Boy Scouts, Cubs to add girls; LDS Church says no change to its programs, plans

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  • WhateverWorks Las Vegas, NV
    Oct. 18, 2017 3:46 p.m.

    I cannot fathom how this announcement is offensive to anyone.

    The truth remains that LDS youth programing for boys and girls ages 8-12 are completely unequal. It does not matter to me whether the LDS church continues to partner with BSA (my son can always go to a community troop outside of church). It matters VERY MUCH that the church does not invest in my daughter at the same level as it invests in boys her own age. The message is clear to every young girl when she sees what her brothers are doing in scouts.

    So, we are a Girl Scouts family. It should be notes that the Girl Scouts are not angry about this change in BSA. They recognize that many young women asserted their leadership skills to accomplish this change and honor that leadership. The Girl Scouts simply asserts that it has always been about helping young women become leaders in their communities.

  • stk Marshfield, WI
    Oct. 15, 2017 4:37 p.m.

    Maybe the boyscouts will add a badge in rape culture, just like the girl scouts. Maybe they will work with the food banks and diaper banks and do projects for the batter women's shelter. Our girl scouts teach financial literacy as poverty has a female face and women need to know these facts of life. Financial literacy is important to boys as well. I do hope the boy scouts become more progressive and less theocratic.

  • Chancey Sandy, UT
    Oct. 14, 2017 5:21 p.m.

    When organizations fail to meet the needs of those who support them they become extinct: BSA, NFL, Hollywood, The Democrats, The Republicans, etc. It may not be the road to Hell, but the road to failure that is paved with good intentions -- well, maybe both. Perhaps all these have reached the zenith of their popularity.

  • MoreMan San Diego, CA
    Oct. 14, 2017 11:00 a.m.

    Wouldn't the animosity towards the mixing of the genders sort of preclude the whole marriage thing?

  • Millenial Snow Sandy, UT
    Oct. 13, 2017 12:11 p.m.

    Wow some of these comments are really insane.

    I know growing up in my ward the discrepancy between the YW and YM budgets made me feel like a second rate citizen and I look forward to a separation of the church and the scouts.

    The members need to realize that the Boy Scouts is not around to do their bidding. They are opening up to a world that has progressed from the "Boys like to camp, girls like to cook" mentality.

  • C Butcher Provo, UT
    Oct. 13, 2017 7:38 a.m.

    This is nothing new. I was a Medical Explorer Scout in the 70's, I was 15 yrs old and female. I still have my BSA membership card from then!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Oct. 13, 2017 7:19 a.m.

    Shame on you liberal progressives for destroying yet another great institution.

    Time for the LDS Church to move on.
    The Church has the camps, resources and infrastructure to go their own way.

    Enough with Gender Neutrality.

    Liberal Social Engineers, showing once again, that they really don't believe in Diversity at all.

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    Oct. 13, 2017 7:00 a.m.

    This is what ABC television said about the Girl Scouts reaction: "The Boy Scouts' house is on fire," Girl Scouts told ABC News in a statement today. "Instead of addressing systemic issues of continuing sexual assault, financial mismanagement and deficient programming, BSA's senior management wants to add an accelerant to the house fire by recruiting girls." Enough said. Maybe the PC Deseret New will eventually print this report??????

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Oct. 13, 2017 1:33 a.m.

    Hmm? What will the United States of America look like in fifty years?

  • philfish Orem, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 9:49 p.m.

    The B.S.A have wanted to expand their base to include females since around 1972 or so. Woman have been leaders and Venture and Explorers members for decades. Young woman have served as camp staff members since around 1986 or so. The B.S.A is one of only a handful of scouting organizations around the world that aren't co-ed. This action will address that. The scouts will be around for a long time, the world isn't coming to an end.

  • Richie Saint George, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 8:33 p.m.

    As a long time scouter and former Scout Master with wood badge credentials I will follow my LDS church leaders but without enthusiasm or money.

  • Michael2011 Bigfork, MT
    Oct. 12, 2017 7:59 p.m.

