Chief fires officer who arrested U. nurse; lieutenant demoted

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  • Mikekom Canada, 00
    Oct. 31, 2017 9:33 p.m.

    "is outweighed by the glaring absence of sound professional judgment and extremely discourteous, disrespectful, inappropriate, unreasonable and unwarranted behavior you displayed in this incident."

    Like I've said before..... Do you think this policy is in effect when dealing with poor white people or minorities? Or does it take bystander and body video to be released before anything resembling accountability will be enforced?

  • Cactus Pete Centerville, UT
    Oct. 16, 2017 6:44 a.m.

    @Furry1993 - Ogden, UT

    Furry1993 asks "BUT who do you call when it is the police officer breaking the law"

    Answer: I'd call the people I trust Furry, the police.

  • Cactus Pete Centerville, UT
    Oct. 16, 2017 6:36 a.m.

    Utah's “implied consent” to draw blood law was struck down by the Utah Supreme Court over 10 years ago in State v. Rodriguez.

    No warrant then no blood draw. Former police officer Payne should have known better.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 14, 2017 7:50 a.m.

    @Flying Finn - Oct. 13, 2017 5:58 a.m.
    Re: lrbinfrisco - Frisco, TX

    People that respect and obey our laws consider the police to be our friends. Who do you call when your life or the life of a loved one is being threatened? Do you call the police or a criminal to save your bacon?
    ------------------
    BUT who do you call when it is the police officer breaking the law-- like the way Payne assaulted Nurse Wubbels? How do you protect yourself against "bad action" by the police?

  • Flying Finn Murray, UT
    Oct. 13, 2017 5:58 a.m.

    Re: lrbinfrisco - Frisco, TX
    Irbinfrisco asks 'Who do you call when you are being illegally attacked by a police officer?"

    People that respect and obey our laws consider the police to be our friends. Who do you call when your life or the life of a loved one is being threatened? Do you call the police or a criminal to save your bacon?

  • lrbinfrisco Frisco, TX
    Oct. 12, 2017 1:50 a.m.

    Who do you call when you are being illegally attacked by a police officer? If more police arrive they are most likely to act like the U of U police and not lift a finger to the victim who had been repeatedly and illegally threatened for over a half hour I believe.

    It's great that Payne was fired. Tracy should be fired as well. And the officer in charge of the internal affairs investigation that did not push for immediate suspension with pay of Payne and Tracy should be fired or the higher up who quashed his request should be fired.

    Brown should be put on probation as well as many other ranking police. They need to clean up the department or seek employment elsewhere.

    This is one incident. However it is indicative of a much larger problem in police agencies across America. Who polices the police? Whoever it is, has some major improvement that they need to do. Specifically, police need to be trained to remove a rogue officer from a scene before it escalates. This could have easily been done in this case. Law Enforcement can no longer maintain a near de facto immunity to the law. And they should not enjoy special privileges over ordinary citizens.

  • ps2os2 Chicago, IL
    Oct. 11, 2017 4:47 p.m.

    I was happy to see that there was a fairly quick finality to the extremely unfortunate incident. Thankfully there was no permanent damage to the nurse. The Policeman was dealt with fairly and hopefully, the police department will instruct their officers on the law. It is unfortunate that this situation had to even occur in the first place.

  • Gruffi Gummi Logan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:45 p.m.

    So, to add a conclusion to my prior post: I hope Payne's attorney will employ the line of defense based on Gardiner (and its rotten progeny). It will allow him to successfully defend his client against any criminal charges, because according to the logic fabricated by the activist Utah Supreme Court detective Payne DID have a probable cause to arrest Mrs. Wubbels!

    With all respect to Mrs. Wubbels, this is a much larger problem - our courts have declared that "the King can do no wrong" and placed police officers above the law. The Utah Legislature needs to step in.

  • Gruffi Gummi Logan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:23 p.m.

