In our opinion: Partisan violence is a crime against democracy, civility and humanity

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  • HSTucker Holladay, UT
    June 24, 2017 10:35 a.m.

    Partisan propaganda is also a crime against democracy. Hopefully that will never be an accurate description of this news organization, but only time will tell.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 16, 2017 10:25 a.m.

    Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated a President who was a liberal Democrat. What is less well known is that several months earlier in 1963 he made an attempt to assassinate a controversial former army general who held extreme right wing views. In the investigation into the JFK assassination it was learned than when Oswald was still in the Marine Corps, he told some of his fellow marines he wanted to do something people would still be talking about ten thousand years from now.

    It’s presumptuous to conclude the man who shot Congressman Scalise went over the edge due to political ideology. But it’s easier than talking about guns or mental illness. Too many will hastily blame anything else to avoid to even going there.

  • Vanceone Provo, UT
    June 15, 2017 4:26 p.m.

    Shorter Tyler D: "Republican speech is violence. Democrat violence is speech, and we need more of it!"

  • weightless skittles Hewitt, Texas
    June 15, 2017 3:55 p.m.

    To Tolstoy
    You have not read clearly what I wrote.
    Comey in his testimony stated the New York Times lied in an article about Trump. NYT did not recind article or correct. CNN reported for almost a day that the shooter of Gabbie Gifford's was a Tea Party member only to discover they had the wrong man. Again, they would not retract their comments. In the Pulse nightclub massacre the news media claimed it was probably a homophobic conservative man who was the shooter. Again, no retraction or clarification they were wrong when it was discovered his radical Islamic ties.
    Enough of the excuses. Did we not learn from our Civil War that war is brutal, horrendous, destructive and that even 150 years later, we still feel the effects? Stop parsing words and giving excuses, even about the press. We all have to live in this planet and when we look down from orbit, we are all the same specks of humanity.

  • Tyler D Prescott, AZ
    June 15, 2017 3:18 p.m.

    @Vermonter – “There seems to be plenty of uncivil acrimony on both sides of the political divide these days”

    Agreed… to me this is simply Newton’s Third Law of Motion in action.

    The point I’m trying to make – and the whole point of bringing up the Mote and Beam parable – is the Right has been at this a lot longer than the Left. They are long overdue for some real soul searching when it comes to the type of media they consume and the politicians they are electing (policy positions aside, is there anyone on the planet who thinks Trump is not the most “morally challenged” president we’ve ever elected?).

    When the Gingrich revolution got into full swing, John McCain was quoted as saying it was the political equivalent of the coming of the Khmer Rouge… think about that.

    And Gingrich is tame compared to some of the intractable bomb-throwers on the Right today.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    June 15, 2017 3:04 p.m.

    First: we need to get Russia out of the Republican party and out of American politics.

    Second: We need to come together as a nation and stop this ridiculous division of parties. We are all Americans and we need to all work together.

    Third: We need a unifier as a president not a divider. Donald Trump is a divider.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    June 15, 2017 2:25 p.m.

    @Patriot
    There is still more coming out about the shooter but much of what you say we know is false.
    For one he despised Hillary and lumped her into the same category as Trump and the Republicans. He was a loner, living out of his van, showering at the local YMCA and asking for job leads.
    Lumping this crazed nut into the majority of other Americans who resist and oppose Trump's crude demeanor and braggadocio attitude is quite a stretch. That would be like lumping in the Montreal or Colorado shooters along with all Fox News listeners and right wing supporters just because they affiliated with them.

  • Mick , 00
    June 15, 2017 2:13 p.m.

    Tyler D-

    Maybe you would like to retract your statement linking Rep. Giffords shooting with the Republicans or Palin. The New York Times was call out on their mistake and retracted.

    President Obama told his supporter to "get in the face" of their neighbors and encouraged to stir things up. Make sure you point out everything liberals. You would hate to look hypocritical.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 15, 2017 1:56 p.m.

    This guy was not some detatched soul but rather an active Democrat and Sanders disciple. He was active on all the democrat twitter and facebook sites as well as an msnbc believer. You feed someone enough hate and they explode. This nut was a product of the post election resist movement. He isnt alone and that is the scary part.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    June 15, 2017 1:44 p.m.

