If you aren't upstanding and walking the straight and narrow this makes you
an OK target for a bullet to the back? Oops - No repentance available for that
Why must we be gunslingers? Are there non-lethal solutions to confrontation? In
East Los Angeles there were when I lived there. Of course there are! Can't
a cop fight? Does he have a taser or a spray, a club or a rubber bullet?
Who's at fault for the slaughter of a man? Not the untried, unstable guy
who instantly gets a steel bullet for being disturbed and unlawful (probably a
nice guy with a family). Not the officer (probably a nice guy with a family) who
received base training to be rash, afraid and brutal with a single deadly
weapon. -- So who's at fault? The people who accept this and say,
"That's the way it has to be." Mainly those leaders who love brutal
LDSAZ -Do you justify this criminal fleeing the police?Nice spin! I do it for a living. Are you aware the reason why he was stopped?
Many cops for a single bicycle infraction. Do you truly believe the response
would have been identical if this was a white man on his bicycle from Federal
Heights? If so this only further proves a gross disconnect. Ask your "many
black friends" if they agree. Furthermore. You have no idea regarding the
facts of his warrants, "criminal activity" or if in fact he attempted to
seek assistance for his condition. This is called hearsay comrade. In
conclusion. No knife. No weapons. The man was shot 3 times in his back! Care to
place a wager the outcome after the federal investigation? Thank you and keep
digging! "Yes I have many black friends". Yes,
I'm certain you believe this. Casa Grande, AZ...49.9% White. 4.9% African
American! If this statement is accurate, which I highly doubt ask your "many
black friends" to watch the video, then ask them the identical questions you
did of me. Guarantee these supposed "many black friends" will be friends
no longer! "Yes I have been out of Utah many many times, even
lived.."For roughly two years.
Cactus Pete -"So tell us Liberal on Planet Zion what could Sim
Gill, District Attorney for Salt Lake County, possibly know about this case that
he based his decision on? Could it be possible that he has more inside
information about this case than what you've been able to extract from
inaccurate news accounts"?Gladly comrade! I've been a
practicing defense attorney for nearly 20 years. May I ask the last time you
defended someone accused of a crime? How about any case involving police
brutality? Capital murder? Possibly it is I that possesses much more "inside
information" then you were aware. Furthermore. Care to cite examples
regarding the "inaccurate news accounts"? Epic fail! Thank you and keep
digging. "Perhaps the one who is clueless here is the liberal
and not Sim Gill".Deep yawn...States the poster which has never
once walked into a courtroom as the defense attorney.
JMHO - "You are the one who needs to get a clue. What makes you the
purveyor of all that is right. You have no idea what the social make-up is of
those who are posting. Many of them could have more insight than you. The
problem you have is you think that by saluting diversity that makes you
superior".Deep yawn...Apologize for the delayed response. Are
you attempting to tell me that I'm incorrect regarding the demographic in
the state of Utah? That in fact it is not 82% white and nearly 65% of the
population are Mormon? Your complaint should be taken up with Wikipedia since
this was the source used! Never did I imply or mention anything regarding
insight. Furthermore. I believe anyone which "salutes diversity" or
embraces diversity is in fact socially superior. Our countries backbone is and
always has been its acceptance of immigrants, regardless of religious beliefs!
For example. The Mormon settlers being forced from several locations prior to
settling in Utah. Thank you and keep digging!
Facts not in dispute, bad guy pulls a knife on the cops. By definition, a knife
is a dangerous weapon capable of inflicting injury or death.The very
definition of Utah's deadly force statute allows the use of deadly force in
these instances.Let the FBI do their investigation. They are not
going to find anything different than Gill did.While I sympathize
with the family, maybe they should have been a little more pro-active about
trying to get him to stop his criminal behavior and get him back on the straight
and narrow way.
Calm heads need to prevail. The FBI should investigate and be given the time to
do it correctly. It is a sad loss for his family and friends. It is also a
reminder of why a life of crime doesn't pay. In the end everyone is hurt by
it - society, the person, their family. The police should be held accountable
for their actions. At the same time we are rapidly descending into a society
where it has become a thankless and much more dangerous job to be a cop. Not
sure why anyone wants to be one anymore. It wouldn't be worth the stress
and pay. Glad there are people still willing to do the job. Give the
FBI a chance to get to the truth and then go from there with what should or
shouldn't happen on either end.