    Flying Finn: "You are required to comply with the LAWFUL commands of a police officer. Learn the law"

    You will be surprised, but this is NOT true in Utah! Yes, the statute says so. But the statute is dead - the Utah Supreme Court, in State v. Gardiner, has re-written it. You are expected to comply with EVERY, even clearly unlawful command given by a police officer, as long as the officer is acting "within the scope of his authority". And to determine that he is "acting within the scope of his authority" it is enough to determine that there are "indicia of authority". Don't ask me about this convoluted logic. Ask the activist justices.

    Moderator, the following example may seem "insensitive", but please note that this is a genuine example used in the Indiana legislature on the occasion of discussing the right to resist. According to activist judges and their "modern jurisprudence" (the Indiana Supreme Court had produced an outrage similar to Gardiner), an officer can sexually assault your wife in front of you (the example of deputy Womack is relevant here), and you have NO RIGHT TO RESIST, and can be arrested even for verbally protesting (Am. Fork City v. Pena Flores).

  • shadowfx Chandler, AZ
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:06 p.m.

    WOW - interesting comments. I was able to read the termination letter on my cell phone. It was very detailed.
    Technicality, the Logan Police Department really didn't care about the blood draw, which was omitted from the original discussion and police report. (Filing a false police report and the Lt approved it).
    The nurse acted within the Hospital department rules and regulations. She provided the officer the written documentation reaffirming the agreement. The officer refused to talk to the administration and lost his temper. (Conduct unbecoming) Citing criminal investigation, though the patient was not considered under investigation by the Logan Police.
    Arresting the nurse and placing her in the car (technically false arrest and false imprisonment).
    To make matters worse, the COVER UP! That was not even mentioned. Why did the police chief allow this? He should also loose his job for covering up the problems.
    No matter what, the officer will NEVER be trusted by the people of SLC, with 27 years he can retire. The Lt. demotion, has a chance to redeem himself over the next several years.
    Fighting the recommendation - will only show SLC you ARE GUILTY!

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 10:50 a.m.

    What about the University of Utah police? In the video it looked like they were uninvolved and looking at their phones at who knows what. What was their responsibility? It seems to me they should have been a liaison between the hospital and police. Where was their supervisor? Or someone from hospital police department doing something other than leaning against a wall.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 10:44 a.m.

    Anyone with any awareness of the law could have determined in real time that the officer was wrong. There is agreement on the left and on the right. While I feel bad for the outcome to the officer, he should have know better. Now let's deal with the officer who shot the bicyclist.

  • D Van Duker Syracuse, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 10:15 a.m.

    This incident underscores a common depiction some police being “bullies with badges.” I doubt this was isolated; merely previously undetected. Without the body-cam policy, the story would NEVER have come to the public’s attention.

    The story is being portrayed as an instance of poor judgment; that’s sugar-coating. This was abuse of police power—“teaching” this nurse a “lesson” for non-acquiesces. It was also lousy police work; such illegally obtained evidence would have never been admissible.

    The saddest part: there are so MANY excellent police officers serving the people of Utah; all of them are now splashed with the mud from the shocking disregard of police policy, criminal procedure, and common decency.

    As there was no valid basis for arrest, the officer is guilty of statutory assault, battery, & false imprisonment. Sovereign immunity means the police are criminally unaccountable. They & the city are not exempt from civil liability. The abject waste in city budget for the investigation, lawyers, & eventual settlement, more than justifies firing everyone involved—including the other law enforcement officers that stood by and did nothing.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 9:57 a.m.

    From Wubbels original comments, I don't think she sought punitive action (suing the city or firing people). She wanted changes so that the situation wouldn't happen again. It does no good to fire an officer, if the replacement officer also misunderstands the law.

  • Truenorthlander Canada, 00
    Oct. 11, 2017 9:22 a.m.

    Management has displayed sound judgement here, this may cause a much needed shakeup within police ran and file. It is refreshing to see we the people win for a change. The police are becoming more militarized across the USA it is sad to watch, "serve and protect" instead of trying to become your own personal TV hero.