    Testimony: The very best scoutmasters and troops never die, they only fade away.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Oct. 12, 2017 3:54 p.m.

    This is a play for the sinking BSA to become relevant again in society at the expense of the Girl Scouts organization. Those of us who think this is not a good (or needed) idea are encouraged to support the Girl Scouts and the excellent work they do.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Oct. 12, 2017 3:48 p.m.

    The infestation of liberal values are driving this country into a downward decaying spiral. History repeats itself and the Boy Scouts have become a major disappointment.

  • LDSAZ Casa Grande, AZ
    Oct. 12, 2017 3:12 p.m.

    I will continue to follow the prophet. No other question need be asked by me.

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 2:46 p.m.

    To Cactus Pete:

    Friends of Scouting funds are used to support local efforts, including council sponsored summer camps, training, scout office support staff, etc., so the argument that you have been betrayed is a false narrative. Very little if anything at the local unit level in Utah has changed. Nothing. And the needs haven't changed either.

    I will give time and $ to scouting because it is good for young men.

  • Cactus Pete Centerville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 1:28 p.m.

    @65TossPowerTrap - Salmon, ID
    The perception of members of the LDS Church about the Boy Scouts began to change when the leadership of that organization caved in to political pressures. As a long time scouter I started seeing it as I helped with the yearly Friends of Scouting campaigns. The attitude of the typical member has gone from "less interested" to "downright hostle".

    They feel betrayed. I agree with them and this was the last year that I will participate in that fund raising campaign.

  • wall71121 Taylorsville, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 1:15 p.m.

    The BSA has completely lost their way.
    That whirring sound you hear is Baden Powell spinning in his grave.
    The Church has already announced that it will DUMP the Varsity/Venture/Explorer programs.
    It's time to take the final step of filing for divorce from the BSA.
    The only reason Scouting works at all is the dedicated service of UNPAID local scout leaders.
    Those leaders will still exist WITHOUT the BSA.
    We don't need a bloated, national, PC organization on top of that.
    We can teach our boys "scout-like" principles within our own organization.
    And as an added benefit, we can end the annual "begging" exercise of Friends of Scouting.
    I've made my LAST donation to that fund!

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 12:51 p.m.

    Maxter,

    I saw a report a few years ago that claimed the national head of the Boy Scouts earned more than a million dollars per year and that several executives in some of the local councils made more than $200K per year.

    If true, that is a lot of money for those who live on a fraction of that amount and for an organization that relies on donations and has an army of volunteers doing lots of unpaid work. The money to pay salaries definitely comes out of the FOS donations. I am not privy to the actual information, but I would not be surprised if 90% of the funds were used in that way.

    The Boy Scouts are free to open the books and calm donor's fears if they are unfounded, but I doubt they want everyone to know the real story.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 12:47 p.m.

    so girls are now allowed to become eagles which means they earn camping merit badges which means girls are on camps withs boys which means men leaders are with your daughters in the deep woods? Or are there female leaders with your boys in the deep woods?This has sexual abuse potential written all over it.Also what about a 16 year old boy and girl ...alone...in the deep woods? I think this is cystal clear why you shouldn't support BSA anymore. This organization is being run now by left wing activists. Common sense not allowed.

  • INTELLECTUAL Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 12:38 p.m.

    The new policy to allow girls to participate in scouting is a deliberate attempt to sexualize the youth of America at a very young age. This is evil, and I am glad I won't be involved in any way.

    Remember what the Savior taught about harming young children.

  • well informed Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 12:31 p.m.

    I wonder how long it will be until a teenage girl gets pregnant at scout camp.

  • bachelors of science Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 12:22 p.m.

    Our young men in the church deserve better.

    The Holy Priesthood in all its righteousness deserves better.

    And we as members of the church can certainly do better than the Boy Scouts.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Oct. 12, 2017 12:03 p.m.