    @Tyler D.
    Thank you for clarifying the intent of your comment. I was too myopically focused on the word "weaponize."

    I think you are getting at the idea that Trump and others in his populist movement have been politically successful with malevolent and uncivil rhetoric. And I would agree with that.

    As for the beam and mote analogy, I am having trouble seeing it. There seems to be plenty of uncivil acrimony on both sides of the political divide these days, though Trump and his Trumpists obviously have the upper hand at the ballot box these days. But perhaps I am only seeing what I want to see.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    June 15, 2017 1:26 p.m.

    @Rubydo
    Yes supporters on all sides can be crude, rude and violent. But the difference in the last election was we had a major candidate not only embracing and practicing those "deplorable" acts but encouraging them. And he won! What does that say about us as Americans? Look around the world or among your own community for the answer to that. Many, many people are appalled and discouraged to see what has become accepted and tolerated.

  • weightless skittles Hewitt, Texas
    June 15, 2017 1:27 p.m.

    Please, those of you who are equating
    Gabor Gifford's shooting to yesterday, you are wrong to do so. Gifford's assailant was obsessed with her. He was in no way related to Republicans, tea party, or conservatives. The FBI found he voted and identified liberal. This is not the same situation. Again, we need to stop the violence not point fingers.

  • HSTucker Holladay, UT
    June 15, 2017 1:18 p.m.

    @marxist: "This is fascism."

    You're engaging in hate speech and inciting violence.

  • Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney Kaysville, UT
    June 15, 2017 1:08 p.m.

    Most posters here are missing the point as they continue to pile on Trump. THey need to take a good, long look in the mirror.

    I suggest maybe we all should try a little harder to tone down our opinions and not just keep reinforcing the vitriol we seem to love. We should loather it. I for one am so sick of KSL and their morning show and their mid-day "news attack" show because EVERY DAY is criticism of Trump from before he even won his first primary way back when (he couldn't be serious; he was an outsider, then a clown, then a con artist, then incompetent, then inexperienced, then a fake, etc) that I no longer listen to that station very much. I'm ready to ask them for a list of advertisers and then write each a letter explaining why they cannot expect any of my business. I'd expect better of KSL (and even the Des News who came out strongly against Trump before the election -- how'd that position work out?) but I'll believe it when I see it. My support of Obama AFTER he won doesn't compare with what we're seeing by those who didn't want Trump. It is a huge contrast. Now we have not only violent demonstrations, but shootings.

  • Rubydo Provo, UT
    June 15, 2017 12:54 p.m.

    Just last week the DN shared an article with some surprising facts about Trump voters which said they are unhealthy and uneducated the same week that Kathy Griffin shared her memorable photo while conservatives continue to be intimidated, silenced and beaten by the antifa and the politically correct left.

    For those of you saying that Trump encouraged violence at his rallies let me remind you of the attendees that had eggs and tomatoes thrown at them by the anti Trump crowd. The ruthless attacks on Trump and his supporters by the media and the far left politicians that always say that conservatives are killing the planet and Obamacare should share some of the blame.

  • Tyler D Prescott, AZ
    June 15, 2017 12:40 p.m.

    @Vermonter – “I did find Tyler D's comment about conservatives weaponizing politics most interesting given…”

    You left out the word “politically” in what I said, which implies that I meant “weaponize” metaphorically. And what I meant was the radical Left has never been able to turn their uncompromising faction into political power.

    Pretty much every Republican member of Congress is a living testament to the radical Right’s ability to do so.

    Simply compare the political power of the Tea Party to Occupy Wall Street as proof of this truth.

    @Flashback – “Tyler D, when was the last time a Republican went out and shot up a Democrat baseball practice…”

    Well Gabby Giffords wasn’t playing baseball, but…

    And do you really not see the difference between protests (which are protected and even encouraged by the 1st Amendment) and language/actions that incite violence?

    The whole reaction from the Right to this tragedy reminds me of the Parable of the Mote and the Beam.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 15, 2017 12:32 p.m.

