Jello,Passer Ratings? What are you talking about? Critchlow had a decent rating (not great) of 126.4 and that was against a very
weak opponent.Mangum had an average rating of 136.0 (correction to
my previous post) against far superior competition over 13 games in 2015...
That's the season that he won "Most outstanding Freshman Player of the
Year" from the Columbus TD club. In 2016 (a year with a Bowl game that you
embarrassingly criticize Mangum for) he had a Rating of 152.0. This year, even
when playing hurt, his rating was 110.8 against far superior competition.I don't want to criticize Joe, I like him... I think he could
possibly be the starter in a couple of years but he will have some tough
competition... i.e Dinklemann who had been an LSU commit from Texas recently
turned to BYU for 2018... Jalen Hall, an all stater from Maple Valley, who
returns from his mission in 2018... and possibly Tanner McKee from California
who is considered one of the best pro set QBs coming out of HS this year...
he'll serve a mission first but will be back in 2020... he has 20+ offers
from big time programs... but BYU is still in the hunt.A little
homework helps credibility.
@jello"poyboy" huh? Lol... That's cute... what are you,
10?If Mangum was playing against the last 3 teams on the schedule
and if he were healthy he would be throwing for far more than 160 yards a
game... The proof is in the season before last when he averaged nearly 300 yards
a game and a QB rating of 139+ against much tougher opponents than UNLV... You
know, the 2015 season, after which you claimed him to be a poor player... The
same season that the Columbus TD club awarded him the trophy for the most
outstanding Freshman of the year, the season that earned him a name on several
watch lists (Unitas, Baugh, and even Heisman) in 2016 before it was determined
that he would be Hill's back up.Mangum isn't going
anywhere next year... He will be starting for a much better BYU team... a team
that will have more experienced and more healthy RBs and especially WRs.His numbers are bad this year, but that's not just a reflection on
his poor health but it's also a reflection on WRs that can't get off
the line of scrimmage, can't get open, and can't catch the ball when
it hits their hands or their torso... I'm sure that you've heard this
before but FB truly is a team sport.
@Poy BoyIf a car only goes 5 mph and you drive it long enough, it
still gets you there. You have thrown up all of these rankings of Mangum's
days playing potato farmers and then throw out some "total" stats. But
let's really look at what the stats say.Mangum's passer
ratings this year: 39, 14, 13, 15, 53, 34, 75, and 56 for a yearly average of
33.5. His average passer rating against P5's this year is 14.He did a little better in 2015 with a yearly average of 70.7. When comparing
against other college QB's, that is awful. Sadly it was pathetically worse
against the P5's he faced. Remember both Utah games as well as Missouri
and Michigan? To compare, in Hill's 2 complete seasons his
rating was 116 and 118, more than double Mangum's career average.When rated against every BYU QB that has started a full season since 1972 he
has the worst passer rating.So when Critchlow comes out as an
untested rookie and in the SJSU and UNLV game he throws up passer ratings of 178
and 140' both better than any single game Mangum has played, yes, I say he
so far is a much better option than Mnagum. And in your words, its not even
@jello,It appears you consider yourself a better judge of talent
than Scout, 247, ESPN, the Elite 11who picked him as one of the top 3 QBs in
America before signing with BYU and the Columbus TD Club who picked him as the
most outstanding newcomer to FBS NCAAF following his freshman year in 2015. It
appears to me that you give yourself far too much credit in your appraisal of
talent (especially at the QB position) of college FB players.In 2015
(a year that you claim that he didn't do very well) He recorded the
following stats:He finished 9-4; threw 446 times with 267 completions for
a 60% completion rate; for a total of 3,377 yards (the most of any BYU Freshman
QB ever); 23 TDs (most by a BYU Freshman QB ever) against 10 Ints; and an
overall QB rating for the year of 136.01.His 2015 performance landed
him on the Sammy Baugh and Heisman watch list his sophomore year despite the
fact that Hill got the start (which BTW I agreed with).In 2016 he
really didn't play much at all until he took over for Hill against the #2
team in the MWC in a Bowl game (a tough position for anyone)... He still led the
team to a win.Mangum is by far the better QB and it ain't even
And in case you think this is band wagon jumping, I have been on record as to my
feelings about his abilities for over 2 years. Hill was the right person to
start last year. Starting Mangum would have accomplished at least one thing
though. We would have found out a year earlier that he was not the answer.
