Bluto,Wow, real it in a little. How did you get to this point?
Maybe crack open the good book and spend a few minutes.
@bluto.......You poor guy/girl I feel horribly bad for you. It
really must be awful to have to come up with any lame excuse possible to explain
loses. Although Utah flat out owned the might cougies in their own
stadium a win is a win. It don't matter if it's 6 or 60 the W counts
the same. We can sit here and say how Utah shot their self in the foot over and
over and if they hadn't it would have been 56 to 3 Utah. All that
don't matter though Utah won the cougies lost.You think you
would be use to it by now 7 straight, 16 of 19 and overall domination. Sorry
bluto face it Utah owns the mighty cougies in happy valley!
Bluto - Sandy, UTsaid:".....btw - I address issues with
specificity and with facts. "LOL!!!More like distortedly
@why play.... I agree with your assessment that the line play has a lot to do
with it. Byu was horrible at picking up the corner blitz... theQB had no chance
many times. He did make some really unwise balls though while under pressure.
But yes... the lines are too slow.I do think it's funny that
some of my fellow byu fans just don't get how playing on a non-conference
team is hurting recruiting. I admire that many of the y players are out there
playing their guts out knowing they are not playing for any kind of
championship ( national nor conference ) with only hopes of qualifying for a
meaningless bowl. But a lot of players want more to play for. It's just
a fact of life.
@WallbangerI never said "he's going to come out guns a
blazing". Not my terminology.But thanks for listening.There is indeed a new Sheriff in town and the Mighty Red Tailed Hawks squeaked
out a 6 point victory and a 1 point win in the game before that.So
much for Utah being light years ahead of BYU talent-wise.@Just
Gordo...Favre himself said that he couldn't read a defense until Ty
showed him how.@rsluteNever equate Utah with an LSU. Ever.If BYU cannot compete with 2/3 of the Glorious P-5's, then how do you
explain beating BYU by only 6 points when they handed "U" 3
interceptions?The arrogance of U fans is astonishing. Utah is at the same
level of BYU. No better no worse.A duel Inferiority/Superiority
Complex is quite the sight to behold.@Spokie UteMe,
Inferiority complex U say. That would be U fans trolling every BYU article
and shouting WE P-5...We P-5. False Bravado is hilarious!btw - I address issues with specificity and with facts. 180 Pac-12
championships since Utah joined the Pac. Eccles U has won 3.And.....
Whatever is going to happen this season needs to happen over the next four
games. Improved offensive production against Wisconsin and being in the game,
then wins against Utah State, Boise State, and Mississippi State.
It's a combination of a lot of things not the least of which is having the
public try and vote on the primary culprit. A talented offensive line
can't seem to provide adequate pass protection or run blocking. There
isn't enough consistency in the play calling to establish either. The QB
is unable to go thru progressions and the inconsistent moments of accurate
passes are equally met with untimely drops. RBBC isn't producing a
consistent runner. All that said, LSU and Utah both have very
talented defenses and strong history of such. BYU doesn't have a sufficient
set of skill position personnel to compete effectively with the top half to
2/3rds of most P5 conferences. However, they probably could at least be
competitive with the bottom 1/3 of teams in several of these P5 conferences.
BYU football is the equivalent of a mid-major. The MWC is perfect expect that
BYU wants more money. But 6-7 million from ESPN doesn't match the 25-30 mm
the P5 teams are getting. But even a ton of money wouldn't completely
change BYU's fortunes. A lot of it is personnel and non-football factors.
I don't believe that the primary struggle is due to coaching. They have
Strom, your point A and B about Green Bay are correct. That actually is what
happened. Ask Favre. He's on record that Detmer taught him a lot and
helped him a lot. Why do you think Detmer stuck in the NFL for as long as he
did? Vick had his best years with Detmer as his backup.That said,
the Y offense better find themselves, quickly.
The current BYU offense ranks in the bottom 25 teams in the nation. Ranks the
third worse disappointing team by the sports media. I have to go back to
pre-Edwards era to find a team with as bad an offense production as the 2017
team. That said what can be done? Change to the shotgun or pistol. Change to a
new QB. Stop running up the middle, a complete waste of downs. More screens,
passes to backs, slant runs. Go for more yards on first down. Don't be in a
hurry, use up some clock time, we are not scoring, but then the other teams
offense is off the field. Of course with our current QB throwing numerous
interceptions that may not matter.
Hoosier87: "If, and I mean a big if, if he could complete passes, the run
game would open up. You've got Trinnaman that runs a 4.3 and he can't
throw him the ball. That's not P5 talent? Shumway has a 38 inch vertical,
that's not P5 talent? Bushman is an NFL tight end for sure!"Trinaman and Shumway can't run good routes, can't catch, and Shumway
is slow. If it was a jumping contest perhaps Shumway is P5 talent. Bushman is
decent to date, but a little early to call him NFL talent.
