I cannot fathom how this announcement is offensive to anyone. The
truth remains that LDS youth programing for boys and girls ages 8-12 are
completely unequal. It does not matter to me whether the LDS church continues
to partner with BSA (my son can always go to a community troop outside of
church). It matters VERY MUCH that the church does not invest in my daughter at
the same level as it invests in boys her own age. The message is clear to every
young girl when she sees what her brothers are doing in scouts. So,
we are a Girl Scouts family. It should be notes that the Girl Scouts are not
angry about this change in BSA. They recognize that many young women asserted
their leadership skills to accomplish this change and honor that leadership.
The Girl Scouts simply asserts that it has always been about helping young women
become leaders in their communities.
Maybe the boyscouts will add a badge in rape culture, just like the girl scouts.
Maybe they will work with the food banks and diaper banks and do projects for
the batter women's shelter. Our girl scouts teach financial literacy as
poverty has a female face and women need to know these facts of life. Financial
literacy is important to boys as well. I do hope the boy scouts become more
progressive and less theocratic.
When organizations fail to meet the needs of those who support them they become
extinct: BSA, NFL, Hollywood, The Democrats, The Republicans, etc. It may not
be the road to Hell, but the road to failure that is paved with good intentions
-- well, maybe both. Perhaps all these have reached the zenith of their
Wouldn't the animosity towards the mixing of the genders sort of preclude
the whole marriage thing?
Wow some of these comments are really insane.I know growing up in my
ward the discrepancy between the YW and YM budgets made me feel like a second
rate citizen and I look forward to a separation of the church and the scouts.The members need to realize that the Boy Scouts is not around to do
their bidding. They are opening up to a world that has progressed from the
"Boys like to camp, girls like to cook" mentality.
This is nothing new. I was a Medical Explorer Scout in the 70's, I was 15
yrs old and female. I still have my BSA membership card from then!
Shame on you liberal progressives for destroying yet another great
institution.Time for the LDS Church to move on. The Church has
the camps, resources and infrastructure to go their own way.Enough
with Gender Neutrality.Liberal Social Engineers, showing once again,
that they really don't believe in Diversity at all.
This is what ABC television said about the Girl Scouts reaction: "The Boy
Scouts' house is on fire," Girl Scouts told ABC News in a statement
today. "Instead of addressing systemic issues of continuing sexual assault,
financial mismanagement and deficient programming, BSA's senior management
wants to add an accelerant to the house fire by recruiting girls." Enough
said. Maybe the PC Deseret New will eventually print this report??????
Hmm? What will the United States of America look like in fifty years?
The B.S.A have wanted to expand their base to include females since around 1972
or so. Woman have been leaders and Venture and Explorers members for decades.
Young woman have served as camp staff members since around 1986 or so. The B.S.A
is one of only a handful of scouting organizations around the world that
aren't co-ed. This action will address that. The scouts will be around for
a long time, the world isn't coming to an end.
As a long time scouter and former Scout Master with wood badge credentials I
will follow my LDS church leaders but without enthusiasm or money.
Testimony: The very best scoutmasters and troops never die, they only fade
This is a play for the sinking BSA to become relevant again in society at the
expense of the Girl Scouts organization. Those of us who think this is not a
good (or needed) idea are encouraged to support the Girl Scouts and the
excellent work they do.
The infestation of liberal values are driving this country into a downward
decaying spiral. History repeats itself and the Boy Scouts have become a major
I will continue to follow the prophet. No other question need be asked by me.
To Cactus Pete:Friends of Scouting funds are used to support local
efforts, including council sponsored summer camps, training, scout office
support staff, etc., so the argument that you have been betrayed is a false
narrative. Very little if anything at the local unit level in Utah has changed.
Nothing. And the needs haven't changed either.I will give
time and $ to scouting because it is good for young men.
@65TossPowerTrap - Salmon, IDThe perception of members of the LDS Church
about the Boy Scouts began to change when the leadership of that organization
caved in to political pressures. As a long time scouter I started seeing it as
I helped with the yearly Friends of Scouting campaigns. The attitude of the
typical member has gone from "less interested" to "downright
hostle".They feel betrayed. I agree with them and this was the
last year that I will participate in that fund raising campaign.
The BSA has completely lost their way. That whirring sound you hear is
Baden Powell spinning in his grave. The Church has already announced that
it will DUMP the Varsity/Venture/Explorer programs. It's time to take
the final step of filing for divorce from the BSA. The only reason
Scouting works at all is the dedicated service of UNPAID local scout leaders.
