No names.."So you support a baker who sees a major moral issue with
homosexual conduct objecting to that via peaceful non-action (refusing to
participate in providing services to a homosexual event), without being required
to also object to divorce, eating shellfish, or any other moral wrong you can
find in the Bible? "No protest has to include all the ills of
the world.However....I object to the bakers situation because their
protest is illegal.The football players protest is not illegal.
As a thirty year veteran of the military and law enforcement, the right of these
players to take a knee in protest is what I served to protect. If you think
it's about disrespecting the Military and the Veterans you are sadly
mistken.If you think forced patriotism is the answer perhaps it's
time for you to move to a country that it's practiced, North Korea comes to
When someone dresses up like a Native American for Halloween, is their point to
offend? Maybe, maybe not. But it is the Native Americans who get to say what
they find offensive. When a cartoonist draws a cartoon of Obama and it mentions
watermelon toothpaste, it is Obama and African Americans who get to decide if
they are offended or not, regardless of the cartoonist's intent. When a
group of grown, American, men refuse to stand for the National Anthem, it is the
US veterans and families of fallen soldiers and patriotic American citizens who
get to decide if it they find it offensive or not. Just because you are black
does not give you a free pass to offend other groups.The sad thing
is that there isn't unforced, unpaid patriotism. Apparently there never was
in the NFL, despite the amazing wealth and fame and opportunities NFL players
experience as a result of being citizens of this country. Hating and criticizing
the US is a popular way to gain the adulation of the masses, sadly.
I don't watch the NFL. I don't watch the Dixie Chicks. I don't
watch CNN or MSNBC. I don't watch Bill and Hill. I am exercising my right
to fill my life and my mind with that which feels right to me.This is
America! God bless America! Land that I love! STAND beside her!
To me it seems that the author, Mr. Hatch, approves of a kneeling protest of our
nation. Free Speech is not necessarily allowed in one's place of
employment but in the Public space. And even then, it cannot be speech that
endangers people. For example, it is illegal to yell "Fire" in a movie
theater because of the danger to those in the theater. I suspect the
players in London stood for the English National Anthem. If so, why not show
that level of respect for Americans standing for our flag and anthem in the USA?
And why is this respect/patriotism not normal in the USA as it used to
be? This value is no longer taught in many public schools and not at the home.
Time to teach our History and why we ARE a blessed nation and so valuable to the
citizens and the world. If one does not like American, they are free to
express that on the streets in a peaceful manner. If they don't like
America, they are free to move to some other country. Try Iran or North Korea
and enjoy it.
den denyou have my permission to change the channel
'Forced patriotism' is a shibboleth. Patriotism is like civility and
other traits. Freedom of expression means people can be uncivil at times. Not
recommended, however, as a form of persuasion. Being uncivil is more of an
unfavorable reflection on that person, even though the Constitution allows it.
Standing for the National anthem or as the flag is raised or passes by as a sign
of respect for a country that has done more for humanity than any other
country, is intended to help teach patriotism. You can choose to not stand; you
will not be arrested ( no NFL person was arrested ), but, again, that is not a
good reflection on that person imho. This NFL thing has never been about freedom
of expression; the NFL clamping down on other players attempting to make a
statement in more innocuous ways puts that claim to rest.
I suppose I might be the odd one here, but I couldn't care less if players
stand or kneel during the national anthem. It's their right. Now what does bother me is the head of the executive branch using something as
silly as football players kneeling to divide the country and pit neighbors
against neighbors. It's the UNITED States of America, people. And
don't you forget it!
"Peaceful protests are the lifeblood of the Republic."Wow--the
things they teach in California.No, Justin, the lifeblood of the Republic
is not "peaceful protests". The lifeblood of the republic is the
Constitution and Rule of Law.I get that NFL Players have the right to
kneel for the anthem (and for that matter spit on the flag if they wish).We, the fans, have the right to not watch them. The Owners have the right to
bench them.Comparing this to 1930s Germany is grossly inaccurate and just
I am a combat vet; and I do not stand with the players. This is yet another in a
long line of articles; I wish some commenters would read the other articles with
associated comments. I see only a few new threads.
