In our opinion: Hollywood, Hefner and hypocrisy in the sexual revolution

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  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:15 p.m.

    @Mick
    [There were hundreds of allegations of drugging and rapes in the grotto at Hefner’s “parties.” Hundreds. But perhaps like you, any female with a complaint was dismissed because it was assumed they were there for one reason only.]

    Well then it's a good thing I don't approve of Hefner anyway.

    My point was, in responding to someone who argued that lefties only carried about the Hollywood Access tape because it was Trump, that consent (specifically the lack thereof) is the thing that ticked people off most with the Hollywood Access tape. Sub Trump out with anyone and I'd still be disgusted with it.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 9, 2017 5:36 p.m.

    This is a tricky subject to discuss in 1200 characters. Especially since the Judeo-Christian standard has been ignored or abandoned by so many for so long. Morality has always, always had those who made their own rules. And this cuts across almost all groups of people. Trump is not my idea of a moral hero; but, neither is Hefner, the Clintons, and others. Lately, there has been a lot of ''Pots calling kettles'' names.

  • Mick , 00
    Oct. 9, 2017 3:15 p.m.

    Utahbluedevil-

    His attorney dumped him because it is Gloria Allred’s daughter. Not good to have your daughter representing scum bag predators while you “protect” his victims. And did you read his confession/statement? He is a criminal and needs to go to jail

    I really can’t believe you tried to defend any of Hollywood’s or Weinstein’s action’s

    Frozen fract-

    There were hundreds of allegations of drugging and rapes in the grotto at Hefner’s “parties.” Hundreds. But perhaps like you, any female with a complaint was dismissed because it was assumed they were there for one reason only.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 9, 2017 1:18 p.m.

    "Let's be truthful, at the time of that tape Trump was a liberal contributing to Democrats. He saw the light and became a Republican and since then his lived a moral life."

    I missed this one.... that is truly funny. And what was that date of this miraculous conversion? I think a lot of missed that. Was that after his disgusting remarks to Megan Kelly about .... never mind.

    I will admit, getting older does take certain lifestyle things off the table.

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    Oct. 9, 2017 10:20 a.m.

    In our opinion: Hollywood, Hefner and hypocrisy in the sexual revolution

    Yes - hypocrites...

    When Donald Trump learned that then-girlfriend Marla Maples was pregnant with Tiffany, Trump said, “Excuse me, what happened?” and “Oh, great”— Trump said on The Howard Stern Show.

    “I’m glad it happened. I have a great little daughter, Tiffany,” Trump told his pal Stern in the 2004 interview. “But, you know, at the time it was like, ‘Excuse me, what happened?’ And then I said, ‘Well, what are we going to do about this?’ [implying, getting an abortion]
    [Marla] said, ‘Are you serious? It’s the most beautiful day of our lives.’ I said, ‘Oh, great.’”

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Oct. 9, 2017 10:13 a.m.

    Ah so funny so funny. I just want to hear one particular democrat, that keeps telling us one of the reasons she loss, was misogyny, stand up and separate herself from Harvey for what he has done over the years.

    And don't defend her saying it is old news, she is still taking shots to be in the party limelight. Her continued actions or inactions are fair game.

  • dmcvey Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 9, 2017 9:06 a.m.

    @Fred44 Trying to paint this as just a liberal thing won't work. In addition to the President and his appalling behavior there is also the corporate climate of Fox News where harassment seems to have been a daily thing coming from the top.

  • dmcvey Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 8, 2017 11:49 p.m.

    Your article left out Fox News, which has been in a controversy just like Weinstien except that he never preached family values.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 10:25 p.m.

    @Fred44 "Let's be truthful, at the time of that tape Trump was a liberal contributing to Democrats. He saw the light and became a Republican and since then his lived a moral life."

    And you know this how?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 8, 2017 9:56 p.m.

    @Joe - you asked..

    "If you are willing to stand up in front of a crowd and loudly condemn Donald Trump or any other Republican for doing something that you would give liberals a shrug for doing the same things or even worse, then you are a hypocrite."

    But you do realize the man was fired by the company that caries his name, campaign donations to democrats returned to him, and his lawyer resigned from his employment. Sounds like more than a "shrug". In fact it was a "liberal/progressive" paper that broke the story. So not sure what you are referring to.