Those leaders will still exist WITHOUT the BSA. We don't need a
bloated, national, PC organization on top of that. We can teach our boys
"scout-like" principles within our own organization. And as an
added benefit, we can end the annual "begging" exercise of Friends of
Scouting. I've made my LAST donation to that fund!
Maxter,I saw a report a few years ago that claimed the national head
of the Boy Scouts earned more than a million dollars per year and that several
executives in some of the local councils made more than $200K per year.If true, that is a lot of money for those who live on a fraction of that
amount and for an organization that relies on donations and has an army of
volunteers doing lots of unpaid work. The money to pay salaries definitely comes
out of the FOS donations. I am not privy to the actual information, but I would
not be surprised if 90% of the funds were used in that way.The Boy
Scouts are free to open the books and calm donor's fears if they are
unfounded, but I doubt they want everyone to know the real story.
so girls are now allowed to become eagles which means they earn camping merit
badges which means girls are on camps withs boys which means men leaders are
with your daughters in the deep woods? Or are there female leaders with your
boys in the deep woods?This has sexual abuse potential written all over it.Also
what about a 16 year old boy and girl ...alone...in the deep woods? I think this
is cystal clear why you shouldn't support BSA anymore. This organization is
being run now by left wing activists. Common sense not allowed.
The new policy to allow girls to participate in scouting is a deliberate attempt
to sexualize the youth of America at a very young age. This is evil, and I am
glad I won't be involved in any way. Remember what the Savior
taught about harming young children.
I wonder how long it will be until a teenage girl gets pregnant at scout camp.
Our young men in the church deserve better.The Holy Priesthood in
all its righteousness deserves better.And we as members of the
church can certainly do better than the Boy Scouts.
Raise your hand if you had a woman lead one of your boys in Cub Scouts. Yeah -
that's what I thought. You realize, of course, that Cub Scouts and
11-year-old Boy Scouts are under the supervision of the Primary President,
right? You realize that co-ed troops have existed in BSA for decades, right?
If so, what in the world is your problem? Nobody is saying that your
12-year-old boy has to share a tent with a 12-year-old girl, so what is your
problem? When it comes to Boy Scouts and Mormons, I am astounded with the
irrationality of some members of my faith.
Ok, as a member of the LDS church this confirms my desire to disassociate
myself from the BSA. As the father of two Eagles and a former scoutmaster,
I'm disappointed that the value of boys having Men models is being
diminished. As has been stated repeatedly here, boy and girls are different.
They think differently, they have different development needs. You are welcome
to disagree with that statement, but a lifetime of experience convinces me
it's true. Memo to the BSA board, "If you want a future with enough
soldiers, emt's, firemen, FBI agents and policemen in it, don't
destroy the BSA."
I gladly give my time to our scout program and the boys. I gladly give to
Friends of Scouting.It's the boys that matter. I've seen
it make a big difference in the lives of young men. All of the pro and con
agendas are near meaningless. We are heading off to a great outdoor adventure
this weekend where boys will learn leadership skills, outdoor skills, enjoy the
great outdoors and get to spend time with wonderful mentors and priesthood
leaders. All the rest is just a distraction. Enjoy the debate, it hardly
@ JoeCapitalist2 - You are correct that Friends of Scouting donations do not
directly go to local units, BUT they also don't go to National BSA, they
stay with the local council. And there a no big executive salaries at the
council level. Councils use this money to help acquire, build and maintain camp
properties and equipment, liability insurance, adult training, district
activities, pay for council staff that help with chartering and registration,
I see the girls scouts are upset by this announcement. Sometimes no matter what
you do it is the wrong thing
Aaaaaaaaaaaand the outgoing generation goes wild.
Thank you Aggie238. I thought I was the only one who knew that the BSA already
had co-ed scout troops for the older scouts. Some people are not only
irrational - they are also uninformed.
I hate to break this to the scout haters that share my religion, but girls can
already belong to the Boy Scouts of America. It's called Venture Scouts -
ages 14 -20. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.
@Oatmeal - Woods Cross Utah:Sir, I couldn't disagree more with
your characterization of "Where did the idea that teens have to be
separated by gender in LDS Church youth programs come from?"The
"idea" for separate program in the Church comes from the inspired
leadership of generations of church leaders who recognized the value in having
different programs for girls and boys. After all the Proclamation on the Family
makes it clear that there are differences in genders and role
differentiation.Wow, there is a lot of confusion in the minds of
many church members as they struggle to navigate in this new PC world that is
emerging. Thank you Elder Oaks for providing some clarity in general conference
to help the confused members with their struggles.