@worf: "Forced patriotism? What would captain Moroni do?"What would Harry Potter do?
worf - McAllen, TXOct. 11, 2017 10:29 a.m.Forced
patriotism?What would captain Moroni do?===== As I recall, Moroni was called to fight a war he didn't start.The Kingmen did.Capt. Moroni threatened to attack those very
leaders who started that war, and did not send him supplies or serve
themselves, but they kept everything for themselves.Sort of
like when I went to war, and was handed equipment left over from Vietnam
and the 1960's. and BTW -- it's not much different
now with Trump and his WallStreet Kingmen pals are about to do with North
"I now hate a sport that I use to love--MAGA"Hilarious to
watch. /And strawman after strawman marching down the street?
"do you see the irony of the wealthiest most pampered bunch of people on the
planet protesting inequality?"This isnt about fox news
'personalities'. Keep up.
Being a liberal looks like it is easy right now. You just blame everything on
Trump.Fun fact, Trump expressed his opinion. The fans have spoken
with their pocket books and time. Now the NFL owners have decided that if they
want to keep their fans they have to change the outward image on the football
field.This is no different than a company mandating a uniform or
acceptable grooming and language standards.Would you go to
Chuck-E-Cheese if the workers there were foulmouthed? They have freedom of
speech, why shouldn't they be allowed to crude?
@Backbonedr - Lehi, UT Oct. 11, 2017 1:25 a.m. Yes all republicans should be up
for sainthood, yes that's the ticket, (snicker).
Here's my opinion...I'm done with the NFL. Next up...the
NBA. I'd like to see these multi millionaires try to do the same.WE, as Americans, need to have our voice heard. We can do this by not
watching, not going to and not supporting the teams that allow these high
priced, overindulged athletes from forcing the American viewer to their
ideologies.If I want to watch it, I will turn on the news or read it
from outlets like KSL.com.Do not force it down my throat by way of
patriot - Cedar Hills, UT Oct. 10, 2017 7:08 p.m. wrote: these players
aren't protesting injustice...they are much too fickle and shallow. These
players have a combination of America hate and Trump hate and they couldn't
care less about out vets. Please do tell how you know what these
players are or aren't protesting, how you know they hate Trump/America and
what they do or don't care about. Please, if you can, don't
regurgitate any fake Fox News or alt.right material in doing so.
I'm a veteran....I see a draft-dodger in the Whitehouse -- trying everything he can to quill free Press, free speech, free religion, and
free expression, as exponentially showing more DISRESPECT for everything
that flag and anthem represent, ...than a few football players
Backbonedr - Lehi, UT Oct. 10, 2017 5:54 p.m. wrote: Mr. Hatch, do you see the
irony of the wealthiest most pampered bunch of people on the planet protesting
inequality? Well, Backbonedr, I would ask you if you see the irony, in someone
labling people as the wealthiest and most pampered and citicizing them for
protesting inequality when what they are protesting is and always has been about
the disproportionate brutality of law enforcement against African Americans?
The fact that most people who not agree with the protests do not understand
exactly what the protest is about is justification of the legitimacy of the
@oldbasketball; "Standing for the national anthem is part of the NFL
rules. It states that if they don't they are subject to dismissal. Unless
the NFL changes their rules, they are not allowed to take a knee" That is patently false. There is no such rule, or policy. Please stop
knowingly spreading falsehoods, or as Republicans now call them,
Forced patriotism?What would captain Moroni do?
@Millenial Snow: "How should black people be allowed to protest?"How do you think conservative Christians should be allowed to show their
moral disagreement with calling homosexual unions "marriage"? Do you
believe bakers should be allowed to peacefully show disagreement in ways that
are different than you would choose to show disagreement?@pragmatistferlife: "If I see a systemic social issue I feel is wrong, is
there any logic that says I have to protest all the wrongs in society to be
logical? Of course not. It's only blind partisanship that requires, or even
thinks of that. "So you support a baker who sees a major moral
issue with homosexual conduct objecting to that via peaceful non-action
(refusing to participate in providing services to a homosexual event), without
being required to also object to divorce, eating shellfish, or any other moral
wrong you can find in the Bible? It is great to see liberals
defending free speech expressed through peaceful refusal to participate in
public ceremonies. Someone taking offense to non participation is not actually
someone being harmed. The law must never punish peaceful, non-participation.