@Utah Girl Chronicles"How many white bicyclists around here end
up getting blown away by a cop?"Every one of them who flees the
police who has a record of being a violent criminal. Are you ok now?
I am 65 years old and have never been shot by the police. when i have been
stopped by the police, i do as i am told.. i do NOT try to escape. I
don't carry knives with me... I take of anylegal problems before it
becomes necessary to issue a warrant. This is NOT about skin color. This is
about obeying the law, and complying with officers orders.
Utah Girl Chronicles - Eagle Mountain, UT asks "why not call off this chase
and catch up with the guy later?"Maybe Utah Girl is right. Why
bother to chase anybody for fear the suspect might get hurt? Think of all the
money we could save if we fired all the police, opened the jail doors, and look
the other way when crimes are committed.
If police commonly call off police car chases when they realize the
public's safety is being endangered, why not call off this chase and catch
up with the guy later? How many white bicyclists around here end up getting
blown away by a cop?
A slowed down version of the video shows the suspect turning towards toward the
police. To many people in our society have no respect for law enforcement. Do
as the police say and you won't get shot. If there are concerns about
police misconduct contact an attorney of file a complaint with the department.
Most cops are decent. A few are not.
Liberal from planet...What part of this story has anything
whatsoever to do with any religion? In particular, you singled out members of
the LDS faith.I've read, and re-read this story. I cannot, for the
life of me see where either the officer, or the criminal is mentioned as being
attached to any religion at all. I've also read all of the comments.
I don't see where anyone has cited their own religion, let alone used it as
a basis for their opinion. Any suggestion that anybody has based their
opinion of this story, or this topic in general upon their religious beliefs,
ignores this story in it's entirety, and is an attempt to turn it into an
argument totally unrelated.
Cinci-"Settle down. Relax. Try to focus on facts that you know, rather
than ranting about things you choose to ignore".States the Trump
voter/enabler. The defending of open mic sexual assault. The defending of
bigotry. The defending of misogyny and all matters regarding your supreme
leader! It is beyond sickening. "You have made a lot of hateful
statements about people you know nothing about. So how much better are you than
those you blast"?Such as? Specifics. My statements are deemed
"hateful" because they are 100% accurate and you disagree? Epic fail!
You have no issues supporting Trump and his continued hateful rhetoric. "There are stories about whites being shot and killed by police
officers also. It's not a race thing".I'm certain
there are. Not my point in the least. Desire to compare the sample size?
Especially outside the booming metropolis of Ft. Mitchell. "No
officer considers the race of someone with a gun or knife running from the
police or running at the police".State this to the victims! No
gun. No visible knife. Man was shot in the back 3 times! "Control your anger please".This should be directed
towards your supreme leader comrade. Thank you.
Liberal On Planet ZionDo you justify this criminal fleeing the
police?Do you justify his criminal activity identified by outstanding
warrants?Were all the outstanding warrants the result of an arrest by a
white officer?We are jurors and judges white? Were all his victims
white?Do you justify his illegal actions on his bike?Do you justify
his not getting medical attention for his medical conditions expressed by his
family?Do you justify his knife? (not proven otherwise yet that it was not
his)Do you justify resisting arrest just because he's black with a
criminal record?Are blacks the only ones arrested for criminal behavior by
whites?Do you justify the horror he inflicted on these officers and the
public?Yes I have many black friends.Yes I have been out of
Utah many many times, even lived outside of Utah.Yes, I wish this guy
hadn't fled police. Yes, I wish he hadn't been killed. Yes, I wish he
wouldn't have put his family through this. Yes, I wish he hadn't put
the police through this. And I especially wish he hadn't put you through
@Liberal On Planet Zion - SLC, UTSo tell us Liberal on Planet Zion
....... what could Sim Gill, District Attorney for Salt Lake County, possibly
know about this case that he based his decision on? Could it be possible that
he has more inside information about this case than what you've been able
to extract from inaccurate news accounts?Perhaps the one who is
clueless here is the liberal and not Sim Gill.