    Partisan violence is a crime against democracy, civility and humanity
    What type of violence isn't? I ask in context of the shooting at the UPS facility in San Francisco yesterday; 4 including gunman killed.
    We're becoming a more violent society. Even the president advises us to pound the c&@p out of 'em.
    Of course I'm disappointed that it's come to this. But I did some soul searching today, and at this incident, and Gabby Giffords, I'm not surprised.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 15, 2017 11:58 a.m.

    In our opinion: Partisan violence is a crime against democracy, civility and humanity

    ====

    In other words --
    It's ONLY partisan when it is against anything Republican.

    Gag!

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    June 15, 2017 11:50 a.m.

    Who said that the 2nd amendment people could take care of Clinton?

    Trump did. Where was the outrage?

    Trump said he said he could basically assault women because he is famous.

    Where was the outrage?

    There wasn't any by 60 million people because they voted for him.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    June 15, 2017 11:46 a.m.

    As readers comments show, we all have trouble to one degree or another keeping partisanship off our minds, even for a few minutes.

    I did find Tyler D's comment about conservatives weaponizing politics most interesting given that a conservative lying in a hospital bed in critical condition prompted this editorial.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2017 11:30 a.m.

    @HSTucker " I never again want to see claims that President Trump is a "fascist" or "dictator."

    I heard with my own two ears, Donald Trump describe the way things used to be in the good old days - a protester would be dragged out and beaten up. He even said he would pay the legal bills of anyone administering the beating. This is fascism. I heard it myself live. Can you deny it?

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2017 11:27 a.m.

    While I agree with this editorial, make no mistake many of us think Donald J Trump is the greatest threat to the U.S. Constitution we have ever witnessed. We are not going to modulate our concerns.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 15, 2017 11:19 a.m.

    Hate is the best weapon that politicians can use to defeat their opposition. And it doesn't really matter if it is based upon truth or lies.

    War requires hate of the enemy. Usually there is/are a event(s) that happen in the lead up of a war that creates the hate that may be the result of the enemy but may also be lies by our own government. We may never know.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    June 15, 2017 11:16 a.m.

    Tyler D, when was the last time a Republican went out and shot up a Democrat baseball practice because they didn't like the Democrat political stances?

    News Flash Tyler. The right is not behind all these protests and sit ins and anarchy. The left is. They condone it and don't condemn.

    Yes I agree the Republicans could have been a little nicer to Obama. But then you have Ted's infamous statement of "Bush lied people died". Reid calling Romney a liar etc the vitriol from the left has been way worse.

    Say what you want about Trump's big mouth but no conservative has gone out and targeted any Democrats.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    June 15, 2017 10:58 a.m.

    @weightless skittles

    The press has always relied on anonymous sources and insiders. It is nothing new and to try to tie that to this shooting is without merit. If your claim were true this type of incident would have been happening for more then a hundred years.

  • JBs Logan, UT
    June 15, 2017 10:41 a.m.

    As much as I dislike Donald Trump's behavior and rhetoric, Kathy Griffin was flat out sickening. Violence is nothing to joke about or encourage and there has been far too much of both from extremists in BOTH parties.

    Peace, or violence, begins with thoughts, then words, then actions. I propose that we need to change the way we see each other. Politics is such a small part of life, hopefully. Outside of my immediate family, my aunts, uncles, and cousins that I love are rabid Trump supporters. I just won't talk about politics with them, because at the end of the day, the only lasting things are family and friends.

  • portlander Arlington, WA
    June 15, 2017 10:16 a.m.

    Hate and fear are the two emotions that we all must be wary of. Some groups sew hate while others sew fear, and the target groups are diverse. I personally, find it reprehensible, how many individuals express real hated, no matter what side of the equation they stand on. I also find it disgusting how judgmental many people are, and how they feel justified in their judgmentalism.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 15, 2017 10:14 a.m.

    On Wednesday a shooter opened fire on a baseball team consisting of Republican lawmakers who were practicing for a charity game. We condemn this horrific attack carried out on politicians playing one of the nation’s great uniting pastimes.