@poyman "I appreciate the fact that Critchlow had a good camp and a
good game against lowly UNLV... But to claim that he is better than Mangum is
ridiculous. Mangum has played against some high end competition and
some very tough Defenses (Nebraska, Boise State, LSU, Wiscosin, Mississippi
State and even utah, etc.). "It's not ridiculous to say
that Mangum has been a below average D1 QB. He has played horrendously against
good competition and average to bad against lower competition.Critchlow most likely has bad games ahead of him also, but this one game he
looked head and shoulders above any game played by Mangum this year. And before
you continue on with this bit about the difference in competition, Mangum when
perfectly healthy and having a full camp to get ready for Portland State looked
horrible. Yes the Portland State from a lower league that has yet to win a game
and was crushed by about everybody that has played them other than BYU.Mangum was not good 2 years ago, he was not good in last years bowl game, and
he has been even worse this year. It may not seem possible, but I believe if we
started him next year, he may even play worse.
@talkinsports - Gilbert, AZNov. 13, 2017 10:32 a.m."Let's finish this season, before making predictions for next
season."NO! I'll predict what I want when I want."That said, it's not unheard of for a 9+ win team to crash and burn
the next season and not even qualify for a bowl...nor is it unheard
of for a 9+ loss team to exceed all expectations and have a great season the
following year."How hypocritical to call me out for making
predictions for next year and then make a prediction for next year.
I appreciate the fact that Critchlow had a good camp and a good game against
lowly UNLV... But to claim that he is better than Mangum is ridiculous. Mangum has played against some high end competition and some very tough
Defenses (Nebraska, Boise State, LSU, Wiscosin, Mississippi State and even utah,
etc.). Smokin Joe has not had All American Lineman and LBs slicing
through the Offensive line on blitzes, he's not had to throw against NFL
ready DBs... The one chance that we got to see him get a few snaps in against
those kind of teams was one or two series against Boise State during garbage
time and when the "D" was in a prevent... I guess he also got a series
or two against lowly ECU. His performances were less than remarkable. He works an entire game against UNLV and throws for less than 200 yards, but
gets over 250 yards from Canada and Kafensis on the ground and because we won
the game we're ready to kick Mangum (the Columbus Club's Freshman of
the year in 2015 with well over 3,000 yards passing and double digit TDs and a
co MVP in the Elite 11 with Heisman winner and Tampa Bay starting QB Jameis
Winston) to the curb. Give me a break.
Francisco"Would you rather have had one of the top four
quarterbacks had been playing?"I liked what I saw from
Critchlow, so not necessarily.Hoge is injured, so him playing is a
moot point, although he looked pretty good before he was injured in the Utah
State game.Koy Detmer was never given a fair chance to show what
he's capable of, since he was thrown into the fire with little
preparation.I would like to see Ty give Kafentzis the opportunity to
throw once in a while, to keep defenses honest when he's operating out of
the wildcat.I'm disappointed that Tanner never demonstrated the
poise, decision making ability, and throwing accuracy that most BYU fans
expected. As far as I'm concerned, unless Tanner improves dramatically by
next August, he's had his chance and it's time to move on.
Hey Blue Coug. Would you rather have had one of the top four
quarterbacks had been playing?
For those having a meltdown because of one down season,just remember
that this happens to everybody.Florida (3-6) and Florida State
(3-6), which have both won National Championships since 2008, could be watching bowl season from their couches.
Let's finish this season, before making predictions for next season.That said, it's not unheard of for a 9+ win team to crash and burn
the next season and not even qualify for a bowl...nor is it unheard
of for a 9+ loss team to exceed all expectations and have a great season the
Nobody will ever confuse UNLV for LSU or Wisconsin, but I thought the Cougs made
some major improvements in play and coaching. I think this Critchlow kid has a
good upside. I liked his poise and presence. For once, I liked Detmer's
play calling. Thank you for running the ball and being committed to it. A
strong running game is a quarterback's best friend. Hopefully, the Cougs
have found a winning combination going forward.