Liberal:You are the one who needs to get a clue. What makes you the
purveyor of all that is right. You have no idea what the social make-up is of
those who are posting. Many of them could have more insight than you. The
problem you have is you think that by saluting diversity that makes you
@Liberal On Planet ZionSettle down. Relax. Try to focus on facts
that you know, rather than ranting about things you choose to ignore. You have
made a lot of hateful statements about people you know nothing about. So how
much better are you than those you blast? There are stories about whites being
shot and killed by police officers also. It's not a race thing. No
officer considers the race of someone with a gun or knife running from the
police or running at the police. Have you noticed that black and white officers
and even officers of other races face the same life and death situations? And
officers of all walks of life are involved in these quick decisions. And I
would bet that you personally know very few of those who have commented, but you
are quick to label them according to your delight. You are not very credible.
In fact, you sound as though you are in a world as small as you accuse others of
living in. May I suggest that you do not flee from police, no matter your race
or the race of the officers talking to you? I hope you will remain safe.
Control your anger please.
What should society expect from the police who are hired and appointed to
protect us from those who disrepect the law? What about the "outstanding
warrants"? Should someone who has "outstanding warrants" NOT be
considered to be a grave risk to society? What about the knife? Should a
police officer NOT use lethal force until AFTER the officer is stabbed? What
about the responsibility of the person who is stopped by the police? The
offense may have been minor. He crossed multiple lanes of traffic without a
tail light. He put motorists in danger. He pretended that his actions were of
no significance. He brandished a knife. Responsible people would
agree that the police officers were not only justified in using deadly force but
that they were required to do so to protect our innocent population who have a
right to be protected from those who ignore bench warrants, who have a right to
be protected from those who brandish a knife against police officer, who have a
right to expect the police to do what they have to do to protect the rest of
society from those who break our laws.
I don't see in the video how the criminal had time to pull out a knife and
open it. I hope frame by frame analysis can determine this. It all happened so
The low information enabling crowd stating one dimensional opinions. Most of
which have never stepped one foot outside the state of Utah besides a two year
controlled environment. Do those justifying the shooting of this man three times
in his back while fleeing...How many of you have black friends? How many of you
have non Mormon friends? How different these opinions would be if this was a
white man from Cottonwood Heights, Draper, St. George, etc! Quite the simplistic
view to question, with all the ongoing information today that black citizens are
clearly treated much differently then whites. Of course living in Utah, with a
population of nearly 82% being white and nearly 65% belonging to one single
church when most socialize, work and attend church together, unfortunately it is
easy to believe that the police treat all of its citizens in the same manner.
Get a clue! Thank you
Did you guys see the video of this shooting? It was sad. I don't get the
whole shoot him multiple times in the back if he's running away. It all
happened so quickly but I didn't even see a knife. Maybe I saw a different
video from what some of you might have watched and commented on but it was sad
Mental illness is a courtroom winner.Once upon a time a man went
berserk on the highway. His wife was afraid and locked herself in the car and
called the police.The police arrived and tazed him twice to subdue
him.The widow won $2 million in court.Susan Hunt got
$900KIn a strange case in Illinois, a man (Daniel Barraza) confessed
to murder of a woman and her 4-year-old in September of this year. It turns out
that in 2012 he was being taken to court for a hearing on other charges and
kicked out the window of the police car and ran away. The police shot him as he
was fleeing. He sued the cops for $6 million.The city (Elgin)
dropped the charges and gave him an "undisclosed amount" in settlement
back in 2012.Now, two people are dead and we are trying him again.
He's claiming insanity and off his meds.The cops just
Murray Mike has a good point...but if this man's medical history was in the
police record then would that be profiling and also against HIPAA. Perhaps we
need to stop doing the politically correct thing now...and just do the right
Question #1 How come the headline here does not read more something like; Family
of knife wielding man, (notice the absence of the word 'black')...Question #2 Why is there a perception that officers are not justified in
taking lethal action the second a threat is posed against them. The idea
police must use the least amount of force possible in any situation to eliminate
the threat, is no, never has been, and never will be, a standard those who
protect and serve must LIVE by. Their number one objective is to return to their
family safely every single day. They do not have to 'wait and see'
what an offender is going to do next. People will quit dying at the hands of
officers, when they learn to comply when an officer of the law is doing his job.
one vote - Do you think running from the cops, having a deadly weapon with him,
might just change the equation in the cops mind? If it had ONLY been a missing
tail light this entire event wouldn't have happened.