    Raise your hand if you had a woman lead one of your boys in Cub Scouts. Yeah - that's what I thought. You realize, of course, that Cub Scouts and 11-year-old Boy Scouts are under the supervision of the Primary President, right? You realize that co-ed troops have existed in BSA for decades, right? If so, what in the world is your problem? Nobody is saying that your 12-year-old boy has to share a tent with a 12-year-old girl, so what is your problem? When it comes to Boy Scouts and Mormons, I am astounded with the irrationality of some members of my faith.

  • Unclefred Ticonderoga, NY
    Oct. 12, 2017 11:30 a.m.

    Ok, as a member of the LDS church this confirms my desire to disassociate myself from the BSA. As the father of two Eagles and a former scoutmaster, I'm disappointed that the value of boys having Men models is being diminished. As has been stated repeatedly here, boy and girls are different. They think differently, they have different development needs. You are welcome to disagree with that statement, but a lifetime of experience convinces me it's true. Memo to the BSA board, "If you want a future with enough soldiers, emt's, firemen, FBI agents and policemen in it, don't destroy the BSA."

  • carman Wasatch Front, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 11:02 a.m.

    I gladly give my time to our scout program and the boys. I gladly give to Friends of Scouting.

    It's the boys that matter. I've seen it make a big difference in the lives of young men. All of the pro and con agendas are near meaningless. We are heading off to a great outdoor adventure this weekend where boys will learn leadership skills, outdoor skills, enjoy the great outdoors and get to spend time with wonderful mentors and priesthood leaders. All the rest is just a distraction. Enjoy the debate, it hardly matters.

  • Maxter Lehi, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 10:58 a.m.

    @ JoeCapitalist2 - You are correct that Friends of Scouting donations do not directly go to local units, BUT they also don't go to National BSA, they stay with the local council. And there a no big executive salaries at the council level. Councils use this money to help acquire, build and maintain camp properties and equipment, liability insurance, adult training, district activities, pay for council staff that help with chartering and registration, etc.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 10:14 a.m.

    I see the girls scouts are upset by this announcement. Sometimes no matter what you do it is the wrong thing

  • cthulhu_fhtagn Seattle, WA
    Oct. 12, 2017 10:09 a.m.

    Aaaaaaaaaaaand the outgoing generation goes wild.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Oct. 12, 2017 9:58 a.m.

    Thank you Aggie238. I thought I was the only one who knew that the BSA already had co-ed scout troops for the older scouts. Some people are not only irrational - they are also uninformed.

  • 65TossPowerTrap Salmon, ID
    Oct. 12, 2017 9:46 a.m.

    I hate to break this to the scout haters that share my religion, but girls can already belong to the Boy Scouts of America. It's called Venture Scouts - ages 14 -20. Let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 9:16 a.m.

    @Oatmeal - Woods Cross Utah:

    Sir, I couldn't disagree more with your characterization of "Where did the idea that teens have to be separated by gender in LDS Church youth programs come from?"

    The "idea" for separate program in the Church comes from the inspired leadership of generations of church leaders who recognized the value in having different programs for girls and boys. After all the Proclamation on the Family makes it clear that there are differences in genders and role differentiation.

    Wow, there is a lot of confusion in the minds of many church members as they struggle to navigate in this new PC world that is emerging. Thank you Elder Oaks for providing some clarity in general conference to help the confused members with their struggles.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 9:12 a.m.

    Boys need to have the opportunity to be boys and associate with boys without girls around.

    Girls need to have the opportunity to be girls and associate with girls without boys around.

    Later in life there is enough mixing at appropriate times.

  • Jacobiuntherus Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 9:07 a.m.

    "Reflectere" said: "So this is a natural evolution within the program. The dens and units will still be gender specific, so I don't see this as a major upheaval of the BSA program".

    Yeah, just a requirement to double the number of leaders so that you can run both gender cub dens.

    More unisexification of society. Pretty soon both men and women will dress alike, act alike and even marry within their own sex (oh, I forgot, they already do that).

  • Justiciaparatodos Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 8:55 a.m.

    @Lilly Munster

    You asserted: "Suggest that young men and women work together, study together, learn to get along and nurture each other from a very young age, and you bring out all the suspicions, myths and fears that already plague the relationships between men and women as adults.
    There have been a lot of very negative and misogynistic reactions to this idea.
    We trust women to raise our children, do all the hard work of holding family, church and community together, but don't ever suggest that we inflict young women on young men's private clubs".