BYU has one problem and one only - the qb. Receivers are open, and Mangum just
isn't seeing them (aside from the last two drives against the Utes).
It's obvious he just isn't the guy. I love the new offense; we just
need a qb that can run it. We'll see what happens once Detmer gets one of
his guys in the next year or two. Hopefully he can recruit someone that has a
mind for the game like he did. Taysom and Tanner both couldn't, and BYU
has suffered for it.
Bluto:Weren't you one of several fans telling us all off season
to "be afraid, very afraid" as well as, "there's a new sheriff
in town, and he's going to come out guns a blazing", not to mention,
"the pendulum has shifted"? Yes, yes I think you were. You can
"boast" until the Big 12 doesn't call, again, but the fact remains,
byu has only been close in these games because Utah continues to try and give
the game away, with lack of a consistent offense, and penalties. Don't
worry, I'm sure next year Utah will blow byu out with the new offense more
implimented, and with Huntley only getting better, pending any injuries. 7 in a
row, let's make it 8 at RES 2018!
1. Thanks to Henry Drummond and estreetshuffle for fair and encouraging things
to say.2. Taking polls to determine by "popularity" what is or is
not working is at least innacurate and worse, an inappropriate use
of journalism.3. To all the journalists and "fans" who want to
put disrespectful labels on teams or players, I would invite you to
stop it. You don't want people labeling you; don't do it to
others.4. It's true that BYU and the U football teams have not yet
reached their potential. But I don't know of any individual or
group that has.5. When people are going through hard times, that's
an opportunity to lift and encourge them. Labeling, judging,
(especially by those who have never played college football),
arguing, belittling, etc. do not solve problems. Real fans "cheer" for
their teams, their families, their and friends. Go Courgars!
BlueHusky - "Enough about BYU joining a conference. They won't do it
and shouldn't do it. Conference membership has nothing to do with
performance. BYU has beaten every PAC12 team at one time or another."BYU has not beaten USC. The correct sentence is "Utah has beaten
every PAC12 team".Cougar fans are calling for a conference
because independence offers no excitement after the first loss. Six years in a
row. That gets old.
@ Henry"There really wasn't any one thing that went wrong
for BYU. It was literally a case of not being able to get everything working
right on the same play. "You are absolutely correct!I think that the talent is there, but every group is falling short of what
they should be doing.Except on defense, aside from the DBs playing
too far off the WRs (they always do) the D is doing a really good job.Replacing the QB will do nothing, the OL has the talent but isn't in
sync, the WRs need to free up and catch what comes their way, the RBs might be
better but why was our tune-up LSU?Seriously need fall camp
again!That being said, I think BYU will turn it on shortly,
unfortunately just after it matters.
@london_joshI watched a tape of the game last night. There really
wasn't any one thing that went wrong for BYU. It was literally a case of
not being able to get everything working right on the same play. There were
several plays where everything went right but the WR dropped the ball. On other
plays they did everything right but Utah's line was in the passing lanes
and tipped the ball. Sometimes they got someone wide open deep but the OL missed
an assignment and Tanner had to make the through while running from an unblocked
rusher. Sounds like BYU's Offense needs to go through fall camp again.
Bluto - Sandy, UTSept. 13, 2017 8:10 a.m.Is there anything
more hilarious than Ute trolls endlessly obsessing on all things BYU and
boasting of their own superiority?-Yes, actually there is. Some guy
name Bluto (who's screen name speaks volumes); who worries more about what
Utah fans think than what his own team is doing. Who constantly has to fuel up
the time machine to make his program seem relevant. Talk about hilarious and an
inferiority complex. Good Grief.
Fan immaturity doesn't understand that a developing team is growing from
mistakes. Mistakes are a teacher. Better to have mistakes now and develop into a
solid team all around. This team needs the fans support no matter what.
Let's see if we are fair weather fans or true fans on this journey with BYU
Is there anything more hilarious than Ute trolls endlessly obsessing on all
things BYU and boasting of their own superiority?All this....After a colossal 6 point victory, which came on the heels of a 1 point
victory, which followed 17 of these 20 games being decided by a touchdown or
less. And having this last game, yet again, go down to the last possession?Utah.....With all of it's "Supposed"
advantages...P-5, Pac-12, faster, stronger, bigger athletes,
supremely intelligent , better looking, more tolerant and more humble players,
along with better coaches, cheerleaders, water-boys, announcers and tailgaters,
all this while sporting their pink stadium seats and an inability to define and
wear the Color Crimson.....Are still BYU's equal and are still
the Mid-Major/Washington Generals of the Pac-12.Evidence...There have been nearly 180 Championships awarded (all sports) in the Pac-12
since Utah filled in for the Texas and Oklahoma schools, and yet, heretofore,
the University of Eccles-Red Tailed Hawks, have managed to win....Three...Count 'em 3..... Whole Championships in League..That my friends, is one enormous Matzah Ball !