Boys need to have the opportunity to be boys and associate with boys without
girls around.Girls need to have the opportunity to be girls and
associate with girls without boys around.Later in life there is
enough mixing at appropriate times.
"Reflectere" said: "So this is a natural evolution within the
program. The dens and units will still be gender specific, so I don't see
this as a major upheaval of the BSA program".Yeah, just a
requirement to double the number of leaders so that you can run both gender cub
dens. More unisexification of society. Pretty soon both men and
women will dress alike, act alike and even marry within their own sex (oh, I
forgot, they already do that).
@Lilly MunsterYou asserted: "Suggest that young men and women
work together, study together, learn to get along and nurture each other from a
very young age, and you bring out all the suspicions, myths and fears that
already plague the relationships between men and women as adults.There
have been a lot of very negative and misogynistic reactions to this idea.We trust women to raise our children, do all the hard work of holding family,
church and community together, but don't ever suggest that we inflict young
women on young men's private clubs".Wrong. Many of us
simply would posit that this may just be one more effort to "uni-sex"
everything including no differentiation between life roles of women and men.
Many citizens believe there are divinely created differences in the roles of men
and women and that it is perfectly okay to have some differences. Moreover, does this mean that the LDS Church must call additional Cub Scout
leaders so they can have "boy's dens" and "girl's
dens"? Good luck with that as many wards are already stretched to the
breaking point attempting to staff all these callings and positions!
As I continue to motivate my boys to finish their Eagle nonsense like this only
makes it harder.Poor Scouting Leadership and trying to satisfy
everyone instead of just Standing tall and noble will lead to the downfall of
Men are from Mars; Women are from Venus. It is true that boys and girls, men and
women, need to learn to get along. But, sometimes, they need to have their own
spaces. Women together; girls together and men together; boys together. Helps
all of them retain their sanity. And I'm sure the Girl Scouts of America
has a great program.
I am confused by the current conversation regarding gender. Where did the idea
that teens have to be separated by gender in LDS Church youth programs come
from? I can't find such a sentiment in the teachings of Jesus Christ or
even of Joseph Smith. Yeah, I get the whole males/priesthood ordination thing,
but its not like the genders are taught different things religiously, or that
the genders really enjoy different activities these days. The best church youth
activities I have seen have included both YM and YW participants. When my wife was YW's president, she took the girls shooting and taught
them how to fish. They hiked and camped. The YM leaders were actually jealous!
They felt threatened. That is what the ideas of girls in Scouting does. It
removes the gender-specific label and allows girls access to the Scouting
resources. The YW's budget was much smaller than the YM's in that
ward once you factored in the Scouting budget. I think that is the real reason
behind people's irritation. Funding the YW and providing similar outdoor
activities is the metaphorical "elephant in the living room" on this
We already have the Girl Scouts of America! As a life long financial supporter
of both the Girl Scouts of America and the BSA, my money will now go elsewhere!
From article: Michael Surbaugh, the BSA's chief Scout executive "The
values of Scouting — trustworthy, loyal, helpful, kind, brave and
reverent, for example — are important for both young men and women"So apparently not important for young women-- until suddenly they had
this idea.....And now that they've figured this out, it is the
perfect excuse for them to magnanimously do something about it. (Or
was that line just some smooth PC female-affirming spin-- while what they
actually were thinking is they hope this move will increase their slumping
numbers and declining revenue??)
There have been mixed boys and girls in the Scouting movement in Australia for
years and the world hasn't ended yet! In fact Scouting has been invigorated
by the inclusion of girls. The girls who don't want to be in Scouts can
still join the Girl Guides if they wish.For the people using Lord
Baden-Powell's name, his grandson, who lives in Australia, has no problem
with the girls being members of Scouts.
Suggest that young men and women work together, study together, learn to get
along and nurture each other from a very young age, and you bring out all the
suspicions, myths and fears that already plague the relationships between men
and women as adults.There have been a lot of very negative and
misogynistic reactions to this idea.We trust women to raise our children,
do all the hard work of holding family, church and community together, but
don't ever suggest that we inflict young women on young men's private
Wow. What comments. As a current cub scout leader whenever we have a monthly
pack meeting we always have an activity and everyone joins in, cub scouts,
siblings(male and female), and parents. We just want all, and I do mean all,
the children attending to have a good time.We do fun activities and
what's presented is designed to benefit all attending. Male or Female
makes no difference to me as the leader.Having said that we do not
officially register girls for cub scouts and the church has already said that
won't change. So cub scouts still works under the church's
guidelines. It's still a good program designed to help 8-11 young boys as
they grow to young manhood. But at least in the cub pack I run all youth
attending pack meetings benefit from what we do, both boys and girls.I also share many of your concerns about decisions made at the national level.