Leave it to the free market.
We don't want "forced patriotism" you are right.We
want Patriots and people willing to stand up and respect our Country!If the NFL is full of people who can't do that then I hope they go out of
business.I for sure am not supporting them.By the way, I
am 100% for the fair treatment of people and I feel like black people have been
mistreated and their cause is just. They need to stand up and go to work on the
problems instead of becoming part of the problem themselves. Greed is hurting
the black communities. Stand up and give back and lead. You can't be a
leader unless you stand up and be counted. Caving into the peer pressure to
kneel is not impressing anyone and certainly not helping to change a thing.
@NoNamesAccepted"So why do you take such a lesser tact and position
when it comes to bakers, florists, photographers, and reception center owners
regarding homosexual "marriage" events?"Well first off,
to be clear while I support the NFL protests I don't think they have any
inherent right to them (their union may give them some protection any average
employee at other places wouldn't though).Secondly, I consider
the difference to be that one is a refusal of providing a service which
non-discrimination statutes require, and the other is just a gesture. If they
were doing something like sitting out of games then... well they'd mostly
just be hurting themselves.
It is perhaps too fine a point for the author of this article to understand, but
no one is forcing anyone to be 'patriotic'. The intent here is to
show respect for the flag of a country, in this case the US. Wouldn't the
players stand in respect for the flag and national anthem of any other country
in the world? I suggest they would. This display is very disrespectful and the
NFL can do without my support and tv viewership. Those folks who don't
view this as further anti-US sentiment are wrong, IMO.
As an attorney, surely Mr. Hatch understands the meaning of the word
"force." Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude that he has
deliberately misused it in an attempt to deceive the gullible. As evidenced by
the other comments here, it seems to have worked.Next, Mr. Hatch
refers to Nazis. I stopped reading after that nonsense. No, Mr. Hatch, patriotic
Americans are NOT Nazi-sympathizers and it is deeply offensive to imply that we
Too many post on the wrong side of the RIGHT issue. As we have seen, Trump won
on tis one. It's not "forced patriotism," it respect for something
dear to most Americans. Of course there are the uber progressive liberals that
hate this country and see more wrong than right, but that's because
progressive liberals see everyone except "white men" as victims. I for
one am glad the NFL found some backbone.
@Mark MontanaRE: "I do not get offended by someone kneeling during the
national anthem. I see it as a powerful message of the strength of what the US
stands for"...---I would be with you, if they made it clear they
were doing it out of respect for America, and not disrespect. But to the
contrary... player spokesmen have said they are doing it because they can not
support what the American flag stands for.I get that they have the
right to do it. Nobody's forcing them to do anything. Getting tired of all
the comments pretending if you make a comment you are forcing them to do
something. We have no ability to force any NFL player to do anything. Just
pointing out the tradition, and what we think they should do to show respect
(no force involved).Kappernick sitting during the flag ceremony was
not out of respect. He clearly stated he can't support the American flag.
Now people are joining him. Some have stated that they also can't support
the American flag. Others are showing support for fellow players, others are
protesting Trump. I get it. But don't pretend they are all just trying to
be ultra-respectful by kneeling when the tradition is to stand for the flag.
This flag worship is not patriotism, it is nationalism and it is sick. If you
are more devoted to the flag and a song than you are to the constitution then
you are not a patriot, you are a cosplaytriot. The funny part of this whole
thing is that the same people who like to talk about '2nd amendment
solutions' are the same people who are all twisted up because some NFL
player wont prostrate themselves in the exact same way these fake patriots
demand. Freedom isnt just a reich wing talking point. 'Love my country, right or wrong' is a horrible idea. I love my
country when it is right and try to fix it when it is wrong.