"Cougar fans are worried" Why worry? It's just a game.
Taciturn - Provo, UTSept. 12, 2017 9:48 p.m. Aside from
beating the Cougars many years in a row, what have the Utes accomplished since
joining the Pac12? Mediocre records and mediocre bowl games? Whit and company at
the U are geniuses for getting their fans to think so highly of mediocrity._____Your side owns mediocrity. What has BYU done since
going independent? That is right, mediocre records and mediocre bowl games. BYU is great at losing to ranked teams on ESPN, thanks to their exclusive
contract.Nice way to get an official conference invite.
People don't seem to get the team concept, let's break it down:WRs - dropping too many passes that hit their hands, no excuse for that,
if you touch it you need to pull it in period, end of story. The other problem
is separation - if you can't outrun them you can move your body in a way to
create separation when the ball comes to you - huge issue on either talent or
coaching.OL - not working as a group, no rushing lanes, big boys, OL
coach needs a serious wake-up call or replacement.RBs - finally some
hope, why did it take so long? (aside from injury)QB - Get some
fire in your belly!OC - learn what's working and what's
not working, if pro style isn't working due to the OL and lack of a running
game, go temporarily to something that works and merge back to pro style next
season.This is fixable, I hope, but it's the entire offense,
not one guy or one group, the TEs is the only group that look good and they lost
one of the starters already.A lot of games to go, and perhaps
they'll be more interesting, I say BYU is either 3-4 or 2-5 after
Mississippi state, as bad as things are I don't see 1-6 happening.
According to NCAA.com-BYU total offense ranking: 124 out of 129 teams.Utah total offense ranking: 39Utah St. total offense ranking:
47Boise St total offense: 85Miss. St total offense: 24My
prediction is that BYU will be 1-6 after their Miss. State game.
Never ceases to amaze me how all the focus of the "football" experts on
the boards call out coaches and skill players by name. When you have problems
on offense that involve no running game, no passing game and no offense, there
is one BIG problem - the O-line. Few mention it, but it's true. The game
of football is won in the trenches, period. It's not sexy, but true!BYU's defense is good because they have a good D line. Utah's
defense is always good cause they always have good D linemen. LSU did what they
did to BYU because they have really good lines on both sides of the ball. Instead of bashing all the skill players, why don't you start
listing all the linemen, by name, and pointing out all they are doing wrong? The
reason why is most experts don't know what they are doing wrong. We
don't draft fantasy linemen nor do we track their stats. Linemen are
especially important in a Pro Style offense. Wanna turn things
around offensively, stop focusing on Mangum, the RB' s and receivers. They
are good enough to compete. Get an O-Line coach in there that knows what
he's doing and things will look better offensively for the Y. That O-line
is not very good!
This BYU team does have some offensive issues that need to be addressed that is
for sure. Hopefully they get that turned around soon. But can someone tell me
why Ute fans seem all high and mighty about their team? Aside from beating the
Cougars many years in a row, what have the Utes accomplished since joining the
Pac12? Mediocre records and mediocre bowl games? Whit and company at the U are
geniuses for getting their fans to think so highly of mediocrity.
I think expectations were pumped up a little too high when BYU hired Ty as
Offensive Coordinator. Just because Ty is on board doesn't mean that NFL
caliber recruits suddenly appear on the scene. Pro style offense can be very
effective but it takes time to learn.
There is nothing wrong with the play making and talent on the offense. What I
saw (and I am a former football coach from the Stobart era) was the lack of
organization of the O line. They are big enough, and strong enough. They are
just not working together. Too much letting the defense into the backfield to
harass the QB and not give the RB time to find a hole which will always appear
with a second of delay after getting the ball. Tanner is not the problem, nor
is Detmer. A good line coach to organize what they have, will change the game
dramatically. Maybe too young? incexperience? It doesn't matter. If the O
line will pick up the attackers, the entire game will change for the better. It
is not too late. The right people are there believe me.
Moracle - I guess you don't live in Utah where BYU is often referred to as
'the Lord's University' by some of the more nearly rabid true
believers - ergo, the Lord's team. Good put down of big, good athletes
who don't go to Byu because in your estimation they cannot or will not
follow the HC. Do you really wonder why so many non-Mormons find you and others
in your organization insufferable?
BlueHusky - Mission Viejo, CASept. 12, 2017 5:36 p.m.Enough about
BYU joining a conference. They won't do it and shouldn't do it.
Conference membership has nothing to do with performance. BYU has beaten every
PAC12 team at one time or another. BYU is usually as good or better than the
bottom half of most conferences. Last year they beat Mississippi State and
Michigan State._____More reverse logic from a BYU fan
trying to explain a loss again.So 3+ decades equals a season?