  • Flying Finn Murray, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 9:16 a.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil - Durham, NC
    You are required to comply with the LAWFUL commands of a police officer. Learn the law UtahBlueDevil.

    The fact that this officer knew that he'd screwed up is evidenced by the fact that she was released from the police car and not taken to jail. He got just exactly what he deserved.

  • Gregory Hill Richboro, PA
    Oct. 11, 2017 9:12 a.m.

    To my mind, the information about the Logan Police Department's lack of concern about the blood draw, and Payne's decision not to share that information with his boss from the outset, makes this case much worse for Detective Payne. Coupled with the threat to take second job retaliatory action against the hospital, it would seem that Payne was not temperamentally well suited to remain a police officer.

    But we should be cautious about judging him too harshly. We all have bad days and good days. Policing is hard work: dangerous, poorly compensated, often thankless and emotionally draining. Let's remember that he may also have saved more than a few lives during his long career, and may be a better person than this one bad day would suggest.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:58 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil - "The nurse was refusing to comply with a police order. The man was refusing to comply with a police order. Learn the law."

    I hope you agree that police cannot order you to murder someone. They cannot order you to break the law. Taking this blood sample was against the law (despite the officer believing the opposite). The officer could not order the nurse to break the law. The nurse complied with the law.

  • neece Hyde Park, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:44 a.m.

    @ imsmarterthanyou

    Geeze should we draw and quarter him also? I think your plan just a bit harsh. Yes he behaved in an unprofessional manner, but if Tracy was demoted two ranks why not Payne? I think being demoted down to police Officer I should be plenty. Or a month's suspension. Does one mistake (although a biggie) should negate the 27 years of good service? I think being fired is a bit harsh, and Brown is just acting on Public Out cry from most people I might add have no clue what it is like to be a police officer. Calm down people!

  • search diligently Lehi, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:36 a.m.

    I disagree with this statement: " Salt Lake Police Chief Mike Brown fired detective Jeff Payne on Tuesday and demoted Lt. James Tracy for their involvement in the controversial arrest of University Hospital nurse Alex Wubbels."

    There was nothing controversial about the arrest. Where is the controversy? It was flat out wrong and horrible by any standards.

    My father, the most law abiding man you may ever meet, was wrongly arrested and treated shamefully. It is no small thing when you are treated they way he was, the way nurse Wubbles was.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:31 a.m.

    @utahcoyote - Oct. 10, 2017 5:22 p.m.
    . . .

    all that said, it seems something like 30 days without pay and mandatory training should have been enough punishment for a man who had apparently served the police department well for many years.

    ---------------------------

    I disagree. The nurse was assaulted by Payne when she was obeying the law and acting in compliance with an agreement previously reached with the police department. Payne, apparently in a juvenile snit at being thwaeted, threw a temper tantrum and attempted to harass/bully the nurse. He ended up assaulting her. That does not, in any way, serve the police department well. That puts the police department in disrepute, and makes it such that the public cannot trust the police department to act fairly and lawfully, as long as the offender(s) are in its employ. The proper punishment for both Payne and Tracy, and the way to protect the public's safety, is for them to lose their jobs, be barred from any law enforcement or protective position in the future (including something like a security guard), and be prosecuted. They proved themselves not worthy of the public trust, and should be sanctioned accordingly.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:10 a.m.

    Two questions; (1) In the dismissal letter, there is much verbiage about unprofessional conduct, etc. , but, I read nothing about any law being broken by Payne or Tracy. Is this because the investigation has not got to that point ? (2) Why was Tracy's punishment so much less than Payne ? ( no pun intended) True, he was not shown exhibiting overbearing behavior, but, he was in a position to make a more rational decision, and should have as a supervisor exercised better judgment and knowledge of the law as well as any
    policy agreement with the University hospital. His apparently cold-blooded decision to tell Payne to make the arrest is scary. Again, is this because the investigation is not yet finished ? Or is it finished ? I confess: more than two questions.