    Wrong. Many of us simply would posit that this may just be one more effort to "uni-sex" everything including no differentiation between life roles of women and men. Many citizens believe there are divinely created differences in the roles of men and women and that it is perfectly okay to have some differences.

    Moreover, does this mean that the LDS Church must call additional Cub Scout leaders so they can have "boy's dens" and "girl's dens"? Good luck with that as many wards are already stretched to the breaking point attempting to staff all these callings and positions!

  • Red Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 8:43 a.m.

    As I continue to motivate my boys to finish their Eagle nonsense like this only makes it harder.

    Poor Scouting Leadership and trying to satisfy everyone instead of just Standing tall and noble will lead to the downfall of scouting.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 8:40 a.m.

    Men are from Mars; Women are from Venus. It is true that boys and girls, men and women, need to learn to get along. But, sometimes, they need to have their own spaces. Women together; girls together and men together; boys together. Helps all of them retain their sanity. And I'm sure the Girl Scouts of America has a great program.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 8:24 a.m.

    I am confused by the current conversation regarding gender. Where did the idea that teens have to be separated by gender in LDS Church youth programs come from? I can't find such a sentiment in the teachings of Jesus Christ or even of Joseph Smith. Yeah, I get the whole males/priesthood ordination thing, but its not like the genders are taught different things religiously, or that the genders really enjoy different activities these days. The best church youth activities I have seen have included both YM and YW participants.

    When my wife was YW's president, she took the girls shooting and taught them how to fish. They hiked and camped. The YM leaders were actually jealous! They felt threatened. That is what the ideas of girls in Scouting does. It removes the gender-specific label and allows girls access to the Scouting resources. The YW's budget was much smaller than the YM's in that ward once you factored in the Scouting budget. I think that is the real reason behind people's irritation. Funding the YW and providing similar outdoor activities is the metaphorical "elephant in the living room" on this issue.

  • Thid Barker Victor, ID
    Oct. 12, 2017 7:45 a.m.

    We already have the Girl Scouts of America! As a life long financial supporter of both the Girl Scouts of America and the BSA, my money will now go elsewhere!

  • windsor City, Ut
    Oct. 12, 2017 6:13 a.m.

    From article: Michael Surbaugh, the BSA's chief Scout executive "The values of Scouting — trustworthy, loyal, helpful, kind, brave and reverent, for example — are important for both young men and women"

    So apparently not important for young women-- until suddenly they had this idea.....

    And now that they've figured this out, it is the perfect excuse for them to magnanimously do something about it.

    (Or was that line just some smooth PC female-affirming spin-- while what they actually were thinking is they hope this move will increase their slumping numbers and declining revenue??)

  • Aussie Teacher WESTON, VT
    Oct. 12, 2017 5:50 a.m.

    There have been mixed boys and girls in the Scouting movement in Australia for years and the world hasn't ended yet! In fact Scouting has been invigorated by the inclusion of girls. The girls who don't want to be in Scouts can still join the Girl Guides if they wish.
    For the people using Lord Baden-Powell's name, his grandson, who lives in Australia, has no problem with the girls being members of Scouts.

  • Lilly Munster , 00
    Oct. 12, 2017 5:12 a.m.

    Suggest that young men and women work together, study together, learn to get along and nurture each other from a very young age, and you bring out all the suspicions, myths and fears that already plague the relationships between men and women as adults.
    There have been a lot of very negative and misogynistic reactions to this idea.
    We trust women to raise our children, do all the hard work of holding family, church and community together, but don't ever suggest that we inflict young women on young men's private clubs.

  • common sense in Idaho Pocatello, id
    Oct. 12, 2017 4:32 a.m.

    Wow. What comments. As a current cub scout leader whenever we have a monthly pack meeting we always have an activity and everyone joins in, cub scouts, siblings(male and female), and parents. We just want all, and I do mean all, the children attending to have a good time.