ToosmartforWHO?:The Utes also had a touchdown called back because of
the exact same penalty. Both were questionable. Those refs were terrible.
It's nice to see the "moral victories" will never die in
cougarville. You keep hanging on to those. FWIW, I would worry more about the
whY? than Utah in the PAC 12. We're now at 2845 days!🤣
Another Concern: Not enough big and talented football players graduating from
high school who are willing to live a life morally clean enough to qualify -- by
living the BYU code of conduct. Although we don't refer to the
Cougars as "the Lord's team", many non-members do see it as the
Mormon Church's Team... and for that reason, especially, I'd like to
see them "Rise and Shout", and "Rise and Shine", when "the
Cougars are out".
NOTtoosmart - Kaysville, UTSept. 12, 2017 5:59 p.m.If you
watched the game, Utah also had a touchdown called backed on a very dubious
"screen" call.I know it's difficult with all the losing
to Utah that your team has been doing this century, but come on man, fight that
descent into insanity.Fight it.
Greatest Concerns - Just these:Grabbing, but missing tackles. Line Unable to keep opposing team from getting to quarterback. Receivers
unable to hold ball when it's in their hands. Cougars seem to lack
Team Spirit and drive. Cougars don't seem to try hard enough. Why players are not replaced when performing poorly. Miss-judged passes,
landing out of reach of receiver, behind and in front. Plays that lack
creativity, too easily read by opposing team.
Gotta laugh at the comments made by Wallbanger. Simply by virtue of the fact
that he continues to comment on BYU articles proves we are still relevant to
him. If not, why comment on a team you have moved on from? Yes BYU is
struggling. Would I, as a fan, like to see us in a P5 conference. Of course I
would. But I have absolutely no control over that. I like Utah's football
program and am very pleased for their success. I hope that the Cougs can once
again compete with Utah. By the way, Mr. Huntley could be the QB on my team any
day. That guy is a competitor! Good luck to the Utes and the Cougs the rest of
" And Florida Atlantic lost only 31-14. BYU is better than both of those
teams."As a season ticket holding BYU fan you gotta ask... huh?
BYU is better based off of what? Beating Portland State? Lets just face it,
this team has issues. Little things like yards after catch - simply don't
exist this year. Add to that absolutely avoidable penalties at the absolutely
worst possible moment.. and this team has a steep learning curve ahead of it.
It's not that the offense hasn't had its chances, the defense has been
doing a decent of getting the opposing teams offense off the field. Add to that
the only bright spot at the TE position. No.... I would say this is
squarely owned by TY. He simply doesn't have the depth in O to play the
type of offense he wants. And rather than adjusting to what he has, he is
running an offense that it is clearly uncomfortable for this team to run.Will future recruiting help get TY the talent he needs.... ? Maybe the
biggest question is will he last long enough to recruit those players..... next
few weeks will tell.
Just love reading all these comments by the superior ute fans, whose team won
because they made 4 field goals and had the benefit of an offensive pass
interference penalty that called back the touchdown that would have given the Y
the victory. There is no question that BYU is struggling, but there is a big
question if utah can do anything this year in the mighty PAC12. So we'll
see; it might prove to be interesting for the PAC12 to see USC steam-roll
everyone else, and Colorado is ahead of the u since both joined the PAC
together. Of course all anyone wants to talk about is the mighty 7 in a row.
Go ahead; that might be all you have to crow about by the end of the season.
I would bet my life savings that after BYU had played 7-8 bad teams most fans on
this board will be convinced BYU's problems are solved and that BYU is the
"better team" than Utah.
@mechofahessYou are correct but it is already happening for years now...
Cougs are moving to the dark side. Just look at Utah County... there are more
Ute billboards in Utah County. There are more cars with Ute stickers in Utah
County and there are more hats , t-shirts, sweaters for the Utes being worn in
Utah County and it is making me ill.
Cheer up, fans. BYU has set the table for success, beginning this Saturday.Wisconsin is in a world of hurt. First of all, the Badgers
have played at home against two second-rate opponents. USU led them for nearly
a half before folding up like a cheap accordion. And Florida Atlantic lost only
31-14. BYU is better than both of those teams. Besides, BYU has the added
experience of already playing a top 25 team.And remember, Wisconsin
doesn't yet know which Y. quarterback to prepare for--and the Cougars seem
to be in no hurry to let then know. Another big advantage is that
BYU's top players in the first two games have done an excellent job of
hiding their true greatness. How do the Badgers prepare for that?All this, together with the fact that BYU is hungry and has the home field
advantage and the altitude advantage means that Wisconsin is in for a good
Enough about BYU joining a conference. They won't do it and shouldn't
do it. Conference membership has nothing to do with performance. BYU has beaten
every PAC12 team at one time or another. BYU is usually as good or better than
the bottom half of most conferences. Last year they beat Mississippi State and
Michigan State.The issues this year is transition to pro set offense
with QB's recruited to run spread. Drop back passing is much more difficult
and will take some time for Mangum to learn.