But it's also my opinion that pulling your support (financial or
volunteering in the program) from scouting because of decisions made at a
national level just hurts the kids. Remember, scouting is all about the kids.
The Mormon Church, I believe, adopted the Boy Scouting Program as a
complimentary auxillary organization to it Priesthood programs. Aiming at
building well rounded and honorable young men. It has served the Church well and
turned out thousands of great men. Sad that Boy Scout Council's initiated
the organizations self destruction years ago by adopting PC demands. This is
just another of the many signs of the times in the decline of a formally
outstanding program, So long Boy Scouts, enjoyed the good old days. Time to
develop new program. Hope those new 'Scout' recruits can build the
retirement funds the Council's Leaders are so focused on building.
Most of the Cub Scout leaders I've ever known have been women, so having
girls in Cub Scouts isn't very shocking. BSA has discussed starting a
program for girls for a long time. Girls have been part of BSA for decades
through Explorer, Varsity, and Venture scouting. So this is a natural evolution
within the program. The dens and units will still be gender specific, so I
don't see this as a major upheaval of the BSA program.
Look, just CHANGE THE NAME to "Scouts of America" and get rid of the
term "BOY" because it no longer matters how you are made or built, what
is masculine or manly or any of that; it's all about PC and not offending
anyone ever about anything ever and letting everyone be a member forever so the
original concept will never be realized as it has changed forever.Or
rename it PC SCOUTS.BTW, I've supported them financially for
years...so now I have a few extra dollars for something else that will be a
better fit for my money.
All BSA is doing is saying girls' organizations are inferior to male
organzations. Girl scouts already exists but no, it is not 'good
enough' because boys have Eagle Scouts which make them superior. There is
indeed a need for girls to lead, learn, grow in a female environment away from
the bullying and domination of boys. Girl scouts provided that space but BSA
undermining GSA membership and organization and is yet again forcing girls to
cave to male model as though superior. Kind of sexist of BSA to undermine an
existing girl's program with its long history and traditions as though BSA
represented 'real' scouting.
Some of the "in this day and age everything is gender neutral language"
claims are way overblown. There still are all male and all female schools in the
US. In Detroit they have all male and all female public schools, something that
would have been rejected 40 years ago. I have also taught at schools
where starting in kindergarten the boys and girls were seperated for recess.
These were public schools.
Just gave my $200 to FOS last week and still proud of it.
First positive news I have heard about a scouting organization for a long time.
I find it sad and disappointing to see so many fellow Mormons preach about
abandoning scouting, because they would prefer to deny other's
participation, despite that participation having literally no impact on
Mormons' ability to participate as we see fit. If scouting is intended to
instill values like honesty, integrity, civil duty, service, volunteerism,
etc... wouldn't we want anyone and everyone to participate? Surely we would
prefer to spread goodness as far as we can? I sure would like to see more Eagle
Scouts in government, and society at large. PS. Scouts Canada did
all of this many years ago, without all the fanfare and politics we see here in
the United States. It's about time the BSA catch up. Perhaps it is time
they change their name to simply "American Scouting."
In all seriousness, I can envision PC-obsessed, liberal women getting involved
in this who will not be satisfied until they are IN CHARGE. Nothing less will
do or they will sue. Girls will be given top priority and the boys "dumbed
down" like they are in many aspect of U.S. society these days. This will
become an indoctrination vehicle like most of our liberal colleges and
universities.This action by BSA is sickening to me and I fear for my
nine young grandsons. I will not be contributing to Friends of Scouting again.
Well, the Girls Scouts today have called it 'poaching' on their
turf.The article here said it 'strained' the relationship
between the two groups.They are trying to be nice but it is a whole lot
more than 'strained'.And Boy Scouts/leaders and former
Boy Scouts/former leaders are lamenting the good old days of 'Follow Me
Boys' Scouting are for the most part done... first LGBT issues, and now
this. Except in the LDS Church. Have heard a few
non-members are now considering sending their boys to LDS cub packs and scout
troops. Because "regardless that we have some issues with the Mormon's
doctrine, they appear to be the only ones with the guts to stand up to the BSA
national leadership, not cave on every little thing, and do Scouting as it was
meant to be."
So now it's the anything goes scouts of America.