    We do fun activities and what's presented is designed to benefit all attending. Male or Female makes no difference to me as the leader.

    Having said that we do not officially register girls for cub scouts and the church has already said that won't change. So cub scouts still works under the church's guidelines. It's still a good program designed to help 8-11 young boys as they grow to young manhood. But at least in the cub pack I run all youth attending pack meetings benefit from what we do, both boys and girls.

    I also share many of your concerns about decisions made at the national level. But it's also my opinion that pulling your support (financial or volunteering in the program) from scouting because of decisions made at a national level just hurts the kids. Remember, scouting is all about the kids.

  • JustAnOp Everett, WA
    Oct. 12, 2017 1:26 a.m.

    The Mormon Church, I believe, adopted the Boy Scouting Program as a complimentary auxillary organization to it Priesthood programs. Aiming at building well rounded and honorable young men. It has served the Church well and turned out thousands of great men. Sad that Boy Scout Council's initiated the organizations self destruction years ago by adopting PC demands. This is just another of the many signs of the times in the decline of a formally outstanding program, So long Boy Scouts, enjoyed the good old days. Time to develop new program. Hope those new 'Scout' recruits can build the retirement funds the Council's Leaders are so focused on building.

  • Reflectere Utah, UT
    Oct. 12, 2017 1:00 a.m.

    Most of the Cub Scout leaders I've ever known have been women, so having girls in Cub Scouts isn't very shocking. BSA has discussed starting a program for girls for a long time. Girls have been part of BSA for decades through Explorer, Varsity, and Venture scouting. So this is a natural evolution within the program. The dens and units will still be gender specific, so I don't see this as a major upheaval of the BSA program.

  • Holy-Schamoly-What Baloney Kaysville, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 10:33 p.m.

    Look, just CHANGE THE NAME to "Scouts of America" and get rid of the term "BOY" because it no longer matters how you are made or built, what is masculine or manly or any of that; it's all about PC and not offending anyone ever about anything ever and letting everyone be a member forever so the original concept will never be realized as it has changed forever.

    Or rename it PC SCOUTS.

    BTW, I've supported them financially for years...so now I have a few extra dollars for something else that will be a better fit for my money.

  • Just saying 7 Indianapolis, IN
    Oct. 11, 2017 10:18 p.m.

    All BSA is doing is saying girls' organizations are inferior to male organzations. Girl scouts already exists but no, it is not 'good enough' because boys have Eagle Scouts which make them superior. There is indeed a need for girls to lead, learn, grow in a female environment away from the bullying and domination of boys. Girl scouts provided that space but BSA undermining GSA membership and organization and is yet again forcing girls to cave to male model as though superior. Kind of sexist of BSA to undermine an existing girl's program with its long history and traditions as though BSA represented 'real' scouting.

  • John Pack Lambert of Michigan Ypsilanti, MI
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:25 p.m.

    Some of the "in this day and age everything is gender neutral language" claims are way overblown. There still are all male and all female schools in the US. In Detroit they have all male and all female public schools, something that would have been rejected 40 years ago.

    I have also taught at schools where starting in kindergarten the boys and girls were seperated for recess. These were public schools.

  • Go Big Blue!!! Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 8:25 p.m.

    Just gave my $200 to FOS last week and still proud of it.

  • TMR Los Angeles, CA
    Oct. 11, 2017 7:59 p.m.

    First positive news I have heard about a scouting organization for a long time.

  • Cheesecake Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 6:16 p.m.

    I find it sad and disappointing to see so many fellow Mormons preach about abandoning scouting, because they would prefer to deny other's participation, despite that participation having literally no impact on Mormons' ability to participate as we see fit. If scouting is intended to instill values like honesty, integrity, civil duty, service, volunteerism, etc... wouldn't we want anyone and everyone to participate? Surely we would prefer to spread goodness as far as we can? I sure would like to see more Eagle Scouts in government, and society at large.

    PS. Scouts Canada did all of this many years ago, without all the fanfare and politics we see here in the United States. It's about time the BSA catch up. Perhaps it is time they change their name to simply "American Scouting."

