mao? Before Mao China had been a doormat for the world for centuries. Mao threw the foreigners out and industrialized China. I don't approve of much of Mao's program, but he did reestablish China as a global power.

    Those curious about China today may want to watch Niall Ferguson's "Ascent of Money." Today China and the U.S. are so tightly interlinked as to be virtually one country - "Chimerica" as defined by Ferguson.

  • 1Reader Sunnyvale, CA
    May 17, 2017 8:43 p.m.

    Fascinating.