    Let's be clear, the last two years has exposed a generation of business men that really abused their positions..... we have this man who has admitted he acted improperly, and another that bragged about his exploits to a reporter and on the Howard Stern show. One "Republican" ( I still say he isn't a conservative ), and one a Democrat. Creepy old men are not the sole province of either party.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 8, 2017 4:04 p.m.

    Come on libs, using Trump and his Hollywood Access tape to say Republicans are as bad as Democrats. Let's be truthful, at the time of that tape Trump was a liberal contributing to Democrats. He saw the light and became a Republican and since then his lived a moral life.

  • no fit in SG St.George, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 3:09 p.m.

    On the anniversary of the leader of the United States "Access Hollywood" tape.....
    Why is there not more about Trump?
    There is so much available about Donald Trump's sexual dalliances and abuse of women, as he is interviewed by radio hosts, TV moderators, along with information in books that are written about Trump.
    Why is Trump not discussed more as one of the causes of moral decay and abuse of women?

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 1:37 p.m.

    @1covey
    "sounds as though if it were Hefner on the Hollywood access tape, there would have been cheers instead of jeers from the liberals."

    No, because sexual assault is different from promiscuous consenting relationships (which I still wouldn't cheer but the key difference is consent).

  • illuminated Kansas City, MO
    Oct. 8, 2017 1:21 p.m.

    Before feminism, men had authority over their wives, but they also had to take full responsiblity to provide and protect for them as well. Back then women never needed to worry about working or providing for their families. Their duty was to nurture their children and husbands. This was actually a great life for women. Abuse was dealt with and was rare.

    This is the natural way men and women are designed to run a family. If you believe in evolution, we evolved that way. If you believe in God, He made us that way.

    The sexual revolution is just one of many symptoms of these tried and tested gender roles being artificially perverted. Nations with egalitarian family laws and cultures like the US have very high divorce rates, high sex promiscuity, and don't even have replacement level population replacement.

    If you want to fix the family, you return to patriarchal gender roles. That means removing some privileges from women and returning family authority to men. There is no other way.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 11:04 a.m.

    @scrappy do
    It's hard to sort out rape stats because reporting is higher than it used to be and women have more rights these days. There weren't even any laws about marital rape until the 1970s.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 10:50 a.m.

    Hypocrisy means holding people you agree with politically to an entirely different standard than the standard to which you hold your political enemies.

    If you are willing to stand up in front of a crowd and loudly condemn Donald Trump or any other Republican for doing something that you would give liberals a shrug for doing the same things or even worse, then you are a hypocrite.

    For the record, although I am a conservative I fully support it when someone in the Republican party is exposed and thrown out of office when they do something that I would be disgusted with if a Democrat did it. Cosby, Weinstein, and Ailes have done some despicable things to women. They and others like them should get the same kind of treatment. Send them to jail if they committed actual crimes.

    The rich and powerful will always get special treatment, but since the media became an arm of the DNC, it seems that all liberals and Democrats get that same treatment.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 10:43 a.m.

    Hollywood and hypocrisy are synonyms

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    Oct. 8, 2017 10:43 a.m.

    Yes, there were men who treated women as sex objects before the Sexual Revolution. But it was less. The reason I know is that is the feminization of poverty became an issue in the late 1970's and early 1980's. The feminization of poverty was caused by out-of-wedlock births. This happened despite the Pill and abortion.

    The point of equality between men and women is to get rid of the double standards that said it was for ok for men to fool around but not for women. There is two ways that can go. 1) (Some) men need to straighten up and be like the women OR 2) the women can fool around like (some of) the men.

    We picked the wrong option which gave us this stuff and the feminization of poverty. Somewhere I think that Hugh Hefner and others were going, "If we get true equality then we can't make money selling sex so let's co-opt it."

    While we are on the topic what about the Steinhem Standard? When Bill Clinton messed with Monica Lewinsky Gloria Steinhem, feminist icon, said it is ok for a male supervisor to proposition a female subordinate just as long, the supervisor does not retaliate for being turned down.

    I guess that has been finally thrown out.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 10:25 a.m.

    Mom jeans says:

    "... unfortunately this type of behavior is considered normal to libs."

    In case you haven't noticed, one of the men mentioned was a Conservative, Anti-abortion, dyed-in-the-wool Republican.

    @Mom jeans and scrappydoo;

    In case you haven't noticed, CONSERVATIVES elected a man that completely fits the description of "predator" to the office of President of the USA.