In High School in So Cali back in the 80's I wanted to play volleyball, but
my school only had a women's team. The school banned volleyball during PE
because women were getting hurt. The law just passed requiring schools to accept
those of the opposite sex to participate w/ the opposite sex if there was no
equivalent team for the sex. As a resistant hearted youth I wanted to challenge
the school's policy w/ the newly passed law, only to get shut down by my
mom. @ College they still didn't have a men's volleyball team, but
they had a club, where both men & women played together. The College tried
to start a volleyball team, but the prospective coach turned down the offer
because having men & women playing together created inner competition rather
than teamwork. I & a few others who had practiced daily @ the women's
dorms, also didn't like the competitive atmosphere & formed our own
intramural team & swept the College's intramural competition, which
included a team consisting of the remaining club members who took 3rd behind the
#1 ranked mixed sex Polynesian team. So are the Boy Scouts in desperate need for
new admissions w/ the LDS Church leaving? There's already a Girl Scouts.
I donated $1 to Friends of Scouting. I will support scouting (grudgingly) as
long as the Brethren keep it in the Church. Nevertheless, the day is inevitably
coming when the LDS Church and BSA will sever ties.
I wonder how unanimous it really was. BSA conducted
presentations/surveys on the issue to councils but handpicked who they invited.
In the Grand Canyon Council (most of AZ) they did not invite any members from
LDS units. And of course the survey only went to the presentation participants.
And they are reporting the survey overwhelmingly supported the change. Sure, it
was unanimous of all those who voted. Kind of like when BSA voted to allow
homosexual leaders - when LDS members weren't in attendance. Even
then,the BSA national organization disguised the discussion by calling it
"family" scouting when it really means coed. We had "family"
scouting before BSA decided to incorporate girls into the Cub and Boy Scouts and
then it didn't mean coed. It is being touted as separate dens, but
that's not likely to be what's implemented. Most units struggle to
find leadership now without doubling the number of dens. And there's no way
BSA will get away with having male and female Scout patrols politically.
It won't affect LDS units directly, but it will affect things we share with
the community units - specifically camps, etc.
So in 3-4 years, add Scouting to the list outside distractions that causes young
men to skip Wednesday night meetings because the Church refuses to do it, like
sports, choir, theatre, homework, etc.
Are boys allowed in Girls Scouts too? Their cookies are a heck of a lot better
than that stupid popcorn sold by cubs sell. I bet not. The double standards will
not allow that. I think the LDS church made a mistake. They should have left
entirely instead of leaving in the younger lads. Now it will look like worse
since they delayed the inevitable. Besides the new YM program is 10X better.
BTW, I am an Eagle Scout and so is my son.
@FT - salt lake city, UT - Girls already go to National Jamborees. Girls 14 and
older can already be scouts, have been able to for a number of years.
Here's the thing, the scouting programs in literally the rest of the world
are co-ed. This includes scouts and leaders. I understand why the
church chooses to keep to the norm, and I accept that, but when I was a young
girl, I was a lot more interested in outdoor adventures and building stuff than
I was in painting picture frames (I think I could literally build a house out of
all the picture frames I had by the time I finished young women's) I'm
not saying that young women's and the personal progress program wasn't
helpful in turning me into the person I am today, it was, but I would have
appreciated the opportunity (even if just an extra curricular activity, not
affiliated with the church) to improve my skills in the things that actually
interested me and would later turn into my career. Plus, in light of
all the current sexual harassment allegations I think it would be helpful for
boys to work beside girls in constructive activities, and to see and to work
with women in leadership roles.
Equality? It's getting ridiculous.
You folks do all know that coed units have existed within the BSA for many
years, right? Venturing/Explorer programs (age 14-20) have the option of being
coed, and have for years. Also, if you go to a Scout camp, you may notice that
a significant chunk of the female staffers are, you guessed it, female. I know, females are a stain upon the honor of Boy Scouts, and should
stay at home knitting, but apparently the BSA hasn't thought so for
Yessss!!!!! We'll be out soon!!!!!!
I think having the BSA sponsor groups that the LDS church doesnt join in with
(Gay groups or girl in troops) is fine. However, it should be the choice of the
BSA. If they were set up as a religious group I dont see why the courts can
compell them to sponsor issues that are against their core belief and mission.
Would like to see Religious Liberty gain an even standing with Political
Correctness and Gay rights groups etc.
In the past, I've been a Boy Scout and a Scout Leader. I have always loved
scouting. I have contributed monetary and time support to the program every
year for the last fifty years. This year will be the first year I don't.
The Boy Scouts of America have a right to run their programs anyway they want
to, but I will no longer be a part of it. The current national leaders have
destroyed the Boy Scouts of America, as far as I am concerned.