I agree that forced patriotism won't work. However I also believe that NFL
patrons have the option of boycotting teams whose players show such disrespect
and the team owners have the option of firing any player whom they believe
reflect negatively on their franchise. The other issue, as I see it, is that
these take-a-knee players object to things that aren't as bad as they
portray them. So-called murdering cops are extremely rare and although racism
does exist in this country, it doesn't exist only in white people.
I'll put this country up against any other country on earth.
Mr. Hatch doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word
"force." To inform millionaire entertainers that they may no longer be
employed if they offend their audience with a corrosive false narrative
("hands up don't shoot" never happened -- look it up) is common
sense and doesn't come close to force.And seriously, a Nazi
comparison? Why in the world such an inflammatory and extremist editorial would
even be published by the Deseret News should give pause to every subscriber. I
wonder how the DN would feel about being called Stalinists? Because that's
what they're inviting when they allow their readers to be called Nazi
It is a free country as long as you do what the Fox News crowd thinks is the
most important issue ever.
Social protests have always divided societies, and this one is no different.
The good news is the necessity of standing for the anthem is an opinion, not a
law. What is disturbing here is the blatant inability of so many to
see beyond their own worlds. AZROD, "I am curious why none of
them is protesting abusive husbands who play in the NFL or the murder rate in
many of the gun free zones of America or black on black murder. "If I see a systemic social issue I feel is wrong, is there any logic that says
I have to protest all the wrongs in society to be logical? Of course not.
It's only blind partisanship that requires, or even thinks of that. Sanefan, "If these dedicated protesters do nothing during the
offseason or any other time throughout the entire year to protest besides kneel
for a couple of minutes once a week, how serious am I to take them in their
dedicated cause?"You insinuate here that they don't, and
you have no information as to whether they do or don't. In fact Kaperneck
does spend his entire time in the community now. Have an opinion,
but have an informed opinion.
The more comments I read from those who want to force the NFL players to stand
during the song, the more I support the players.Now, that is a
extraordinarily contrary way to make a decision. However, the grossly
misleading arguments that emanates from the "Anthem-ites" convinces me
that the respectful kneeling during the National Anthem is not only appropriate
and timely but also absolutely necessary.We are a democracy (sort
of) and with protections for free speech. You don't have to look at the
players or listen to their rationales. However, you must allow them that
freedom. And certainly you want your freedom to explain your questionable
rationales that differ from the players. That is how it works. Unless you
don't really believe in free speech that is.
BarVincent - Visalia, CAOct. 10, 2017 10:47 p.m.As a veteran, I
support the players---my_two_cents_worth - university place, WAOct. 10, 2017 8:02 p.m.This fan and vet stands/kneels with thr NFL
players ========= Agreed.This Veteran ALSO
supports the players.Racism, Sexism, and Nationalism in America is wrong,
and needs to stop.I fought to defend those very "Freedoms"
the NFL players are showing, NOT for a rag flag or a rah-rah song....A fakeriot is someone who shunned serving, waves a flag, and then runs
around telling everyone how much more 'patriotic' they are.
“Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of
opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly
repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and
creates a country where everyone lives in fear."[Special Message
to the Congress on the Internal Security of the United States, August 8,
1950]” ― Harry Truman“A patriot must always
be ready to defend his country against his government.” ―
Edward Abbey“If I were to remain silent, I'd be guilty of
complicity.” ― Albert Einstein“Thinking is
the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
— Henry Ford
Bottom line so far as the owners are concerned, this is having an effect on t.v.
ratings and attendence. This is degrading their business.Add this
to the fact that the narrative of the kneelers is false. 'Hands up
don't shoot' which this stems from never happened.The
black man in Ferguson Missouri was shot because he was running from a policeman,
then turned around and charged after him. This after he struggled with the
policeman trying to steal his gun.
I do not get offended by someone kneeling during the national anthem. I see it
as a powerful message of the strength of what the US stands for, namely freedom.