    On Wednesday a shooter opened fire at a UPS facility in San Francisco. Where is the condemnation of this horrific attack carried out on ordinary citizens just doing their jobs?

  • Husker1 Northern Utah County, UT
    June 15, 2017 9:56 a.m.

    It's horribly sad that people from the Left and Right cannot even come here and agree that violence is bad and it needs to stop.

    This isn't about Trump. There was political violence long before Trump was elected. This isn't about any one person. This isn't about guns laws. This is about a culture of violence. This is about a diverse culture with too much intolerance on BOTH sides.

  • HSTucker Holladay, UT
    June 15, 2017 9:44 a.m.

    Thank you, Deseret News. I never again want to see claims that President Trump is a "fascist" or "dictator." That is the type of speculation that incites actual violence (e.g., the left's "punch a fascist" campaign) and should never appear on this site.

  • Third try screen name Mapleton, UT
    June 15, 2017 9:20 a.m.

    A crime against democracy? Did you get that rot from Scott Pelly?

    This meme of faux indignation is nauseating. When someone plows a truck into a crowd of people, you call him a "lone wolf" and sweep his affiliations under the rug.

    But if you shoot at politicians, that's an outrage.

    I don't get it.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 15, 2017 8:52 a.m.

    "Partisan violence is a crime against democracy, civility and humanity."
    ____________________
    Regardless of what the Deseret News, Newt Gingrich, or anyone else argues, partisan politics was not the cause of yesterday’s violence. It was one man’s convenient excuse.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    June 15, 2017 8:49 a.m.

    And yet, this paper is reluctant to condemn a President who rose to power preaching violence and has done nothing to change his tone and attitude after assuming office.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    June 15, 2017 8:32 a.m.

    Civility does in fact matter. Certainly we are incensed when "our guy" is maligned or "their guy" is doing the maligning. But we must be equally incensed when "our guy" is the one doing the maligning or when "their guy" is the one maligned. Otherwise, we do not understand or really support civility.

  • Tyler D Prescott, AZ
    June 15, 2017 8:33 a.m.

    In politics we have a choice between conversation or violence (it’s a spectrum of course, but those two choices firmly anchor each end).

    For anyone participating in the public square, the question of which direction your actions are moving towards should always be front and center.

    Both sides share blame, but frankly I have never in my lifetime witnessed the destruction of norms of civility and public discourse we have seen from the Right, especially since Obama’s election.

    Of course these tendencies started long before Obama (e.g., politicians like Newt Gingrich and inflammatory media like AM talk radio), but any sense of trying to find common ground seemed to go out the window in 2008.

    I’m not sure when this “fever of rage” will break but until it does we will struggle to live in the kind of republic our Founders designed (which, first and foremost, was meant to foster compromise).

    PS – of course the Left has become fairly intolerant of late too (see college campuses) but their intractability has not yet been politically weaponized like it has on the Right.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 15, 2017 8:31 a.m.

    Trump at his rallies calls for decenters to be carried out on stretchers.
    a GOP congressman from Montana body slams a reporter.

    NO - it's only liberal democrats who are guilty of partisan violence.

    FYI --
    Mr. Trump is currently in 3 separate law-suits for inciting partisan violence.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    June 15, 2017 8:30 a.m.

    In 2008 there were millions of guns, hundreds of partisan nuts, and an inflamed partisan base fueled by a hyperbolic conservative media. Even here in Utah there were hanging effigies of President Obama and elected officials stoking the fire with doubts of his citizenship and legitimacy. What's the difference here in 2017 vs 2008? One man, Donald Trump. He put partisan politics on steroids and got more support from the public and elected politicians along the way. America has reaped what its sown. We are not the country many of you think we are. If you believe we our the shining city on the hill and the Lord's prodigal child, just travel out of the country or browse the internet for international news. We live in a bubble and one that is growing more dangerous every day.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    June 15, 2017 8:05 a.m.

    "In 2008, those numbers were closer to 30 percent."

    Gee what happened after that? Mitch McConnell declared on the very first day of the Obama administration (yea the same Obama who at the time was being declared a foreign born intruder by Trump), Republicans would block absolutely everything the new administration tried to accomplish.