Most of us can only speculate, but you may need pro-type players to run a
pro-style offense. Teams run spreads to create one-on-one situations.
Hopefully they can fix this.
I hate to be a pessimist, but we were sold a bill of goods by coaches, media and
players who led us to believe this team was going to be good. Those lofty
expectations coupled with pent up frustration with a team that has mostly just
beaten only the cream puffs for the last 6-8 years has resulted in a knot in the
stomach feeling most of us Cougar fans now have. I don't think BYU will be
able to beat Wisconsin, Mississippi State, Boise State, and probably not Utah
State. So if we end of with say a 7-6 record with wins only against the sub
level teams - that will be really satisfying right? This half century plus fan
is really discouraged and down right now. I really hope BYU can find a way to
at least make a good game against Wisconsin. We the fans need something to
boost our spirits and if we don't get it I think a lot of us will shift
towards becoming a Utah fan - and that really is a hard one to swallow but
it's a distinct possibility at least for this old dog. C'mon Cougs -
rise up and win somehow!
And we nearly won against a great defense too......just like the last 2 years.
Y is peaking today and Utes have peaked. Oct and Nov. will bring day and
night difference to each program. Granted, the Utes have 12th most difficult
schedule in the nation, so they could lose 6 or 7 straight.
This dumpster fire belongs to Ty Detmer and Kalani Sitaki. Tanner Mangum is
just another burning tire in the fire.
There is a reason most great coaches weren't former players past college.
Coaching takes years of coaching multiple positions through multiple seasons. It
takes years. Most offensive coordinators have coached the O-line, WRs and RBs
during separate seasons ( a lot even coached defensive positions at some point).
Ty was a back up NFL QB. That is legitimately his "coaching" experience.
1 position, as a back-up. I seriously don't see how BYU fans and these
DNews writers expected him to do better. If you told me Alex Smith (a much
better NFL QB than Ty) was going to be Utahs offensive coordinator next season
I'd know he was unqualified and it'd be a disaster. Alex is one of the
smartest QBs in the league, and there is still no question he would not succeed,
and I'd argue Alex is more qualified than Ty. Being an offensive
coordinator at a high level requires years and years of studying and coaching
multiple positions. Bottom line: Ty is embarrassingly unqualified to be an
BYU has priorities that are different than some of the Schools that are beating
them in Football. P5 Schools. Get used to this People. In My Opinion and many
others, it's just the reality of the money involved in College Football, P5
Television Contracts etc. Add the Honor Code to that, and the fact that
currently, we're not in a conference, and we can't recruit and compete
with a P5 program regularly. It's not on this Coach or that Coach, or even
this player or that player, it's bigger faster stronger kids recruited by a
school from a program with more recruiting leverage and $ money $. I had a real
hard time with this until I came to terms with it and said "do I want BYU to
drop the Honor Code bad enough to compete with..... the University of
"whovever"?..... and when I decided the answer was NO! I was able to
let it go. (but I can only speak for me.) (just a thought)
The lack of talent theory is hog wash in my opinion except for the QB position.
In the past BYU had smart QBs who knew where to go with the ball. I remember
Detmer running for his life half the time but he found people open. I remember
when BYU had less talent than now and they were offensive machines. They knew
how to get most out of their players. Coaches like Mike Holmgren were offensive
gurus. Talent is not everything. BYU could win before without much of it.
And they can still do it. I feel recruiting has been much better with Sitake
versus Mendenhall. Time will tell I suppose. While talent is not
everything, I question the coaches' ability to pick out the best talent BYU
does have- especially on the offensive side of the ball. Why did Ula not play
earlier in game? Why did they not use him in prior games? Don't buy the
injury excuse for the Utah game. Defense is much better but no push
Nick Saban couldn't make this team a winner. The talent pool has finally
dried up thanks to being an Independent for a decade. Bronco warned about this
very thing. This is not the coaches fault. A coach can't create talent. I
think Provo fans will continue to fill the stadium on beautiful fall afternoons
-- the food is good and the atmosphere is fun for the kids. The football stinks
but that isn't going to change. Mangum would be a good QB if he had help --
his O-line is slow and unathletic, his receivers are junior college level, his
running backs are junior college level. No game plan is going to work magic with
this bunch. Give em a break folks -- they are doing their best out there but
they are just out gunned. I would be surprised to see more than 3 wins this
We have a good defense and a pretty poor offense. Detmer needs to use schemes
that will capitalize on his guys' talents and best abilities. Maybe his
dream of running a Pro-Style offense at BYU will need to remain only a dream for
now. But I know one thing for sure: if I see one more play where all of our OL
attempt to chop block the defense and the only ones lying on the ground
afterwards are our O-linemen, I'm gonna throw up.