Could those kneeling do so in Russia, North Korea, Turkey, or many other
nations? No they could not, at least not and live to speak of the experience.
It brings to mind the rather famous photo of the college student standing in
front of a tank in Tianamen Square many years ago. Where is he today? Still in
prison serving time.The very idea of taking a knee is what is great
about the United States. It embodies the very foundation of our nation. That these rich athletes cannot find a better way to help change the
inequalities found is discouraging, and not surprising. Change can be hard and
often requires real sacrifice, which apparently most of these athletes and not
willing to make. I refuse to get angry, to take offense at their actions, but
I do pause and shake my head at their lack of commitment to real justice. Like
so many today, this is about appearances and not real change.
The players are disrespecting our flag, country and anthem by kneeling during
the playing of the national anthem.Period.I would slap
my own kids if they did the same.Sundays are much more quiet than
they used to be at my home.
A few years ago the CEO of Mozilla was forced to resign when the
'internet' discovered he donated to a defense of marriage proposition
six years earlier. So forcing patriotism is somehow horrible but forcing
conformity to liberal views to keep your job is OK?
In 2015 258 black males were killed by the police. That same year over 6000
black males were killed by other black males. What exactly are they protesting
How should black people be allowed to protest? It seems like any
time they want to take up their constitutional rights people have a problem with
it. They aren't rioting or being violent. They are peacefully protesting
something they find wrong with society. If that isn't
showcasing American values I don't know what is.
Protesting my country is my right.It is also what makes this country
different from Iran or China. We are not a dictatorship...yet.
Utah Girl Chronicles, you say it is Republicans who are saying "If your not
with us you are against us". I beg to differ. It is the liberal democrats
who only believe in free speech if you agree with them. It is not the
republicans who block liberal speakers from adressing young minds at our
universities, it is not republicans who are hitting liberal protesters with
bicycle locks, and it is not republicans who are holding rallies and chanting
"what do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want it? Now!" It is the
republicans who honor all parts of the constitution, not just the parts that
protect their viewpoints. Voice a dissenting view with the liberals and
immediately get labeled a nazi and a bigot. I never said that football players
don't have the right to protest inequality, the workplace is just not the
place for it. And for the record I am personal friends with several former NFL
players and they agree that most of their teammates were spoiled, pampered, and
entitled, of course there are exceptions to every rule.
Do our constitutional rights extend into company time? They have the right to
say what they want and do what they want on their own time, but when you work
for someone else, you have to follow their rules. It's not
forced. They have the right to quit their job and go elsewhere.
First of all, the fans reaction began long before President Trump chimed in so
stop with more of the fake news people.Secondly, no one is passing a law
or saying they can't kneel or express their heartfelt sorrow over the
terrible injustices they are claiming to protest.I am curious why none of
them is protesting abusive husbands who play in the NFL or the murder rate in
many of the gun free zones of America or black on black murder. There is
a time and a place to get the most effective response but doing it during the
national anthem is the wrong time and the wrong place.But, of course, they
are free to protest just as we are free to boycott them. Guess we'll see
what is more important to them, their pay checks or their pitiful 5 minute
weekly grandstanding. If these dedicated protesters do nothing during the
offseason or any other time throughout the entire year to protest besides kneel
for a couple of minutes once a week, how serious am I to take them in their
dedicated cause?And exactly which narrative are we supposed to be
respecting every time one of these peace loving, law abiding, loving family type
guys decides to protest the United States of America?Clearly, th
How many employers allow their employees to protest during work. Can't
stand the hypocrites. Turned off the nfl.
@ 2 bits"Did the same thing not happen to the Duck Dynasty guy
....?"I have no interest in the "Duck Dynasty guy" and
have no idea what he has to do with the NFL controversy. "Captain
Kangaroo" didn't see himself as a political force and he didn't
build a pedestal for himself so he could foist his religious beliefs on us. Duck
Dynasty guy should follow Captain Kangaroo's lead.It's a
shame some guy who lives in a Louisiana swamp has such political gravitas in the
Republican party. Reality TV stars are little more than real-life cartoon
characters. Republican party is getting more cartoonish every day. I can't
believe I'm even writing about Duck Dynasty guy.