  • Bountiful Guy Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:02 a.m.

    One thing I find most troubling is that Officer Payne truly believes to this day that he had probable cause to arrest the nurse. For that alone, he should be fired, as should the Lieutenant who gave the arrest order. Officer Payne was told to make the arrest and he was following orders. So it doesn't completely add up. I'm going to guess that it was the violence of Officer Payne which he employed to take down this 'dangerous' (tongue in cheek) nurse. The violence and brutality should make us shudder. The shoving; the twisting of her arm; the forcing into an uncomfortable position while shoved to force walking was brutal. And this is a nurse who was calm, respectful, dutiful, knowledgeable, respectful, and honorable. We should all be glad that she didn't have a prior arrest record. Her backing away from Officer Payne may have ended even worse for her.

    I appreciate that this matter was given due course and that the officers had the chance to respond to the findings of the report. But the Chief delayed his actions for a month and that is also troubling. I hope Nurse Wubbells is recovering well from her trauma. Thanks for doing a great job.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:01 a.m.

    "To compare Nurse Wubbels to an armed, convicted felon (aggravated assault) who flees from police at night on the street and then attempts to assault them with a knife is beyond laughable"

    Someones past crime does not mean an officer can used deadly force indiscriminately. Where in the word did you get that. And unless this dude was a freak of nature - there is no way he was threatening the officer while running away. Watch the video amigo. The officer made a bad decision when to use "deadly" force, where his partner did not.

    The nurse was refusing to comply with a police order. The man was refusing to comply with a police order. Learn the law.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:59 a.m.

    Somebody in Cache County wanted that blood sample, and I'm betting that they knew that they had no legal grounds to get it. Tracy's disclaimers aside, it's hard to believe that he thought he had legal grounds. It's also stretching credibility to think that Payne, a trained phlebotomist, didn't know that he was bluffing when he claimed that he had the right to it.

    How many times has this sort of thing happened before--not just regarding blood samples, but other things, involving searches, detaining, whatever--where the victims didn't realize that the cops had no right to do what they were doing?

    Payne told the nurse that he was going to return with that blood or a body in tow--i.e. hers. Those were Tracy's orders--and Tracy never denied that. Why on earth does he get off with only 30 days without pay?

    Someone with integrity would have told Cache County that they weren't going to get involved in what was clearly an illegal request. But the good folk up in Logan never get mentioned in these articles. Why not?

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:52 a.m.

    It's too bad it took an obvious negative public reaction to get the needed consequences handed out. If the chief of police, city and police union had done the right thing immediately, without Alex Wubbels needing to release the video, the SLPD could have saved itself a black-eye and such a loss of public trust.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:49 a.m.

    To Egyptian orgins:

    Nice try. We need the police. We just need them to be reasonable. Drivers on I-15 already behave very badly, even with the threat of a ticket. I can't imagine how many ways people would use their so-called "constitutional rights" if we did not have a reasonable check and balance on the poor choices that people make when using their God-given freedoms.

    btw - The Constitution said little about local police forces because it was a national document that left unstated responsibilities to the states. Constables and local authorities were in place long before the constitution, and there was no intention to change that. The only intent was to outline reasonable principles that would check the power of the national government, and the power that was retained (not delegated!) to the states.

  • Laura Bilington Maple Valley, WA
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:30 a.m.

    @utahcoyote writes,

    "something like 30 days without pay and mandatory training should have been enough punishment for a man who had apparently served the police department well for many years. "

    So, because Mr. Tracy worked there for years without doing stuff so bad that it made international news...we should just give him a pass? He deserves another chance? Really?

    There was another incident last week where somebody got to the age of 64 without ever doing anything so serious that it got the attention of the press. Maybe we should have just disciplined him with 30 days of home detention and some retraining? Because, hey, it was his first offense.