A number of thoughts:1. BYU has played two tough opponents. Give them
some slack. They'll be playing patsies soon enough and a lot of these
problems will "go away". We'll be back to thinking we're the
best by the end of the season.2. Coaches do not seem to be teaching and
coaching well. If receivers are not running crisp routes, if linemen are not
picking up blitzes, if the QB is not seeing the field right, if the punter is
making crazy decisions to try and fake punt, if head coaching decisions were a
bit better with game management, if, if, if...it really does seem some better
coaching might help.3. Independent status is hurting recruiting. There
was a noticeable difference between the Utah players and the BYU players.
Athleticism, conditioning, strength need improvement. It tragic that BYU has a
stadium, a history, a brand that should be at the P5 level...but the play does
not match P5 play.
Sir Robin,Do you actually think that getting into a G5 would improve
recruiting chances?I think you are dead wrong.Staying
independent with ESPN is a far greater benefit for recruits, we're not
winning all of our games but we're playing way beyond anything that any G5
team gets to play year in and year out.Recruiting increases with a
G5 is utter nonsense, it would have the opposite effect.Ty Detmer
might wind up being a good OC, he might not, jury is still out on it, it takes
some time to learn the system. Case in point, Troy Tailor, looks pretty good
against BYU, you might want to hold judgment back until you hit your PAC
schedule this year, aside from a really amazing small QB (likely to be injured)
- give Ty and Troy some time.As for optimism - do you really think
that optimism in unique to BYU? seriously.
I don't want to hear BYU doesn't have P5 talent, give me a break!
Seriously! Enough with that nonsense. The recruiting and excitement
around the program are sky high. If anyone says differently I
question their knowledge of sports. The problem is with Heaps - I mean Mangum.
He has no vision. He can't see wide open receivers. His arm
strength is a joke. His passes are way off. How long are people going to make
excuses for him? Seriously? It's Heaps all over again. If,
and I mean a big if, if he could complete passes, the run game would open up.
You've got Trinnaman that runs a 4.3 and he can't throw him the ball.
That's not P5 talent? Shumway has a 38 inch vertical, that's not P5
talent? Bushman is an NFL tight end for sure!Stop making excuses
and replace Mangum.
Fans and Y administration need to be patient with Sitaki. He is a good coach
and will do the best with the talent he can recruit. BUT, they also need to pay
him enough that he doesn't wander off to another job in a few years. BYU has a good football legacy and it is worth saving, but like Coach
Whittingham says, You're either all in or in the way. BYU and owners of
the school need to go all in or throw in the towel.
I look forward to it seeing how much better they can be, how much they will
grow.They can make this happen.
When was the last time BYU beat a good P5 team that ended the season with a
winning record? When was the last time BYU beat a team that ended the season
ranked?An finally when was the last time BYU beat multiple ranked teams in
the same season?I understand optimism but there was no logical
reason to think BYU would beat LSU, Utah, or Wisconsin, much less come away with
multiple wins against those teams.
DEW Cougars,"Don't worry give Coach Kalani Sitake and Ty
Detmer more time. I think we will be fine starting end of September"You mean, when the schedule lightens up? During that time you're
proposing to give them, other teams will be whooping BYU left and right. But
that's okay, they just need more time.They will "look
better" in November when they play Bo Diddley Tech college and fans will
think they fixed all of their problems, then go into the off season with an ego
and "new sheriff" garbage. Rinse and repeat. This happens every year.
OK, wanna know how to fix BYU-Provo football? Here goes...Problem:
Lack of talent. BYU-P recruiting is terrible.Solution: Get into a G5
conference ASAP. At least the decline in recruiting will bottom out.Problem: Bad OC.Solution: Stop living in the past! Your former heroes
may have been great players but they are lousy coaches. I don't care if
Detmer invented football - he can't teach it. The fact that his only
coaching experience is high school should tell you that.Problem: Too
great of expectations.Solution: Stop listening to the media. Start
questioning what they say. Every year you fans buy their schtick. Every year
you're let down. Embrace the fact that you're a solid mid-major
program (nothing more, nothing less) and you might find happiness in your
I don't believe Mangum is the problem. He's proven, having shined as a
freshman. What's changed since then? Bless Detmer. Be as kind and
gentle and diplomatic as possible . . . but after a year plus, it might be time
to say it just isn't working. I wouldn't let him go, though, unless
you have in mind someone who can come in and be a definite upgrade.
People need to stop protecting Ty Detmer. He can do no wrong to Cougar fans.Reality: BYU's offense is the worst its been in decades. Who is the
ultimate responsibility of the offense? Ty Detmer and Kalani Sitaki.A good OC will adjust the offense to the personnel, not the other way around.
People are crazy wanting to wait for Ty to learn or get the guys he needs for
his offense".Have fun waiting another 5 years while getting
whooped by your rival!