As a veteran, I support the players
@Utah Girl ChroniclesRE: "Republicans see it as a "either
you're with us or you're against us" mentality"...and
"These NFL players are the modern-day equivalent of the Dixie
Chicks"...---Did the same thing not happen to the Duck Dynasty
guy who explained his religious views in a media interview?Remember
that?Obviously it's not just Republicans.===I think the Duck Dynasty guy picked the right place to express his views
(which some saw as offensive) not on the job. It wasn't on the show. It
wasn't on the job. It was in a media interview outside his work where the
reporter asked him about his religious views on same sex marriage.Both Dixie Chicks and NFL and NBA players who do it on the job are using the
wrong place and time IMO (on the job). Dixie Chicks were making disparaging and
insulting comments about President Bush from the stage, during their concerts
(and it offended some of their conservative fans at the concerts).NFL and NBA players who bring it to the game are wrong. Express it in
interviews with the media after the game, like King James did. He did it
right.When you come to work... work. Don't work on personal
projects/agendas. Do your job.
I guess I should get worked up over this, because I love my country, vets,
police officers, puppies, etc. but the kneeling thing just doesn't bother
me that much. These players aren't spitting on the flag, burning the flag,
or in any other way destroying the flag. They aren't being obscene or
offensive. In game after game I've seen them with hands over hearts looking
very respectful. Flags all over the country were flown at half-mast
last week. We do this as a symbol of our sadness and to show respect for those
who have lost their lives. We are not disrespecting our flag when we do this. We
don't hate our country when we do this. These NFL players go down on one
knee - half mast if you will - in a symbolic gesture of sadness and to show
respect for those who have lost their lives. If they had intended to
be disrespectful when this all started over a year ago (people didn't get
upset about it until Trump told them to - now that is leadership!) they could
have done any number of things that were truly offensive, rude, etc. For a crowd
that likes to mock others by calling them "snowflakes " to be so hurt
and upset by this is hypocritical.
@Fullypresent,RE: "Trump put the NFL in a terrible position. He
crossed a line trying to dictate patriotism"...---Actually...
this was going on before Trump even came along.And he didn't
dictate patriotism. Standing for the flag has been a traditional way of showing
your love for America for hundreds of years before Trump came along.Trump didn't change or dictate anything. Standing when the flag passes
by and when the National Anthem is played has been a national tradition in
America for centuries (not just since Trump took office).===IMO Disrespecting the flag and the anthem of our nation is the wrong way
to protest. And protesting your personal grievances while on the job is the
wrong place and time for it. Do it outside work hours, and not on your
employer's facilities, especially if your employer doesn't agree with
your protesting America.===Team owners are in a tough
spot now.Some owners are uncomfortable with the players protests.
They don't dare stand up to the players. But they know the fans are
offended by what the players are doing.Offend players and they may
make trouble and ruin team unity. Offend fans and they may turn on your team.
Trump put the NFL in a terrible position. He crossed a line trying to dictate
patriotism. If we dictate patriotism how are we different than Putin or Kim
Jung-Um? A lot of blood has been shed for the freedoms we enjoy. We should not
dismiss that by dictating patriotism. The national anthem is
important to our country. What it means and stands for is important to our
country. We have family and friends that had served in all branches of the
military. I will continue to stand for the anthem in honor of them and all
others that have honorably fought for our freedoms. At the same time
there is a terrible amount of social injustice in this country that
shouldn't be ignored. Our current president pours gas on those social
injustice fires in a variety of ways. Has he considered what is the world of
sports without all the black athletes we have? They have a right to express
their frustration and concern over the social injustices they are up against.