    I'm talking about Stephen Paddock.

  • PacificCreek Puyallup, WA
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:29 a.m.

    The sad thing about all of this is that the officer would not have been disciplined had the Nurse not released the body cam footage. Sadly there have been many cases where officers crossed the line of professionalism and acted in a similar manner. It is very hard to take legal action against and officer and even in this case where it was clear that the officer went way out of bounds the only discipline enacted was to remove him from the blood draw team.

    Being a cop is tough and they get treated poorly a lot of the time by the people they interact with. I can understand why they are on edge but too many police officers know that they can get away with what would be crimes for other people.

  • imsmarterthanyou Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:28 a.m.

    Ok firing payne is as it should be, but it isn't enough. He should be prosecuted and then jailed & forced to pay a huge fine, probably be on parole or probation for several years as well. But the other cop is still a cop and that is indeed troubling. And what about the cops from the university who did nothing to protect Miss Wubbles? They should be fired also.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:24 a.m.

    As a former police officer, I've seen officers fired for far less than this. There is no question that Payne needed to go. Brown should have told him to retire or get fired and given him the choice. Then the PD would go to POST and outline the issues to the POST Council and get his police officer certification pulled also. Payne will be lucky not to have criminal charges filed against him.

    As far as the LT, demotion was definitely deserved in his case. Skordas and Brass need to cut bait and run.

  • mrjj69 bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:00 a.m.

    I believe this is the least the police could do. The actions of both these men in the false arrest of the nurse, has now subjected the police department, and ultimately the taxpayers to what well could be a very expensive lawsuit. Other officers in false arrest cases have lost lawsuits in the millions of dollars. This is totally unacceptable.. It is sad they are able to appeal, which will also cost the city more money. Hopefully the remaining officers have learned this type of abuse is not acceptable.

  • OlderGreg USA, CA
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:53 a.m.

    Theatrics.
    One officer has to do the safety retirement thing with only (?) 27 years credit. Maybe even more, depending on how the union contract addresses the investigation, hearing, and appeals time. I suspect 80+% of the local citizenry would be tickled to have the lifelong income he has coming.

    The second officer demoted because he trusted an underling's experience without question. A minor setback, considering the aging LEOs (ie heading out the door for retirement) and the growing population. There will be plenty of promotion opportunities available.

  • Utahute72 Tooele, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 10:03 p.m.

    If I were a police officer in Salt Lake City I would immediately start looking for a job in another jusirdiction.

  • RWOFVA RIVERTON, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 9:46 p.m.

    Seems all involved continue to find new ways to make a bad situation worse while also drawing it out as long as possible.

  • Egyptian origins Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 9:36 p.m.

    This is just the 1st step. The Constitution implies that there is to be no police force at all. The defense of a State was put in the hands of its citizens, through the organization of a Militia. There should never have been a police officer to gather blood from the hospital to have analyzed, just as there should never be police patrolling our streets as a standing army, pulling people over for traffic violations, making unwarranted searches and seizures; & making arrests where the charges are trumped up as the accused rots in jail for months, so that the accused will cut a deal by pleading guilty to lesser charges, or having the charges dropped because the accused has served enough time in jail w/o ever going to trial, avoiding a jury by our peers, & there is to be no policing force that could be mobilized by a corrupt government using Martial Law, where all Constitutional Rights are suspended indefinitely. The Constitution in this case required a Court to issue a warrant to the hospital to deliver the analyzed blood for a trial as evidence, not for a police investigation, biased against the accused, which risks evidence tampering and planting. It's about rights over security.

  • 13Bpatriot SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 9:31 p.m.

    A cop using his badge as an excuse to abuse citizens, place them under arrest under fraudulent circumstances and to violate their 4th amendment rights under the US Constitution SHOULD result in a termination.
    Payne is a bully with a badge and if that kind of cop is tolerated at SLC PD then I have no confidence in the police department.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 9:17 p.m.