    Mike Richards says:

    "...we personally live our lives as closely as possible to the doctrine given us by Christ..."

    --- When are you going to start? I've read your comments for a long while now, and again, when do you plan to start?

    @L White;

    The OT also commands us to stone adulterers and fornicator and eaters of shellfish and wearers of mixed fibers. Should we do that?

    @Elsleuith;

    You left Trump out of your list.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Oct. 8, 2017 9:51 a.m.

    This editorial correctly identifies crimes against women as a serious problem in our society and then asserts a spurious claim as to its cause. Sexual predators cause predation - period. Trying to tie it to anything else causes injury to the efforts to protect the victims of these crimes.

  • Yar Springville, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 9:31 a.m.

    Ah, the sexual revolution. The movement dedicated to seeking out lustful desires at any cost, especially at other people’s expense.

  • LOU Montana Pueblo, CO
    Oct. 8, 2017 9:21 a.m.

    Mom's jeans man is gone; Did you miss all the sexual harrassment lawsuits at FOX News?

    Did you miss Tim Murphy, anti-abortion congressman, telling his mistress to get an abortion.

    Did you miss Dennis Hastert going to jail for his behavior.

    Did you miss Trump's hidden mike interview. His handling of women?

    What about Larry Craig, Mark Foley and Jerry Sandusky?

    So this guy disgraceful, how is this a lib only issue?

  • Beowulf Portland, OR
    Oct. 8, 2017 9:10 a.m.

    To LDS Liberal: The editorial DID mention Tim Murphy.

    Please read it all the way through.

    And, yes, the sexual revolution and "free love" has a lot of grief to answer for.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 8, 2017 8:44 a.m.

    @Maudine - it's always easier to blame "hollywood" rather than taking personal responsibility for supporting things that don't match ones own claimed values is always way easier. If it isn't Hollywood, then its unions, or foreigners, or the big bad government.

    The ironic thing about this article is Hefner's rise coincided with the fight for more and equal rights for women. How much better to keep "women in their place" other than to objectify them. When women started wanting a seat at the table - a group of cigar smoking brandy swirling men decided they wanted to create a club and magazine dedicated to casting women in a totally different light. It was about the sexual revolution - but in a much broader context then some cheesy magazine. It was trying to fight back the tide of equality - a battle some from both sides are still fighting today.

    Hefner largely lost his battle.... but the war is still raging on without him.

  • kreese Ivins, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 7:51 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal

    You forgot to mention Bill Clinton.

  • SMcloud Sandy, UT
    Oct. 8, 2017 1:54 a.m.

    This isn't a liberal/conservative issue. I'm not sure why people frame it this way.

    People with absolute power will corrupt absolutely. That is on both sides of the aisle, in every industry and on every continent. This happened before and after the pill, before and after the sexual revolution.

  • Mick , 00
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:23 p.m.

    Lds lib-

    That's the hypocrisy. Hollywood has never been the "banner of sexual purity" but many of the actresses go after Donald Trump for his indiscretions but won't say a word about Bill Clinton or Harvey Weinstein or Hugh Hefner. (Ashlie Judd, Meryl Streep).

    Hollywood made it political, not about the true protection of women. The liberal supporters get free pass.

  • vern001 Castle Rock, CO
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:14 p.m.

    The rape and sexual assault of women by powerful men has been going on for millennia. This can hardly be blamed on the sexual revolution. That it is hypocritical of the Harvey Weinsteins and Tim Murphys of the world to behave as they did is true. But I don't think we can blame the pill or the decline of marriage for rape and assault.

  • Elsleuith Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 7:10 p.m.

    How would Hugh Hefner, Bill Clinton, Weinstein, or Cosby want their sisters treated? Can we assume they wouldn't want their family members to be treated as objects? That is hypocrisy. Unfortunately the media, Hollywood and popular culture turn a blind eye to the "minor indiscretions" of many in the news. It is refreshing to see someone stand for right.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 6:34 p.m.

    @ L White: Huh?

    You stated that adultery was identified as a sin over 2000 years ago - when the Old Testament was written.

    This editorial blames moral failures on Hollywood and Hugh Hefner.

    My comment says only one of you can be correct - if adultery existed before Hollywood and Hefner existed, than they cannot be responsible for it. Unless you believe in time travel, adultery existed before the modern causes so many want to blame.