@CV Storm - Hyrum, UTNov. 11, 2017 12:59 p.m."I can hear
the rumblings beginning now. With Critchlow as the BYU quarterback next year the
Cougs will be in the National Championship discussions. You can just feel it in
the tone of some of these posts. Be careful Coug fans, be careful, a win against
a lower tier MWC team does not make you National Championship caliber. But the
Cougs did look like a team for once."The only people posting
this is Ute fans. The most BYU fans have said is that with a different QB we
may have beaten lessor competition like USU, ECU and Fresno State.Next year we play Arizona, Cal, UofW, Utah and Boise State, Realisticlly we
could win 2 of those games. We then beat McNeese St., USU, Hawaii, Northern
Illinois, and New Mexico State. I predict either 7-4 or 6-5. The only people
predicting higher than that are the haters.
@I bleed Red and Blue - Logan, UTNov. 11, 2017 11:02 a.m."We as fans need to take this all into perspective. Yes, Canada and
Critchlow looked efficient together. To say this is a better combo then the
previos QB/RB is a little bit of a smoke screen. Other then ECU, the other QB/RB
played much much better teams then UNLV. I am hopeful for the future, but this
game and the next two will not show me anything other then we cam beat teams
rank in the 100's. I will keep my hopes for next year, but other then
good reps for the new QB. This years remaining games will not tell me
much."How about this. Currently the worst ranked team on this
years schedule is winless Portland State. Mangum looked horrible against
Portland State. He then continued to look bad against every other team we
played. Forget the core, just look at his performance. Critchlow is better and
I'm glad he is starting for us.
What 2 doWhat exactly will this season’s MWC champion be
playing for that BYU couldn’t have achieved with a winning record as an
The MWC has said BYU can come back to the conference. Do it! Give the team
something to play for.
As the game progressed, the team seemed to be different. Definitely the best
played game of the year. Hopefully, they will keep it up and finish strong.
Promising start for a true Freshman, walkon QB who has only been back from his
mission for 5 months.Reading defenses, finding open receivers, and
putting a little touch on his passes,and most importantly,leading BYU to a much needed win.
After losing to ECU I didn't think BYU would win another game. I'm
glad I was wrong.It was only UNLV but it was a win. Hopefully the
remaining players not sidelined by injuries (all 11) will benefit the team the
next few seasons.
CV Storm, I read the National Championship and Heisman Trophy thing several
times weekly from Ute fans, never from BYU fans. It's a favorite of Ute
fans though.Anytime anyone expresses optimism, that comment will follow
from a Ute fan, like night follows day.
I don't believe the word "power" is the right description of
We want 'Bama.
I can hear the rumblings beginning now. With Critchlow as the BYU quarterback
next year the Cougs will be in the National Championship discussions. You can
just feel it in the tone of some of these posts. Be careful Coug fans, be
careful, a win against a lower tier MWC team does not make you National
Championship caliber. But the Cougs did look like a team for once.
Well done Cougars.They played and beat the team in front of them and
I have little doubt they'll do the same next week with UMass.Critchlow has arm talent and made some good throws. But he wasn't
throwing against LSU or Wisconsin. His bad reads and throws into double
coverage resulted in incompletions rather than interceptions mostly because of
the level of competition. Mangum had success against teams of
UNLV's ilk and folks believed it meant he was unstoppable and couldn't
understand why he struggled against top tier teams, thought he was regressing
and blamed the coaches.Nothing wrong with celebrating and enjoying
the win. The danger is reading too much into it...just as it was dangerous to
read too much into the losses at the beginning of the year. In both cases, much
can be explained by the level of competition.
After beating UNLV, it took all of about 20 seconds for the true blue faithful
to come on with the usual "coulda, woulda ,shoulda" blather. Ranting
about 10 win seasons and being nationally ranked. Can't wait to see the
elation if they beat highly regarded UMass. 😂
We as fans need to take this all into perspective. Yes, Canada and Critchlow
looked efficient together. To say this is a better combo then the previos QB/RB
is a little bit of a smoke screen. Other then ECU, the other QB/RB played much
much better teams then UNLV. I am hopeful for the future, but this game and the
next two will not show me anything other then we cam beat teams rank in the
100's. I will keep my hopes for next year, but other then good reps
for the new QB. This years remaining games will not tell me much.