@one vote - Salt Lake City, UTOne vote says "Alot of police officers
for a broken tail light on a bicycle".You couldn't be more
correct. Ordinarily it would have only taken 1 officer to write 1 citation.
Now if the offender has a warrant for his/her arrest and decides to do something
that threatens the safety of the officer or someone else ............
The police have to make the right decision every time, conforming to laws and
rules. They need to go home alive each day. Then one day they come up against a
guy who appears to be running at them with a knife, or a snow shovel or running
toward who knows who with a samurai sword. The mentally ill sometimes don't
make good choices based on ingrained training. They sometimes make bad choices
based on their internal view of the world around them.A multiple
tragedy. One man dead. One man living with the consequences of his actions. And
many people with mental illnesses not getting the help they need.
Alot of police officers for a broken tail light on a bicycle. The non
seriousness of the offense should moderate the use of deadly force.
I feel sorry for everyone involved. Hindsight can identify lots of possible
You can't taser or baton a guy that is on the run from you.
How would the police know that the man had a bipolar disorder and
schizophrenia?Should they have put that on the list of polite
questions to ask someone who was fleeing from them and reportedly had a weapon?
It's too bad that an illness like schizophrenia wouldn't show up on
the outstanding warrants, or did it? If not, they should be linked somehow. As
for the two officers there, they should have used tasers if the distance allowed
them to do it for their safety. This guy starts running and taser him. If not,
and this guy was coming at them in close, then I can understand the use of
deadly force. If a guy has broken into my house and comes at me with a knife, I
won't use kind words to stop him, I'll shoot him.
The guy had bipolar disorder and schizophrenia; plus outstanding warrants. Does
anybody see red flags here ? Evidently, not his family. They should have been
the first to take action to deal with the problem; not just let it go, until
something bad happened. There could have been other bad outcomes besides what
It's amazing safe you are when you DON'T run away from Police.
"They need to stop killing people," she said. "Who gave police the
right to be the judge and jury to take people's loved ones?"Ok try this question on for size... "Why are they running? Why were they
committing a crime in the first place? Who gave the police the right to be the
judge and jury...?" We did. We asked police officers to put their lives on
the line to protect us against those who commit crimes and run from the police!
Why does it have to be a "Black or White" thing? Where did it become ok
for "johnny" to rob, pillage and plunder? Why are people forgetting that
"Johnny" had someone at gunpoint? When did that become ok? When did it
become "OK" for "Johnny" to run from police? Our mindset is a
bit screwey when we start thinking it as "Murder" by the police when it
was "Johnny" who was committing the crime.
I think the possession and disposition of a knife are key elements. Are there
times when the police obviously overstep their bounds and kill someone without
good cause? Absolutely. It takes more than a badge and a uniform to make all
"public servants" qualified, competent, and professional. In this case,
if there was a knife and it was a real threat, then apparently the shooting was
justified. In cases like that of Danielle Willard in West Valley City, where
she was killed for inconveniently occupying a vehicle, there clearly is NO
justification whatsoever. I also want to go home to my family every night, but
that doesn't justify me killing someone on the street because I lack the
judgment to respond properly.
I remember a few years ago when a father called the police because his son was
having a violent episode in his house. He was uncontrollably angry and shouting
at family members. The dad wanted help. When the police arrived to help the
anguished father to get his son under control, the son pulled out a knife and
retreated to a corner of the living room, shaking the knife at the officers as
he warned them not to come closer. So the police shot and killed that white
kid. The father wished he had never called the police. He felt that eventually
the son would have got a hold of himself and calmed down. That's great
20/20 hindsight, but no one can be sure how it might have played out. It sure
seems like there should have been a way to save the distraught kid's life.
Death shouldn't be the only option for police. If they choose to wound
instead of kill, they may lose their jobs - not following protocol and training.
But the rest of us would have called such police action heroic. The officers
were rightfully exonerated. But the system failed. I feel for this family. I
hope discussion (not kneeling) can bring a better future outcome for others.
Read the tail light law. This all started with a tail light being out and the
penalty was death. The fellows who stopped the stabbing at the convenience
store on Sunday night did not shoot the guy but stopped him without all of
police protection gadgets. You can't tell me that a fellow with a knife
can't be talked out of it when he sees guns drawn.