    Did you catch the part where "chief" Brown wrote a SEVENTEEN page letter firing Payne? The chief should be fired for incompetence and wasting taxpayer paid for paper.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 9:04 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil:

    To compare Nurse Wubbels to an armed, convicted felon (aggravated assault) who flees from police at night on the street and then attempts to assault them with a knife is beyond laughable. This remains true whether deadly force or less-than-deadly force was the proper way to subdue the armed felon.

    Nurse Wubbels committed no crime, never threatened anyone, never fled, was not armed, clearly and calmly articulated her position, and the incident occurred in the (besides the officers' excesses) otherwise calm, well-lit environment of the hospital. Wubbels was under legal obligation not to violate nor allow a violation of the rights of her patient.

    There is good reason why both liberals and conservatives, supporters of police and those who are quick to find fault most all tend to agree that the officers were so far out of line with Nurse Wubbels. There simply isn't any doubt.

    In the armed felon case, there remains doubt and many of us remain willing to give officers the benefit of the doubt.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 10, 2017 8:05 p.m.

    It's tough. The public needs to have confidence in the police. And most police are good decent people trying to do the right thing - sometimes making mistakes - but that is part of being human. But then you contrast this.... a nurse is arrested, then released, and the police officer is fired for poor judgement and that people can no longer trust his judgement. Contrast that with a 55 year old man resists arrest, tries to flee, and is shot and killed. The officer is still on the force.

    Two different situations, yet. But the twist is in the latter case a second officer thought a taser was the appropriate response, not deadly force.

    We need to make sure that when things go wrong - and they will go wrong as police are human - that we treat each situation fairly.

  • The Educator South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 7:39 p.m.

    Both of those officers should be fired and indicted for harassment and assault. We need to protect the public from these animals. Payne has no Business being in society. He proved how Dangerous he is. It'd sad that it took 3 months for The SLPD to figure this out. Keep
    These animals off The street!

    Get Educated

  • boatersteve Fruit Heights, Utah
    Oct. 10, 2017 7:36 p.m.

    I am amazed that anyone would think the punishment was too severe, this officer should be criminally prosecuted and the law clearly supports such a result. Reading the letter, reviewing the testimony, viewing the body cam footage clearly supports the idea absent this video the boys in blue would have protected a fellow officer and everything would have been washed away. Body cameras should be on all the time the officer is on duty. For someone to call this a "phony" story borders on the disgusting. These officers hold the power to deprive people of liberty and the right to kill, as such they should be held to very highest of standards and accountability. This officer showed a complete disregard of the rights of the nurse and the unconscious truck driver. He should be prosecuted criminally for the criminal behavior he exhibited. Let us only hope this represents a vary rare exception.

  • water rocket Magna, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:56 p.m.

    I read the entire article, including the letter of termination, and I was left with the feeling that this whole affair would have been handled far differently if the body cam had not been turned on. Without that evidence, this whole affair would have been a "he said, she said" affair and swept under the rug. I also felt that in future events, officers will "conveniently" forget to turn on their body cams.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:56 p.m.

    @water rocket - Magna, UT
    It is referred to as professional courtesy, and yes, you are correct. When an officer's life is on the line he as to depend on the officer watching his back.

    Surly you must know that officers have the discretion to chew you out or to give you a ticket .... but never both. You did know that didn't you?

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:24 p.m.

    @Meckofahess - Oct. 10, 2017 5:25 p.m.
    This whole mess could have been handled better. This is a stain on the SLC Mayor’s office and Police leadership.
    -----------------------

    No. It's a stain on the two men who assaulted the nurse.

    I hope something is done so that Payne can never again have a position in law enforcement and Tracy cannot be promoted further than the rank to which he was demoted. The public needs protection from these men.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:20 p.m.

    @ christoph: Did you watch the video in its entirety? Nothing made up here, dude. The officer violated the law and mistreated a member of the public while doing so.