The continued blurring of gender...as if gender specific "anything" is
re:LDS Liberal...oh and you forgot one. Boys and Girls now share the
same bathrooms since gender is being eliminated from liberal-land. Soon you will
be "forced" to pick from a list of gender-less names for
your...em...kids as well. Any obvious name which reflects the traditional past
will be met with the most severe of consequences. Also watch out for the
"white supremacist'" names as well...names like David or Tommy
etc... Of course Donald is the worst of all. Those too will be monitored. And
on down the slippery slope we go.... BSA is headed for extinction
very soon! Watch and see. Just like the bogus NFL flag trashing, the regular
folks just say NO!
Are they going to rename it "Knot Tying for Kids?"
by the way, can boys join Girl Scouts Of America and if not -- why?
@ LDS Liberal"Good, wholesome morals principles are gender
neutral.This is no longer the 1800's with separate boarding schools
by gender."Ummmmm....yes, we do have "separate boarding
schools by gender." A simple 10 second Google search will turn up dozens and
dozens of them. Believe it or not, boys and girls are different. No
matter how hard you try and convince people that we're all "gender
neutral," we're still different and there's not a thing you can do
about it. Apples are different than oranges. Forks are different
than spoons. Fords are different than Chevy's. And boys are different than
girls. As a card-carrying liberal, you tout diversity, yet you try a
lump together even the most basic difference between people, regardless of race
creed or color - gender. And the $64,000 question would have to be, why?
It's weird to me that so many people are upset with this move based on
their belief in the LDS Church. At the same time, said church has multiple
members on the board. The board voted unanimously for the change. Either you
follow LDS leadership or you don't. If you don't trust their
judgement, why are you a member? If you're not a member, on what basis are
you upset on that church's behalf?
The timing of the announcement is interesting... just days after their annual
Friends of Scouting fund drive ends.
I have concerns about the direction the BSA is taking. I expect most of those
expressing concerns have been heavily involved in Scouting.I suspect
most of those here cheering this decision have not been so involved and that the
changes in the BSA won't change that.And on the national scale,
I think that is really the demise of Scouting. They have abandoned the
practices that made them the youth activity of choice for so many with
traditional moral values. But their changes won't ever be sufficient to
appease those whose values don't align.That all said, several
times a year I raise my hand to sustain 15 men as prophets, seers, and
revelators. If I don't follow through with action, even and especially
when prophetic decisions seem to run counter to what I might have chosen, then
my support and sustaining is pretty shallow. So long as the LDS
Church in America uses the BSA as the male youth activity, as long as my Bishop
asks me to support Friends of Scouting, I intend to lend my support, weak and
imperfect as it may be.Ditto when the church stakes out a position
on immigration, guns, the proper definition of marriage, or anything else.
Thank Heaven for prophets.
I bet this could make for some interesting campouts...
For those of you saying that this is for politically correctness, they will be
separate programs, and the girls program will attract the people who are tire of
the Girls Scouts politically correctness. If we are lucky the Girl Scouts will
develop a boys program and take all of the politically correct people and then
they will stop coming up with lawsuits ageist the BSA for everything.
As a father of a girl I certainly would not be comfortable sending her to a
National Jamboree and having our current POTUS use the platform for one of his
crude, political rallies.
Unfortunately our ward already had the good ole "friends of scouting"
drive and I contributed as in years past. However, the Boy Scouts program keeps
evolving in directions that I am feeling less comfortable with. When the
friends of scouting drive comes around next year I will really have to wrestle
with the idea of continuing to contribute. At this point I'm about done
with the "former" good Boy Scouts of America program that is now being
corrupted by many influences.
Who cares? The Boy Scouts are dead. They are alive in name only. None of my kids
are interested in scouting because they are ashamed to let their friends and
prospective girlfriends know they are affilated with scouting. The Mormon Church
needs to stick with relevant programs that will turn out missionary ready youth.
The Genderless Scouts just don't meet kids needs anymore. I'm glad my
kids have to worry about this issue and not me.
Adg or activity day girls is financed at 50% the level of boys cub scouts with
half the activities 2x/mo as compared to weekly for boys. No girls badges, no
arrow of light, no award ceremonies , and no cub camp financing. The church
system for the girls is not equal and this needs to change.
I’d be ashamed to be associated with any organization that can’t
comprehend the meaning of its own name.
BSA likely sees the writing on the wall that funding from the LDS church may
disappear completely within a few years. Scouting will need new revenue
streams. Their best option... increasing potential members by 100%.
8-11 is an age where the boys would rather be around other boys; and girls
around other girls. So I am not sure how many girls would want to join cub
scouts. They do not go camping so I do not see problems with combining the two
other than I would not want to be the leader.