    At no point in my comment did I mention god, God, or gods.

    So, did sin - including adultery - exist before Hollywood or not?

  • Occidentali Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 7, 2017 4:19 p.m.

    The pill opened the flood gates at a time when the law of chastity was under assault. Meanwhile radical feminists taught women that they are the same as men, which previous generations of women knew was not true. The result has been calamity for men, women, the family and civilization. New technology and new morality cannot overcome the laws of Nature and Nature's God.

  • L White Springville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 3:02 p.m.

    Bubble,

    Are you saying that the Ten Commandnents don't apply today because God loved people enough 3,500 years ago that he didn't want them to destroy themselves or their families? Or, are you saying that Hugh and Harvey are gods? Unfortunately many people have no idea that there is a difference between god and God. They follow whoever tells them what they want to hear.

  • Bubble SLC, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 2:37 p.m.

    @ L White: Wait - did you say the Old Testament identifies adultery as a sin? Wasn’t the Old Testament written over 2000 years ago?

    So - that means adultery predates Hollywood and Hugh Hefner - so how can they be responsible for the things this editorial accuses them of being responsible for?

    I mean, I know Hefner was old, but he wasn’t that old!

  • L White Springville, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 2:20 p.m.

    People will always look to their heroes for guidence. My hero is Christ. As God of the Old Testament, he instructed Moses to tell the world that adultry is a grave sin. When he lived on earth, not only did he emphasize that adultry is a sin, but that even thinking those kinds of thoughts is a sin. In our time, he instructed our Prophets tell the world that marriage is only to be between a man and a woman and that any type of sex outside of marriage is a sin.

    We have a simple choice. We can align our thoughts and actions with Christ, the savior of those who reject the "wisdom" of the world or we can align ourselves with Hugh and Harvey. What authority do Hugh and Harvey have to make eternal promises? Can they even restore trust for those who listen to them? Can they repair broken lives, broken hearts, and broken families? Can they restore dignity? Would you allow Hugh and Harvey to associate with your daughters or granddaughters?

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 12:52 p.m.

    From the comments, sounds as though if it were Hefner on the Hollywood access tape, there would have been cheers instead of jeers from the liberals.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 7, 2017 12:16 p.m.

    It seems to me that either we personally live our lives as closely as possible to the doctrine given us by Christ and eloquently stated in the 13th Article of Faith or we justify outright hated towards other based on prideful thoughts that our openly displayed hatred is less damaging than acts committed by others.

    The devastation caused by magazines sold to embolden men to trivialize women and the actions of Hollywood bigwigs on their casting couches will never be fully known in this life, but, if we read between the lines, it's easy to equate the destruction of millions was caused by those who preyed on appetites and passions. The poison spewed by those people might be slower acting than the venom of a rattlesnake, but in the end the results are nearly the same. The snake causes great damage or death to the body. The other poison causes great damage or death to the soul.

  • Thomas Thompson Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 10:08 a.m.

    Sexual mores, of course, change with the age in which one lives. At one time, polygamy was extolled as a virtue; now, it is not. At one time, certain homosexual activities were criminalized; now, they are not. Thus, trying to establish any standard of sexual conduct which all must follow at all times is probably beyond difficult and a slippery slope on which we should not try to walk.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 10:00 a.m.

    We do have a really hard time with sex. The opposite sex is the object of physical desire, but also a full fledged human being. The abuse of women particularly is rife because we just can't get this straight. And it is spectacularly worse in the so-called third world. The only way out is to achieve equal power for women.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:42 a.m.

    Keep in mind. This op-ed is written by a church owned newspaper that has zero women in power positions (GA's).

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:40 a.m.

    How can Hollywood or Hefner be hypocrites?
    Hollywood has never even tried to hold the banner of 'sexual purity'.

    A "hypocrite" is someone who says one thing,
    and then does the polar opposite.

    Like Donald Trump.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:37 a.m.

    In our opinion: Hollywood, Hefner and hypocrisy in the sexual revolution

    ======

    No --
    What is hypocritical is the Deseret News singling out "Hollywood and Hefner",
    and giving NO mention of:

    Donald Trump - President of the Untied States - and his "Access Hollywood" tapes,
    or Rep. Tim Murphy who spent years in congress fighting abortion,
    and sponsors a bill fighting abortion,
    and then -- cheating on his wife and family,
    asked his extra martial affair girl friend to have an ABORTION.