This was a good win for the team and the coaches, they really needed it. UNLV
isn't a great team but they were good enough to win at Fresno St, so
they've got some talent. It was fun to see Critchlow and Canada do really
well. Go Cougars!
Juice Box"Looked like two evenly matched teams."BYU and Utah were more evenly matched, only a 6-point spread,than
BYU and UNLV, a 10-point spread, that could have very easily been 17 points, if
Kalani hadn't decided to call of the dogs and take a knee from the 3 yard
Let’s not forget this was a bad UNLV team. The cougars should look good
against them. It has been a long time since UNLV was relevant.
As I have previously posted, some players (for reasons unknown) just do not
impress in practice but are amazing in games. Perhaps this is why Critchlow was
not even considered to be in the mix of QBs for this season. But he
impressed with his poise, accuracy, and energy. And throwing himself into a
block in the open field? Priceless!Still more missionary body than college
athlete body, the future is bright for him to develop into the QB that Ty Detmer
needs for his offense.Kafentzis looked great as a runner. I still hope
that they develop some pass plays for him.Again as I have posted, Taysom
Hill was effective because he was a QB who could run like a running back.
Kafentzis could be amazing as running back who can pass like a QB. Very
difficult to defend.
@TruCoug "Is it just me or with Critchlow QBing does our line block better
and our receivers get more separation?" I think the offensive
line blocked better because UNLV had a less than par defensive line. Critchlow
seemed to have plenty of time to make the right reads and did a decent job.
Still, this is a good win and a step in the right direction. Kudos to the OL to
give Critchlow the time he needed to get more comfortable in the pocket.
Great win. Why? Last night might end up as a kind of turning point. It's
true that UNLV is not the soft touch it used to be---the Rebels may be a legit
force in the MW with those receivers and coaches---but that's not it.
Rather, Squally seems like he's found his mojo (has he worked thru his
grieving for the tragic death in his family?), we found a QB, and Detmer finally
tools to carve up a D, not the blunt knives he had earlier. Thank you Coach
Lamb for bringing Mr. Critchlow when you came from So Utah.
I saw in Critchlow, I hadn’t seen all year in a BYU QB: He held the pocket
and kept his pose, threw the long ball accurately, went through his progressions
instead of telegraphing his primary target, and no interceptions or stupid
decisions!An unsung hero in this game was Hifo. Best performance by
a BYU receiver this year.Canada and the O-Line were terrific.Detmer called a better game except for that 3rd and short in the red
zone when the running game was on fire and he calls a lateral pass to the
sideline.The 2 picks by the D were key to the victory, but other
than that, the pass defense was horrible.
BYU finally found someone with a defensive line worse than their own... it
would be really refreshing to see the BYU secondary within 10 yards of a pass
This historic run is officially over for the 2017 Cougars. We can no longer
compare them to the three worst teams in program history. With 1-2
more wins still on the table, they may elevate themselves above the 10 worst
teams in program history.
After watching the game, I now wonder what our season would be like if we
started Critchlow from the beginning. It was apparent from the beginning that
Mangum was not on target and I think his injury hampered him throughout the
season. I hope BYU does not make the same mistake next year and start Mangum his
senior year and waste a developmental year for Critchlow like they did for
Mangum. I think in the end that proved critical in the development of Mangum.
Now, it's too late for Mangum to recover.
TruCoug"Difference Critchlow threw the ball where the receivers
could catch in stride not at the feet or behind or over the heads of the
receivers."Critchlow also read defenses and checked down his
options, instead locking in on one receiver and telegraphing every pass.
congratulations to the CC boys, and their well deserved win. critchlow looked
poised for such a young whippersnapper, and canada ran with power. deciding point of game might well have been the canada fumble that
wasn't. watching live it looked like a fumble, but the replay looked like
it was caused by ground.