I swear I saw this when it was an episode of the Brady bunch.
I have my hunch that this has something to do with the law suite going on here
in CT which the outcome was likely to require this. Basically the Girls Scout
Gold reward does not look as good and is not as well known as the Boy Scout
Eagle. The plaintiff is calming discrimination and that is is a Title IX issue
because it effects college admissions and getting a job. Several lawyers I have
talked to at local Scouting events say that the plaintiff could easily win the
lawsuit. The Boy Scouts in England were forced to admit girls
after a similar lawsuit, whale Girl Guides were not forced to admit Boys in a
lawsuit. I notice that the Boy Scout aged girls will have a
separate program and boys and girls will be in separate troops, so I don't
see this as a major policy change and it prevents a lot of turmoil for the
BSA.Girls Scouts USA should have steeped up a long time ago and went
back to the program that girls wanted based on the same values as the BSA which
it had in the 70s and 80s. I can't tell you how many times I have herd one
of my scouts sisters say "Why can't we do that in girl scouts?".
The name of their organization “Boy Scouts” doesn’t even make
sense anymore. Enough said.
Many don't know it, but those funds you donate to Friends of Scouting
don't actually go to help the boys themselves. They are used to pay the
high salaries of the scout executives who make decisions like this one. So while
your local scout master is shivering in a tent with the scout troop and not
getting paid a dime to do so; some executive is making way more than you or I to
make boneheaded decisions that kowtow to the PC crowd. My donations have gotten
smaller and smaller, until this year I passed altogether.I am glad
that I was a Boy Scout and that my sons also had the opportunity, but it is a
shell of what it used to be. I seriously doubt that I will have any grandsons in
This will be a turf war between BSA and Girl Scouts of America (GSA). Feminism
is pushing the idea that girls can do anything boys can do, and consequently, I
think BSA will win the turf war. GSA and BSA would be better off financially by
merging. But, I think politics and pride will interfere. GSA seems more
liberal. BSA more conservative. So, merger not likely to happen in the near
future.The LDS Church is staying out of this fight by sticking with
Activity Days and Personal Progress for girls. But, it is interesting that the
LDS Church pullout of young men 14 to 17 years from BSA was the catalyst. BSA
needs to find more money.
For future application of BSA Programs in the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day-Saints, we should all hold on, take a deep breath, and leave those
decisions to Church leadership. No need to criticize or tell those who know
best what should be done. In the past BSA has allowed the Church to adapt
programs to LDS purposes, if scouting accomplishes that in the future the
partnership may continue, if not it may be dissolved. The values and ideals of
Scouting have been consistent with those of the Church. But know that the LDS
Church has been in Scouting not just for LDS young men but for young men of all
faiths. To those who contend “we have Duty to God and do
not need scouting” there is a lack of understand of the Duty to God
effort. Just recently I heard Brother Holmes, of the Young Men’s General
Presidency, say “Duty to God is not, cannot, be a substitute for
When will the BSA change their name, they no longer focus on one gender. We now
live in a world where there's 20+ and growing. Will they become non binary
scouts, gender fluid scouts, androgyne scouts?
So will our "Boy Scout" troop now need to start to sell cookies? There is a place for Boys and Girls. I have had kids in both scouting
organizations. I understand equality but there are differences that need to be
addressed. Equal yes, Same no.In less than 10 years I see the
scouting organization imploding. Sad as I loved the Boy Scouts and was proud to
be one as a boy and as a leader.
...and?...what.Good, wholesome morals principles are gender
neutral.This is no longer the 1800's with separate boarding
schools by gender.Girls learn about sewing and cooking, and Boys
learn about saddle making and cart repair.Seez, ...then we
wonder and complain why girls are not going into Science, Technology,
Engineering and Math....
More politically correct liberal crapolla. I thank God my kids are all grown up.
I couldn't imagine trying to raise a child in the current social
environment. That being said, don't we have organizations for
girls? I mean, they created the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for boys and the
Brownies and Girl Scouts for girls, didn't they? So, what's the point
besides the left-wing, PC gender-benders imposing their will on the American
people? We need to wake up here, folks.
@QuickRick - They did include the response in the article:"The
Activity Days and Personal Progress programs of the church have long been in
place to meet the needs of girls and young women in these age groups, and no
change will be made in church programs," said LDS Church spokesman Eric
Hawkins. "We recognize that the desire of the BSA is to expand their
programs to serve more young people in the United States. The church, too,
continues to look at ways to serve the needs of our youth worldwide."