  • Bifftacular Spanish Fork, Ut
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:15 a.m.

    What do Hugh Hefner, Bill Clinton, Weinstein, Cosby, and Trump have that the creepy, dirty old men, that society shuns, don't have? Money & power - all other things are equal. With money and power, you can not only sustain your objectification of women for a long time while people look away, you're actually celebrated for it...provided you donate lots of money to the "right" causes and say the right things in public. Look no further than Hefner's deification upon death, and now Weinstein is being defended by none other than so-called women's advocate, Lisa Bloom, who flipped her position on women the second wads of cash passed under her nose.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:12 a.m.

    @ scrappy doo: While your statement is factually true on its face, it ignores a couple of important facts that have contributed to higher numbers:

    1) The definition of rape has changed since the 1960’s - marital rape, male-male rape, and female-male rape are now included; additionally rape no longer requires an explicit “no” - if the victim is unconscious or otherwise incapacitated, or does not feel safe saying “no”, those situations are now counted as rapes.

    2) The social stigma of being a victim of rape has decreased. This makes victims, especially male victims, more likely to come forward.

    Both of these are direct results of the sexual revolution and both of them add to increased reporting of rape. Neither of them mean rape is more prevalent.

  • windsor City, Ut
    Oct. 7, 2017 9:05 a.m.

    "Hollywood, Hefner and hypocrisy"

    Bam!!
    What a slam dunk correct line.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 8:50 a.m.

    Karen is correct. The sexual revolution is an empowerment of women, allowing more exposure of those that would seek to oppress and abuse them. Those that seek to objectify them today would have had an easier time in the past because they would not risk their credibility.
    Also, no mention of the 'access Hollywood' tape. I would recommend everyone review it in its' uncensored form, and consider how we treat those that objectify women.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Oct. 7, 2017 7:48 a.m.

    DN editors

    You don't have to be a "Conservative" to believe that marriage between two committed individuals is a good thing. I think that science has proved that humans seek a stable partnership with another person. Oh, and BTW, this includes our LGBT brothers and sisters.

    However, to assert as you do that the sexual revolution is responsible for the likes of Mr Weinstein and his ilk (could also include the President) for harassing women in the workplace is a stretch. And you should know that.

    Women were chattel and the possession of men long before the Enlightenment in Europe. In fact, today in some cultures women are still seen as mere adornments in patriarchal societies. It comes as no surprise to me that men still believe they may abuse women verbally, physically and sexually with or without sexual revolution.

    Marriage of equals = Good thing. Men demeaning women in relationships work, societal, religious and marital = Continued oppression. And this continued oppression bodes ill for good marriages.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 7:33 a.m.

    Part of having rights is the obligation to accept the consequences.

    The examples you have provided are examples of people refusing to accept the consequences or blatantly violating others right of self-determination by using coercion.

    It has nothing to do with marriage or the lack thereof.

  • scrappy do DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 7:17 a.m.

    This guy is just the golden tip of the liberal hypocrite spear... I actually saw a glowing obit on Hefner written by a female member of congress who is of course a Democrat... You would have thought that Hefner, the man who lead the way in objectifying women, glamorizing pornography and the degradation of women should be up for sainthood.... Have you ever seen the historical crime rates for rape... The stats show an amazing increase since 1960 that continues unabated even though murders and property crimes which rocketed up thru the 1970's thru the 1990's have dropped off a bit. It's as if the Dems and liberals opened a Pandora's box on the poor treatment of women ... Our forefathers would be rightfully appalled

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Oct. 7, 2017 6:56 a.m.

    Another thought in response to this baseless argument:

    Nothing about female emancipation said, "Okay, guys. You no longer have to be responsible for your behavior." What a complete cop out.

    The reality is that the increasing empowerment of women is precisely why the Weinstein's and the Tim Murphy's and the Bill O'Reilly's and the Bill Cosby's and the Roger Ailes' of this world are increasingly being exposed. Men are finally, finally being held accountable. Way to go, ladies! Full steam ahead!

  • Mom jeans man is gone Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 7, 2017 6:28 a.m.

    hypocrisy is an understatement. unfortunately this type of behavior is considered normal to libs.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Oct. 7, 2017 6:13 a.m.

    Right. Hypocrisy and sexual predation by males in positions of power weren't a problem until the "sexual revolution."