  • Oh, please! Saint George, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 5:56 p.m.

    In all seriousness, I can envision PC-obsessed, liberal women getting involved in this who will not be satisfied until they are IN CHARGE. Nothing less will do or they will sue. Girls will be given top priority and the boys "dumbed down" like they are in many aspect of U.S. society these days. This will become an indoctrination vehicle like most of our liberal colleges and universities.

    This action by BSA is sickening to me and I fear for my nine young grandsons. I will not be contributing to Friends of Scouting again. Ever....

  • Mayfair City, Ut
    Oct. 11, 2017 5:10 p.m.

    Well, the Girls Scouts today have called it 'poaching' on their turf.
    The article here said it 'strained' the relationship between the two groups.
    They are trying to be nice but it is a whole lot more than 'strained'.

    And Boy Scouts/leaders and former Boy Scouts/former leaders are lamenting the good old days of 'Follow Me Boys' Scouting are for the most part done... first LGBT issues, and now this.

    Except in the LDS Church.

    Have heard a few non-members are now considering sending their boys to LDS cub packs and scout troops. Because "regardless that we have some issues with the Mormon's doctrine, they appear to be the only ones with the guts to stand up to the BSA national leadership, not cave on every little thing, and do Scouting as it was meant to be."

  • Christmas South Jordan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 5:09 p.m.

    So now it's the anything goes scouts of America.

  • Egyptian origins Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 4:40 p.m.

    In High School in So Cali back in the 80's I wanted to play volleyball, but my school only had a women's team. The school banned volleyball during PE because women were getting hurt. The law just passed requiring schools to accept those of the opposite sex to participate w/ the opposite sex if there was no equivalent team for the sex. As a resistant hearted youth I wanted to challenge the school's policy w/ the newly passed law, only to get shut down by my mom. @ College they still didn't have a men's volleyball team, but they had a club, where both men & women played together. The College tried to start a volleyball team, but the prospective coach turned down the offer because having men & women playing together created inner competition rather than teamwork. I & a few others who had practiced daily @ the women's dorms, also didn't like the competitive atmosphere & formed our own intramural team & swept the College's intramural competition, which included a team consisting of the remaining club members who took 3rd behind the #1 ranked mixed sex Polynesian team. So are the Boy Scouts in desperate need for new admissions w/ the LDS Church leaving? There's already a Girl Scouts.

  • BradJames Manti, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 4:02 p.m.

    I donated $1 to Friends of Scouting. I will support scouting (grudgingly) as long as the Brethren keep it in the Church. Nevertheless, the day is inevitably coming when the LDS Church and BSA will sever ties.

  • RickChappell Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 11, 2017 4:00 p.m.

    I wonder how unanimous it really was.
    BSA conducted presentations/surveys on the issue to councils but handpicked who they invited. In the Grand Canyon Council (most of AZ) they did not invite any members from LDS units. And of course the survey only went to the presentation participants. And they are reporting the survey overwhelmingly supported the change. Sure, it was unanimous of all those who voted. Kind of like when BSA voted to allow homosexual leaders - when LDS members weren't in attendance.
    Even then,the BSA national organization disguised the discussion by calling it "family" scouting when it really means coed. We had "family" scouting before BSA decided to incorporate girls into the Cub and Boy Scouts and then it didn't mean coed.
    It is being touted as separate dens, but that's not likely to be what's implemented. Most units struggle to find leadership now without doubling the number of dens. And there's no way BSA will get away with having male and female Scout patrols politically.
    It won't affect LDS units directly, but it will affect things we share with the community units - specifically camps, etc.

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Oct. 11, 2017 3:40 p.m.

    So in 3-4 years, add Scouting to the list outside distractions that causes young men to skip Wednesday night meetings because the Church refuses to do it, like sports, choir, theatre, homework, etc.

  • DAWdarren Cedar Park, TX
    Oct. 11, 2017 3:28 p.m.