CBSSports has BYU ranked #24...in their bottom 25. The Aggies even got off that
I'm so tired of the doom and gloom.We looked horrible so far.
We won the game we should have won by not so much, we lost the game we should
have lost and looked horrible, we lost the toss-up to a team that also looked
horrible.You don't fire the coaches over something like that -
work through the year, even a disappointing year, work through it, find your new
talent, find the identity, and keep on cheering.No fair weather fan
here - I can be critical but I wear blue to the games I get to go to and I
don't see this as a waste of a year, each team has bad years, whatever,
we'll fight for a bowl game rather than cruising to one, we've got
good players coming in, a good coaching staff, might take longer than expected
to get things right, we can wait.Get the running game fixed, I think
we found our backs - why did we wait this long? Get separation from the
receivers, tell Tanner to snap out of it or put in somebody with fire in his
bones.Most big teams get warm-ups to figure this out, Utah looks
horrible too, problem is that we need to be warmed up early, the team might get
there, but firing people and jumping to a lesser conference is foolish talk.
According to BYU fans the conversation in Green Bay in 1992 must have sounded
something like this:A: We've got a quarterback coming from the
Falcons. He's in his second year, what should we do to help him
progress?B: How about we draft Ty Detmer to teach him how to play
football?Later that year...Favre throws in his second season
(Detmer's rookie season) half as many yards and touchdowns as Detmer would
in his entire NFL career.
There are some very thoughtful comments posted here. I confess that I am one of
those who are disappointed in the play of Mangum and his receivers though.
Mangum knew all summer long that he would be the starter. Maybe that was a bad
idea? The receivers should have been motivated to compete for starter status?
Execution has been very poor, and it really takes a lot out of me. I don't
know how much more I can take of this.
This isn't just about the Utah game. This is about 12 quarters of less than
acceptable football on the offensive side of the ball. I should say pathetic
really when you throw in Portland St. 20 points against them is an
embarrassment. I recall beating teams like them 56-0 or 63-7, not a 20-6 game.
If you can't move a team downfield, you need to be replaced. Look at what
Riley Nelson did when Jake Heaps laid an egg. You need to be an inspirational
leader, not throw your hands up when you get back to the sideline. Where's
the flair passes to a running back? Where's the draw plays BYU was famous
for? Mangum looks like a deer in the headlights player right now. Wake him up,
start Kody wilstead instead of Mangum. Kody does fair, keep him in.
Here's something for Holmoe to work on.... get the best teams left in G5
from the East and West that are in decent sized markets and form a new
conference. Play 5 league games in your division and 3 league games
in the opposite division. This means each team would have to make 1-2 trips to
the Eastern US each year for conference play. New conference could
probably get a decent contract from ESPN and get 1 guaranteed spot in a NY6
game:WESTAir Force Boise StateBYUSDSUColorado St.UNLV or San Jose St.EASTS. FloridaCinciTempleHoustonNavyUConn
Anyone who has given up and is accepting the fact that BYU will always be a
mediocre program, and that we have less than superior athletes is certainly
coming from a giant universe of lack and fear and forgets, or has never learned
what the great sport of football teaches-grit, grind, and always compete. Yep, it's frustrating when things don't go your way, but since when
in your life has everything or even most of the things gone your way? The start
of this season hasn't been what we fans have wanted, but just like Coach
Detmer stated, his senior season, they opened up 0 for 3. Who remembers that?
Nobody! The only things we remember about BYU football and Ty Detmer is that
Detmer picked apart the U, the real U, Miami; that he was one of the toughest
guys on the field having subluxed both his shoulders in games where he'd be
helped off the field and then would return the next series throwing dimes, and
his Heisman. Do we remember the teams' past struggles-not really. Give
this offense more time, give this team more time. Give the coaching staff more
time to tinker and make the adjustments with the personnel. Cougar
nation--especially all you in Utah Co.--RELAX let it happen!
I loved watching Ty as a player and like him as a person, but as a coach, he
really just doesn't know how to organize BYU's offense. An Offense is
a complex 'System' of breaking down positions and organizing
practices, designing and calling the right plays, adjusting to the defense and
TEACHING. Very, very few great coaches were star players. Contrary
to what Harmon et al have fed us, Ty is apparently an abysmal Teacher of the
Game. Heck, he doesn't even know what plays to call.The bigger
problem is: Who will do it better at the level we pay our coaches? By missing
the 'BCS Bounce' (winning multiple BCS games that TCU and Utah did),
BYU missed their chance to go to a P5 conference. They are now doomed to wander
the earth as Independents, missing out on that rich P5 Conference Payout. They
are Have-Nots and now will never be able to afford better coaches or recruit the
athletes you see on Utah and other P5 teams. The only way out of
this mess is to win and EARN our way to a P5 conference. And that, my friends,
won't happen with this staff of Offensive Coaches or level of athletes.