I fully support the right of NFL players to take a knee during the National
Anthem. Peaceful speech/conduct to protest is protected under the 1st amd and
must always be legal. There must never be any government penalties for such
conduct. If employers want to fire employees or fans want to take their
business elsewhere, they have that right.In exactly the same way, I
support the right of bakers, florists, photographers, and reception center
owners to peacefully exercise their 1st amd rights to avoid providing support to
any event that offends them. This includes homosexual "weddings" or
receptions, religious events, political events, racial (white, black, or other)
superiority events, and so on. Government must not force support, acceptance,
nor love.If the public wishes to take business elsewhere, they
always have that right. Just as they did for some who supported Prop 8. But
government must never force speech. It must never force the use of creative
talent to support events or messages.Forced patriotism is bad.
Forced social acceptance is no better.Awaiting the "but
that's different" rationale from some who only support free speech they
So, now according to reports, The NFL owners at the direction of the Commish are
going to require players to stand during the Anthem or face disciplinary
actions. Also, ESPN disciplines an anchor for making hateful and deragatory
remarks about Trump and Jones. Why, the NFL has long had special tax exemption
status (You libs should really jump on this issue) and Trump, the fans, and
sponsors are hitting the NFL and ESPN where it hurts, the pocketbook. As I
posted 2 days ago, you will see drastic changes, even I am surprised just how
soon. Again, Trump won.
I don't accept the premise that what is happening with the NFL protesters
can in any way be equated with the rise of National Socialism in Germany. Who
is coercing whom? The players, rather than protesting on their own time, are
forcing their fans, the people who pay their salaries, to witness their
protesting whether they want to or not. That is where the real coercion is.
The article is poorly written. Straw man and invoking Hitler are beneath
serious discussion. Who is demanding criminal penalties for the NFL players?
Every comment I have read supports their right to kneel with no more
ramifications than what peaceful social scorn and market forces may impose.The comments, however, are most articulate and persuasive.@Prometheus Platypus, @Frozen Fractals , @Furry1993, @Utah Girl Chronicles:You do a fine job of differentiating between the true cause of the
protest and the less noble reasons opponents would impart to the NFL players.
You argue articulately for 1st amd rights to peacefully protest.So
why do you take such a lesser tact and position when it comes to bakers,
florists, photographers, and reception center owners regarding homosexual
"marriage" events?Why do you refuse to admit the difference
between unlawful discrimination against an individual and the 1st amd right to
peacefully refuse to participate in an event one finds offensive?Why
do you want govt imposed penalties for peacefully "taking a knee" on
providing services to homosexual "weddings"?Forced
patriotism is bad. Is forced love and acceptance any better?
Standing for the national anthem is part of the NFL rules. It states that if
they don't they are subject to dismissal. Unless the NFL changes their
rules, they are not allowed to take a knee. Oh, and yes, it is totally
@ DrMAN"That must be the CTE/TBI talking."Chronic irreversible brain injuries are hilarious. We get it.
@patriot “fans stand with our vets and police.”This fan and vet stands/kneels with thr NFL players and kindly asks that those
who are so offended by others exercising their rights not use me as cover for
their hurt feelings.
Ask a bunch of men who are probable to have CTE/TBI how to go about solving
racial and other injustices in the nation and their solutions to those very
serious problems are protesting the flag and national anthem. That must be the
CTE/TBI talking. I’ll excuse them for that.It’s like me
protesting birthdays (e.g., refusing to sing, kneeling down, raising my fist in
the air) because diseases take the lives of thousands everyday. So, lets not
celebrate life because we haven’t figured out yet how to overcome death.
That’s basically what these NFLers are doing: let’s not celebrate
the unity and values of our nation because sometimes we fall short of the
ideals.Again, probably just their CTE/TBI talking.
Remember the old joke: I went to a fight last night, and a hockey game broke
out.It is cheap and lazy to grab the podium at work to promote your
personal cause. And pardon me for being offended when I paid $75 to see a
football game and I get slapped in the face before it starts.Surely
this attorney has studied case law and knows the Supreme Court's rather
liberal interpretation of what is considered appropriate. Our nation has given
broad latitude to protest venues and opportunities.Why must these
players use the flag? And why the game?Get a room. No one wants to
see it in the NFL.
these players aren't protesting injustice...they are much too fickle and
shallow. These players have a combination of America hate and Trump hate and
they couldn't care less about out vets. They are just piling on after
Kapernick started his hate America rant. Fans do NOT stand with fake
actually people see through forced patriotism as fake. People see the NFL as
fake...the players are fake..and fans boo and burn tickets and simply stay home.