I recognize that the family is going through the stages of grief, one of which
is anger. But their anger is misplaced. It's not the
officer's fault that their loved one first ran, then turned back towards
the police to threaten them. He chose his path and thus the outcome. The
officer is not playing judge and jury, no sentence was passed, just a defensive
reaction that will often be fatal. Don't want to get shot,
obey the officer's commands, don't run and don't threaten them.
If the officer does wrong, fight it in the courts or the media afterwards.
Fighting it on the spot is always a losing proposition.
@Egyptian origins - Salt Lake City, UTYou aren't going to spark
outrage in Utah where the great majority of our citizens believe in obeying the
law. Ferguson Missouri maybe but not Salt Lake City.Treat police
officers with respect and they will respond accordingly. Treat the police
officers with disrespect and they will respond accordingly. Guaranteed!!
Let's see. Outstanding warrants, armed with a knife, running from police.
And the family is claiming he's an altar boy. Hmm. Sounds like litigation
lotto to me.The media frenzy now includes the race of the cop, how
many shots were fired, was he shot in the back, what's in the
officer's file.If you can't do the time...If
your loved on is mentally ill, someone better keep a close eye on him and keep
him away from weapons.What started out as a political stunt by the
left has gotten way out of hand. Republicans have been promoting law and order
for a couple of decades now. Democrats responded with felon rights campaigns.
Now we are seeing police who are shy and slow to respond. That's not
healthy for our society.
Running at a police officer with a weapon is bad because the police officer will
feel threatened and use whatever force is necessary to protect him/herself.
Running away from a police officer is even worse because the police officer then
must do whatever is necessary to protect the public, and they take that
responsibility very seriously.The same people who are criticizing
the police for excessive force would criticize them even more if the man running
away took hostages or hurt an innocent bystander.
Running from the cops who were attempting to handcuff you, having a deadly
weapon with you and turning to face the cops chasing you is a perfect recipe for
being shot. What is it that you folks don't understand about dealing with
law enforcement? Don't give them an excuse to kill you.
Don't run from cops; don't fight with cops; don't threaten cops
with a weapon. Keep your hands in view of the cops; follow their directions to
the letter, don't anger them. Live to enjoy another day. . .
"Family members of man shot dead by police call for officer's
firing"...well of course they do. No one is accountable anymore. Families of
those that choose to flee, fight and challenge Police and then pay the price
will always think it was unjust...especially if there is a dollar to be made.
It's sad when there is injustice and especially when it's covered up
with death. In our modern society, the story must go viral and spark an outrage
by a large majority of people before corruption is forced to make changes that
appear to promote justice. I admit I don't know how to get the attention of
the world nor how I can spark that outrage to initiate necessary change. Right
now that attention and change is working on behalf of our enemy and we are
losing the battle over our Constitutional Rights. My heart goes out to this
family, for I too am a victim of Utah's injustice concerning the loss of my
Anyone who says "end of discussion" when a bureaucratic decision is
handed down when clear patterns of discrimination and disproportion are evident
is acquiescing to injustice and in that way adding tacit support. This country
didn't become great because people sat back and let officials do what they
pleased. We should all take a knee for Patrick Harmon and work to make sure that
racial equality before the law is achieved.
Lamar Ross said "the officers with batons and Tasers shouldn't have
resorted to using a gun". Is Lamar Ross suggesting that the police needed
to use some kind of force to arrest this aggressive suspect?
Running from the Police is always a bad idea, and in today's anti-Police
environment, it is even worse. Salt lake city officials are responsible because
they have allowed lawlessness, and ordered stand downs. Blame your elected
official for making the streets an unsafe environment for Police to do their
jobs because they have diminished the respect that comes with the badge.
I think it should be stressed that when a criminal (assumed danger to society
because of his history) is fleeing police, he places innocent bystanders at
extreme risk. Someone could be taken hostage. Someone could be accosted.
Someone's home could be breached. The fleeing criminal has raging hormones
and adrenaline and could easily act irrationally and dangerously. The police
have to protect themselves first and the public second. The criminal gets (and
should get) consideration after those two are considered. I would never want
that order to be changed. I do wish that it were easier for police to disable a
fleeing criminal. I wish there were a remote switch to shut a criminal down.
Tasers can be helpful in some circumstances. Batons can be sometimes helpful.