What's most concerning to me are the fickle fans. 7 in a
row!Is no fluke... nice to that word go away. 😂
I always love the urban legend tales about how Detmer taught Favre how to put on
shoulder pads and throw a pass. Detmer may have been able to help Favre, but
none of the young men at quarterback for our little blue brothers have anything
like Favre's skills and savvy. Urban legend tales are meant to
draw attention away from Detmer's obviously limited experience as a coach
of small school football. They all ignore the reality that Favre is Canton Ohio
Hall of Fame bound, while Detmer's current students are playing like they
are Hall of Shame bound.
Wasn't Detmer's job before becoming OC for BYU as a high school coach?
Are you kidding me! This season reminds me of when Detmer passed for 7
interceptions in one game playing for the Detroit Lions...only worse.
It all centered on going independent as a knee-jerk reaction to the Utes going
to the PAC 12. Independence hurt recruiting a whole lot. Not having anything
to play for after the first loss of the year hurts, too. This
entire scenario is aggravated by the media hype every pre-season, along with the
readiness of the gullible faithful to buy into the fiction that is being sold.
1984..."BYU is being taught offensive football by the same guy
who taught Brett Favre how to put on shoulder pads and how to throw a
pass."Are you feeling ok? I'm concerned. You're saying the Detmer (drafted 1992), who threw a career total of
roughly 6000 yards and 30ish touchdowns, taught Favre (Drafted 1991), to throw
3000+ yards and 17 touchdowns in 1992, how to throw the ball?Interesting logic.
As an Independent, BYU does have to prepare and play a tough conference each
year like the SEC, PAC 12 and Big 10. So for LSU to play a BYU was really
nothing for them. They should have beat BYU by much more but it was their 1st
game. Utah is in a tough conference and mentally prepares for big games, but
BYU is not really a big deal for them anymore. Wisconsin wool not leave Provo
with a loss either. Not sure what BYU could do to be better prepared other than
join a TOUGH conference. Or be accepted in.
Wow, talk about overreaction. I'm an outsider so maybe I can provide an
objective perspective.BYU's defense is solid - no problem
there. Yes BYU's offense is struggling to find it's
identity but has finally found a running back (the 255lb. guy - forgot his
name). If you run him 15-20 times a game and then mix in a few runs from Dye I
think BYU has serviceable running backs. Tanner will actually have to run
(designed runs) 3-4 times a game too to keep the defense honest. Passing game: Now it's just a matter of putting Mangum in a position to
get the ball out of his hands without all the defensive pressure in his face.
Mix in more short routes screens, slants, drags, sit downs and then try the
routes that take longer to develop once the other team's safeties creep up
(posts, fly, wheel). The BYU receivers need to continue to work on separation
techniques. BYU has been slow at the WR position for ages and it's never
hampered their pass game in the past. It will all come together for the Y....
take a deep breath and relax.
You know we have some bad time in past. I believe coach Lavell Edward came close
to being axed back in his early 70's. Don't worry give Coach Kalani
Sitake and Ty Detmer more time. I think we will be fine starting end of
September. Go ahead say it "Wait Till Next Year," come on Cougar Fans
just calm down and yes I am not too thrill what happened against LSU and other
This Team has had all Spring ,Summer and Fall Camp to figure things out and they
come right out to start the season shooting blanks ... You have got to be
kidding me !!
"Receivers? Linemen? The kicking game? Missed assignments? Penalties? Media?
Whoever didn't protect the Cougar statue in plastic wrap during rivalry
week?All of the above?"This is starting to read like
Hillary Clinton's fictional novella about the 2016 election.
The pileup - which is BYU's current state of affairs - started in 2010 when
BYU went independent, which led to unrealistic fan expectations, front-loaded
schedules, getting man-handled on national TV, etc.Tom Holmoe either
needs to schedule G5s in September, or get BYU back into the Mountain West
Conference. Right now, they're wandering in the wilderness...
"7th setback to rival Utah "Here in the real world we call
it a loss.
After hearing all summer that the cougs were going to win this year because the
"new sheriff" and something about "being afraid" and a
"pendulum", I think byu fans need to stop jumping in the time machine,
over hyping everything and pretending you're relevant today. Byu plateaued
under Bronco, now the reality of Indy is rearing its ugly head, and the program
is declining. Coug fans just need to accept the fact that this is
the way it'll be for the foreseeable future. That doesn't mean
it'll only get worse, or it won't get better, but without a good
conference and the same old restrictions of recruiting good players and coaches
to the whY?, will probably never change. Resulting in the product of a
mid-major team. If I'm wrong, then what have you done since going the
independent route? It's not 1984 anymore, and the college football
landscape has changed drastically since then!
BYU is being taught offensive football by the same guy who taught Brett Favre
how to put on shoulder pads and how to throw a pass.Problem is, they
don't have quality P-5 skill position players. No coach can make up for a
lack of talent.