Juice Box"Looked like two evenly matched teams. They should be
conference rivals in the MWC."BYU beat UNLV with their FIFTH
string QB (Mangum, Hoge, Detmer, Kafentzis, Critchlow), a walkon Freshman who
returned from a mission 5 months ago.BYU is now 9-0 (100%),
undefeated versus UNLV in Sam Boyd Stadium.Utah is 6-2(75%) versus
UNLV in Sam Boyd Stadium, including a shutout loss 0-27 to a 10-loss UNLV
team.BYU lead from start to finish and took three consecutive knees
at the UNLV 3-yard line to end the game, or it could very easily have been a
38-21, 17-point win.Not a huge win, but something to build on for
next season. Detmer has finally found a QB who can run his offense.
Jello is Good "Yes. Finally we have a QB. Sorry Mangum had to get injured
but he had to go. Is it just me or with Critchlow QBing does our line block
better and our receivers get more separation?" Difference
Critchlow threw the ball where the receivers could catch in stride not at the
feet or behind or over the heads of the receivers. Gave the offense some rhythm
and kept drives alive. My guess is if Critchlow finishes the season like this
and we win out, the QB job is his regardless of the health of anyone else and
Detmer keeps his job. If we had QB play like this from the
beginning of the season we'd have at least 6 wins and possibly as many as 8
and would be finishing the season at 8-5 or 10-3 plus potential bowl win.
Unfortunately a big what if right now.
Awesome game. Critchlow made the difference. His early pass-first success set up
the run, and Squally took it from there.When the quarterback is
passing accurately and is on all cylinders, it lifts the whole team. BYU was well-prepared. Really proud of the coaches. The defense blew it a few
times, but overall the team was so much better.Play calling was much
better, too, only a few crazy ones, like third and one in the red zone and we
throw a flat-lateral pass, which was overthrown and dropped as well. But it was courageous to see us keep marching down the field when UNLV kept
coming back. That's BYU football!
Much improved offense and nice to see Critchlow & Canada and the rest of the
team do so well. Hopefully Wilstead can continue to red shirt. Hodge still has
an injury as evident when he entered the Fresno state game. He should not have
played last week. His foot injury from the USU game was severe and agrivated
again. Go cougars.
Did Hoge not dress? If so, is he still hurt?
Nice win Coach Sitake! You have yourself what appears to be a very fine QB and
Squally was terrific! Great win and we are hoping the momentum will
continue. This is a rebuilding process so we will just have to be a little
patient. Most fun of all was to see a smile on all the coaches
faces for a change - keep it going baby!
Fun game to watch! Canada and Critchlow looked good largely because of the play
of the offensive line!
As a BYU fan, it's actually kind of sad that BYU won. They were on the
verge of something historic, now that they won (and have a decent chance of
winning at UMASS next week) their losing season is only moderately awful.
The running game looked a ton better with this game. Granted UNLV is not a
powerhouse football team, but I thought the execution of the offensive line in
making a hole for the running back to exploit was a whole lot better than other
games in the season. The passing game looked a bit better as
well.I say well done.
Looked like two evenly matched teams. They should be conference rivals in the
Yay! BYU needed this win badly. Critchlow looks like a great QB for next season
with the other two down. Way to go team!Go BYU Cougars!
Critchlow...where have you been hiding? Great job young man! You give Cougar
Nation a little hope again.
They looked like a complete team tonight. Gameball to Detmer IMO. He called a
great game. I liked the offensive balance. Kafensis (sp?) Bushman, Critchlow,
Canada, the unsung ones on the line... . we all realize that we were not up
against a great team, but nice to see a win. They were not picked to win. Nice
to see balance. Nice to see the opposition gassed and whupped. Go Blue!
Yes. Finally we have a QB. Sorry Mangum had to get injured but he had to go.
Is it just me or with Critchlow QBing does our line block better and our
receivers get more separation?
Congratulations to Joe, Squally, and the BYU team on this win. A win for Joe as
quarterback for a freshman to get a win in his first start. That doesn't
happen very often...maybe only the third time in BYU history. Looks like the
Cougars have found their QB for the rest of the season.
Nice to see the offense come alive! Critchlow was poised, confident, and had an
all around great game. The Offensive line was opening up gaping holes. Squally
Canada was running with patience and determination. Way to wait for the holes
to open up. Haven't really seen that from him.An overall great
game. Always nice to beat UNLV at their home even though it looked like there
were more Cougar fans at the game than UNLV fans.Nice to be back in
the win column.