America is bigger than the NFL ...the pampered misinformed and unappreciative
players don't see it that way. The players I think are in shock and angry
that fans don't stand with them....fans stand with our vets and police.
@ Backbonedr"Do you see the irony of the wealthiest most
pampered bunch of people on the planet protesting inequality?"What a ridiculous premise. Some of these NFL guys can barely get out of bed on
Monday mornings. Brett Farve and Jim McMahon can't always remember the
names of their children. Dave Duerson shot himself and and left behind a note
asking that his brain be examined for CTE. These guys pay a tremendous price to
play a sports that entertains millions.I once worked with two former
NFL players, Allan Ellis and Willie Holman. They were friends of mine. Willie
passed away at 57 and Allan died at 62. Read their online obituaries and you
will see how they gave back to their communities. They gave back to their final
days.A lot of these NFL guys know oppression because they've
experienced it firsthand. Their families and friends have been hassled by
police. If these men feel they have a brief career window to impact how others
think -- based on their own experiences -- do you think calling them
"wealthy and pampered" is going to stop them? Why not look at this from
another perspective?Say what you will but I don't see these NFL
players calling anyone names.
This isn't about patriotism. It's about respect, and the NFL players
that kneel are being very disrespectful.
Well said, Justin Hatch. You are exactly correct in your analysis and comment.
If you can't stand with your hand over your heart honoring those who gave
you your freedom, then I can't stand to watch you play.
If the players don't like US there is a big world out there that would take
their million dollar salaries.
@Backbonedr"Mr. Hatch, do you see the irony of the wealthiest most
pampered bunch of people on the planet protesting inequality?"Well this isn't income inequality being talked about. And besides,
what's wrong with people who aren't directly affected by something
(assuming that is even accurate) protesting on behalf of other people? Men can
support women's rights. White people can support racial civil rights
issues. Heterosexual people can support LGBT rights.
Backbonedr said: "Mr. Hatch, do you see the irony of the wealthiest most
pampered bunch of people on the planet protesting inequality?"--The inequality they are protesting, isn't about the economy, is it?"I have no problem with anyone being a social warrior on their own
time, but what job in the country allows you to do it at work? "--Apparently the job of president and vice president, and on our dime
literally, not a private team owner. "I am not disputing that
there is inequality at times, but this is still the land of opportunity for all.
" --Except those who experience inequality, right, but again,
this isn't about economic inequality."I am a 49er fan who
has not watched a game since this whole thing started because I can't stand
the hypocrisy." --What hypocrisy? "Employers
have a right to enforce codes of conduct for their employees, and having them
stand for the national anthem is not unreasonable."--Then
shouldn't it be up to them, and their employee's, not a president,
desperately trying to divert attention from his continuing downward spiral?
Mr. Hatch, do you see the irony of the wealthiest most pampered bunch of people
on the planet protesting inequality? I have no problem with anyone being a
social warrior on their own time, but what job in the country allows you to do
it at work? I am not disputing that there is inequality at times, but this is
still the land of opportunity for all. I am a 49er fan who has not watched a
game since this whole thing started because I can't stand the hypocrisy.
Employers have a right to enforce codes of conduct for their employees, and
having them stand for the national anthem is not unreasonable
Republicans see it as a "either you're with us or you're against
us" mentality. Trump exemplifies this thinking. A great example of this
mentality was when Bush was ramping up for war against Iraq in 2003.
Conservative entertainers O'Reilly and Hannity repeatedly stressed that
anyone against the war was "un-American". The Dixie Chicks
took a large brunt of that abuse. These NFL players are the modern-day
equivalent of the Dixie Chicks.