    @ utahcoyote: Firing is exactly what was/is called for - he was shown a copy of the policy which follows current law and was an agreement reached with the University and the police department.

  • water rocket Magna, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:15 p.m.

    Many many years ago I had to take a defensive driving course. The policeman conducting the course made the statement that no police officer would ever make a traffic stop of an officer who was seen violating any traffic laws. The reason he gave was that you never want to offend another officer who you might one day need to protect your back. Essentially what he was saying is that their code is to protect each other, REGARDLESS of their conduct. To me, this is much the same as how gangs behave, isn't it?

  • Chessermesser West Valley City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 6:02 p.m.

    Why did it take sooooooo long to make this decision? Any decision? Mayor, Chief? I know that the policy is for the chief to not be involved in this investigation until after it is completed? Does it really take this long? Really?

    A business has a sense of urgency when resolving damaging issues? The public deserves to know when the investigation began. I’m guessing nothing was going own until Nurse Wubbel’s attorney released the video of her arrest. If true, then the SLCPD has a much bigger issue than this incident.

    Simply give us a timeline of the internal review and then fix your process if needed.

  • Elsleuith Eagle Mountain, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:56 p.m.

    In some of the old movies police officers talk people out of jumping off of a skyscraper. It is a tense situation. The officer speaks in a calm, rational voice. The tone is kind and tranquil. They listen to the distraught person who no longer wants to live. That voice was needed here. When anger takes over reason leaves. Sad for everyone concerned.

  • LoveLondon Murray, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:48 p.m.

    It's nice to see that police officers are held accountable for their actions. Hopefully, all police officers will realize that just because there is a badge on your chest you can't do whatever you want.

  • pearmaster Lehi, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:33 p.m.

    Why is so much redacted in these letters?

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:32 p.m.

    Both should have been fired and the Chief given a final written warning to straighten out his department's behavior. I certainly hope Biskupski gets her due next election. It will be sorely deserved.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:25 p.m.

    This whole mess could have been handled better. This is a stain on the SLC Mayor’s office and Police leadership.

  • utahcoyote Saint George, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:22 p.m.

    can't say this is unexpected, but it seems slpd may have went from not doing enough to over reacting; especially in regard to payne. my biggest qualm with payne was that even after logan police department told him to not worry about, and they would handle it another way, he still persisted. anything he did from that point on became gratuitous, especially his forceful arrest of wubbels.

    all that said, it seems something like 30 days without pay and mandatory training should have been enough punishment for a man who had apparently served the police department well for many years. the demotion of the lieutenant does seem appropriate, as he clearly delivered no leadership in an escalating situation, and may well have well been the final push that payne needed to arrest the charge nurse.

    frankly, what disturbed me most on this whole situation was that the university of utah police department failed to protect the nurse at all, in what was clearly not criminal behavior. they did not even attempt to intervene on her behalf. her communicaion with her superiors was heard by all involved, including them.

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:22 p.m.

    All done by actors on a stage and planned in advance, and probably big money paid to them. And why? People love talking against cops and want lawlessness. Don't believe every story you hear. And to think people made death threats to this cop when the story is phony.

  • 1conservative Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:20 p.m.

    Hopefully the city will fire Chief Brown too for trying to cover it up, which will get a little tricky since Biskupski worked WITH the Chief on trying to sweep it under the rug.

  • Fitness Freak Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:13 p.m.

    Chief Brown likewise SHOULD be fired for trying to cover it up, as SHOULD the various officers who stood around and watched someone's constitutional rights being violated.

    Basic incompetence - on a GRAND scale!

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:12 p.m.

    Former police detective Jeff Payne will find it difficult to get employment with any other police agency. He might be able to land a job as a security guard on a job site if he is lucky. He gets no sympathy from me, and I suspect the Salt Lake Police Union will keep a low profile on his firing.

  • MC Squared Plano, TX
    Oct. 10, 2017 5:08 p.m.

    The dominating factor in all of was arrogance....... Let's all learn something from this.