I don't have a problem with youth programs that include both boys and girls
(our schools do it), however, I'm also fine with programs just for one
gender or the other. There's benefits to both. If the BSA wants
to have programs for girls that's OK with me--I think my little girls would
love cub scouts too. But, I'd like to see them maintain some programs that
just focus on the issues boys face as they grow and prepare them to be great
men. Boys need specific programs for them to help them learn to deal with the
challenges of life. Our prisons indicate we need to do more. So,
I'll withhold judgment on this until I see how it's implemented.
Baby Snowflakes of AmericaThe pc police are at work on an institution the
Baden Powell built. It is all about $$$$ and corporate welfare. They are the
ones dangling the carrot for the BSA to follow. Maybe the LDS Church will
finally wake up and quit being a CASH COW for the overpaid BSA executives.
The article states: "'The Activity Days and Personal Progress programs
of the church have long been in place to meet the needs of girls and young women
in these age groups, and no change will be made in church programs,' said
LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins."If the Activity Days for
Girls program meets the needs of the LDS 8 to 11YO girls, and the Personal
Progress program meets the needs of the LDS 12 to 18YO young women and work
well, then why doesn't the LDS Church perceive the Activity Days for Boys
and Duty to God programs don't meet the needs of the LDS 8 to 11YO boys and
the LDS 12 to 18YO young men in the United States and Canada? These LDS
programs meet the needs of the other LDS boys/young men in other parts of the
world. Why is there an ongoing disparity in the perception of the
"needs" of the LDS boys/young men in the United States and Canada?This inconsistency across the world in LDS congregations, and between
the boys/young men and girls/young women in the U.S. and Canada makes no sense.
I have volunteer to help with our local Friends of Scouting fund raiser each
year, and have noticed resistance to it from my neighbors as time has passed.
Next year will be the first time I don't donation.Robert
Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, Founder of the Boy Scouts, would be disgusted
with the destruction of this once fine organization to help boys.
They're going to allow girls to be cub scouts? Clearly a sign of the
apocalypse. If we start letting girls participate in the same
programs available to boys, next thing you know they'll be agitating for
the right to vote, drive, and own property.
Lord Baden Powell had a vision, to provide leadership training and experience
opportunities to boys, by starting the Boy Scouts. He also started the Girl
Guides, to address the concerns of girls. The opportunities and experiences
needed buy both genders to exist as productive members of adult society overlap,
but are not identical, hence the two organizations.Watering down the
program is an inevitable result of a gender merger in Scouting, and will not
benefit boys or girls more that the current programs. I see a value reduction
in my Eagle Scout medal, all for political correctness.
Probably a wise move by the Boy Scouts. Still leave the local option, yet
recognize that Scouting principles are universal.
So if the title of the article said :...LDS Church Responds", what was the
response? Why put that in the title if the article doesn't even mention
it?I wonder if they are going to change the name of the
How exactly does this change how the Church does Scouting? (Hint - it
doesn't.)The reality, though, is that Scouting has increasing
little influence on how many Mormon boys go on missions, and that's the
reality the Church is dealing with.
anyone feel more compelled now to contribute to Friends of Scouting? You can see
where this is headed. In less than 5 years it won't be Boy Scouts of
America anymore -- just Scouts of America and you won't be allowed to refer
to a scout as a boy or girl nor will you be allowed to have gender specific
bathrooms but instead there will be one bathroom that all share. Yes BSA is
rotting on the vine and political correctness is to blame. Thankfully in any
Christian church you can just say NO to scouting.
Unanimous? By the Boy Scout Board of Directors? That implies a lot
of quiet background work and lobbying by those who wanted this.What
LDS leaders are on the Board?Will it now be "Scouts of
America" instead of "Boy Scouts of America?" Lot's of interesting questions.
If it's called Boy Scouts, the name seems totally weird to me. How can it
be called such if there are girls in it?
It will now be known as the sunshine scouts of America. Hopefully the church
continues to implement their own program that meets the needs of its membership
rather than relying on the BSA (or SSA) to build a framework around.
Interesting decision by the "Boy" Scouts of America. Seriously, at this
point they need to change their name, since they are no longer interested in
providing a program for boys.
Yet another step down the road for the "boy" scouts towards political
correctness. It is sad to see what this once great organization has become.
Thankfully I haven't been hit up for my friends of scouting donation
yet.... I think I'll pass on that this year.
The time has come for a complete break from the Boy Scouts of America. What
actions dose BSA have to take for the LDS church to realize they just are not
the same organization of the past. We have to start our own program now, not
later. Why do we continue to expose our young boys to this outside program, that
no longer has shared values with the Church.
Ummm .... wut?