    Then comes the tea party who literally shut down the government over their views, and declared a no prisoners approach to governing.

    Did Democrats react to this ahhhh yea. But look no further than yourselves Republicans for the origin of the current animus.

    Remember the 30% number was after 8 years of Bush starting wars, and crashing an economy.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2017 8:06 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal "Where was the Deseret News when Donald Trump called for beatings and said he'd pay for the expenses at his campaign rallies?"

    Good question. I agree substantially with this editorial, but fact is, I know Donald Trump despises people like me, so it's hard to feel any warmth for the other side.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    June 15, 2017 7:53 a.m.

    I think that someday, probably not this day, but someday America will have to come to grips with its violent and murderous legacy.

    Four Presidents have been assassinated. At least four others almost were. Political acts of terror have been a staple in American history for all manner of elected officials. I am hard pressed to find a historical precedent in other countries histories in recent history.

    And we have not even begun to evaluate the number of other gun related incidents in the country, nor why.

    Other Western style democracies have figured out a way to reduce this violence. What is so wrong with America that it choses to continue our murderous ways? Is this what we want for our children?

  • weightless skittles Hewitt, Texas
    June 15, 2017 7:32 a.m.

    The media needs to remember that they too, are members of society and most are citizens of this country. Yes, it is important for news to be reported. However, the news is increasingly becoming mere articles written to persuade, insinuate, cast judgement and not to inform the reader only. When major news sources continue to push a story with"anonymous sources", an "insider" said this-, and
    a " close insider" said that, it becomes one story after another with only the reporter controlling what he or she wants out in the public. The is not fact based journalism. Such rampant rhetoric of the hostile media towards any political group is dangerous to the people' safety and to democracy. This kind of soft or deliberate propaganda breeds hostility and lack of respect for opposing views or beliefs. We all need to remember the sacrifices that made us a country and a United States of America. We should stand shoulder to shoulder unified even if our political views differ. May God bless this people that we may heal our wounds and divisions.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    June 15, 2017 7:07 a.m.

    "How citizens treat each other matters. Rhetoric matters."

    No mention of Trump suggesting those "2nd amendment types" could "do something about Hillary". Or, that he could "shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue and not lose any voters".
    Trump changed political discourse in the US forever. And not in a good way.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    June 15, 2017 7:05 a.m.

    In our opinion: Partisan violence is a crime against democracy, civility and humanity

    =======

    Where was the Deseret News when Congresswoman Gabby Giffords was gunned down and nearly assassinated?

    Where was the Deseret News when Donald Trump called for beatings and said he'd pay for the expenses at his campaign rallies?

    Where was the Deseret News just last week Donald Trump's son, Eric Trump said - and I quote: "Democrats are not even people".

    Nah- it's ONLY partisan when it's a Republican is the targeted...

  • GoldenNuggets Salt Lake City, UT
    June 15, 2017 7:05 a.m.

    Speaking about "crimes against democracy", that's exactly how people are describing the things the Republicans are doing (See secret health care legislation that is going on right now). Shooting people is never an effective way to solve problems. In fact, it's mentally unhinged. However, the usual ways to affect politicians: town meetings, marches, and protests, are being ignored by Republicans in their zeal to push unpopular legislation.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    June 15, 2017 6:20 a.m.

    "How citizens treat each other matters. Rhetoric matters. In order to heal the nation and continue to strengthen America’s great experiment, individual citizens must recommit to civility and adopt the kind of political discourse that constructs rather than corrodes the country."

    Agreed...... and honestly I appreciated it when DN denies some comments I make because I do not at the time see them with their unintended interpretation. Sometimes I can't find where offense was inferred. But that's ok..... If I really have a point I want to make, I just need to rethink how to deliver that idea.

    We need to find ways to have discussions around ideas without mindlessly clumping people into over simplified groups or "ilks" that seek to discredit those people simply through association. Mockery and insults never convinced the other party to change their opinion. Only through respectful dialog can common ground be found... and there is a lot of common ground.