But they carry risks too. The laws and training result in death. It's
sad. Even the family, in their complaint, express that their fleeing family
member has issues that pose a danger to others. He had to be stopped.
It's too bad he fled. It's too bad he caused all this. It's too
bad officers are made to feel endangered. The only decision that could be made
here was made.
It is good to support our law enforcement officers, but I wonder if this is a
time we shouldn't. If this went down the way officers are trained to handle
such situations, our officers are not being trained to respect human life
enough. Just because the law gives you the right to take someone's life,
does not mean it is right. The law needs to be changed and the officers'
training needs to be changed. Perhaps the racial turmoil this nation is
experiencing would disappear if we did not have such killings. Surely, we should
see that both our laws and our police training need to have change-ups.
When our laws shield unnecessary killings, our laws are not just.
re: ""Who gave police the right to be the judge and jury to take
people's loved ones?""It is always sad when someone
loses their life when it was unnecessary. It is also sad when people put
officers lives in danger by making really bad choices. The wives/husbands,
children, parents, extended families and friends of our police officers deserve
to have their loved ones come home safely EVERY SINGE NIGHT. Sadly, too many of
our officers are injured or killed by people who either choose to harm them, or
harm them negligently.So folks, the police get to err on the side of
protecting themselves. If you are brandishing a weapon, threatening an officer
or others, etc., the law and odds are not on your side. Also, if you have
commit multiple crimes, and later are caught by police, you will not get the
benefit of the doubt like an upstanding citizen would (Alex Wubbels
excepted!).So be law abiding, and your odds of getting hurt by the
police will be very low.
If you are in police custody, about the stupidest thing you can do is to flee.
The police are forced at that point to go after you.If in the
process of fleeing you happen to flinch or to turn, the policeman is forced to
make a split second decision, .. must I shoot to save my life? 9 times out of
10 the officer will error on the side of going home to his family that night.The benefit of the doubt at that point needs to go to the policeman, his
first obligation is to himself and his family, not a crook who decides to flee
the police.I don't believe that policemen want to shoot black
people. To kill another person takes a great emotional toll on most anyone.
The vast majority of police would prefer to never draw their gun in anger.
Its not about the police officer. Its about the rules. Either he followed them
or he did not. If not prosecute him, but if it is determined he followers the
rules then talk to the people who made the rules.
@DN Subscriber;"Anyone who flees from an arresting officer then turns
and faces them with a weapon, even a knife, is responsible for causing the
officer to take defensive action. "The video doesn't show
him having a knife. It could've been planted. The facts are that he was
shot in the back 3 times while running away. Look for the Feds to revisit this.
I would never want to be a police officer, but I'm thankful they are there.
The video doesn't look good at first glance. Even if he had a knife, it
looked like he was running away, not toward the officers. The officer may be
not guilty of murder, but I'm pretty sure SLC will be on the hook for a few
I grieve for any family who loses a family member to violence, including poor
judgement by police, HOWEVER (and I say however in the kindest way I can) there
are several things to consider before we go for the throat of the police. 1)
Police face violent people who pose a danger to themselves and the public more
than we realize. 2) when someone becomes confrontational with the police, they
are just as responsible for the outcome as the police are (maybe even more so!).
3) Like it or not, we live in a sick society, but it would be far worse if
there were no police!Can the police do a better job? Sure they can,
but I contend that they are grossly under manned and under paid, so we get what
we asked for. We are more concerned about the "squeaky wheel" loud
voices demanding more free hand outs than we are about the issue of providing
the vital services we absolutely need, to maintain civil order.
People can call for anything they want, but we are a nation of laws, which have
to be obeyed.The laws of Utah require the District Attorney
investigate officer involved shootings to determine if they were lawful or not.
The DA investigated and found that the officer acted in accordance with the law.
End of discussion. Especially since the DA has a reputation for being tough
on cops.I am sorry for your loss, but I am thankful the officer went
home safely that night. 67 officers have been killed in the line of duty in the
first 6 months of 2017, so it is not irrational or unlawful to defend against a
suspect with a weapon in their hands.Anyone who flees from an
arresting officer then turns and faces them with a weapon, even a knife, is
responsible for causing the officer to take defensive action. In other words,
your family member made a decision which cost him his life and no one else is
responsible for him doing that.