    Are boys allowed in Girls Scouts too? Their cookies are a heck of a lot better than that stupid popcorn sold by cubs sell. I bet not. The double standards will not allow that. I think the LDS church made a mistake. They should have left entirely instead of leaving in the younger lads. Now it will look like worse since they delayed the inevitable. Besides the new YM program is 10X better. BTW, I am an Eagle Scout and so is my son.

  • DudeDude Chicago, IL
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:57 p.m.

    @FT - salt lake city, UT - Girls already go to National Jamborees. Girls 14 and older can already be scouts, have been able to for a number of years.

  • raqueb Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:48 p.m.

    Here's the thing, the scouting programs in literally the rest of the world are co-ed. This includes scouts and leaders.

    I understand why the church chooses to keep to the norm, and I accept that, but when I was a young girl, I was a lot more interested in outdoor adventures and building stuff than I was in painting picture frames (I think I could literally build a house out of all the picture frames I had by the time I finished young women's) I'm not saying that young women's and the personal progress program wasn't helpful in turning me into the person I am today, it was, but I would have appreciated the opportunity (even if just an extra curricular activity, not affiliated with the church) to improve my skills in the things that actually interested me and would later turn into my career.

    Plus, in light of all the current sexual harassment allegations I think it would be helpful for boys to work beside girls in constructive activities, and to see and to work with women in leadership roles.

  • worf McAllen, TX
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:30 p.m.

    Equality? It's getting ridiculous.

  • Aggie238 Logan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:26 p.m.

    You folks do all know that coed units have existed within the BSA for many years, right? Venturing/Explorer programs (age 14-20) have the option of being coed, and have for years. Also, if you go to a Scout camp, you may notice that a significant chunk of the female staffers are, you guessed it, female.

    I know, females are a stain upon the honor of Boy Scouts, and should stay at home knitting, but apparently the BSA hasn't thought so for decades.

  • Slm0x Orem, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:21 p.m.

    Yessss!!!!! We'll be out soon!!!!!!

  • Back Talk Federal Way, WA
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:18 p.m.

    I think having the BSA sponsor groups that the LDS church doesnt join in with (Gay groups or girl in troops) is fine. However, it should be the choice of the BSA. If they were set up as a religious group I dont see why the courts can compell them to sponsor issues that are against their core belief and mission. Would like to see Religious Liberty gain an even standing with Political Correctness and Gay rights groups etc.

  • eigerjoe Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:11 p.m.

    In the past, I've been a Boy Scout and a Scout Leader. I have always loved scouting. I have contributed monetary and time support to the program every year for the last fifty years. This year will be the first year I don't. The Boy Scouts of America have a right to run their programs anyway they want to, but I will no longer be a part of it. The current national leaders have destroyed the Boy Scouts of America, as far as I am concerned.

  • USAlover Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 2:10 p.m.

    The continued blurring of gender...as if gender specific "anything" is evil.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:59 p.m.

    re:LDS Liberal

    ...oh and you forgot one. Boys and Girls now share the same bathrooms since gender is being eliminated from liberal-land. Soon you will be "forced" to pick from a list of gender-less names for your...em...kids as well. Any obvious name which reflects the traditional past will be met with the most severe of consequences. Also watch out for the "white supremacist'" names as well...names like David or Tommy etc... Of course Donald is the worst of all. Those too will be monitored. And on down the slippery slope we go....

    BSA is headed for extinction very soon! Watch and see. Just like the bogus NFL flag trashing, the regular folks just say NO!

  • Uncle Rico Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:49 p.m.

    Are they going to rename it "Knot Tying for Kids?"

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:46 p.m.

    by the way, can boys join Girl Scouts Of America and if not -- why?

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:44 p.m.

    @ LDS Liberal

    "Good, wholesome morals principles are gender neutral.
    This is no longer the 1800's with separate boarding schools by gender."

    Ummmmm....yes, we do have "separate boarding schools by gender." A simple 10 second Google search will turn up dozens and dozens of them.

    Believe it or not, boys and girls are different. No matter how hard you try and convince people that we're all "gender neutral," we're still different and there's not a thing you can do about it.

    Apples are different than oranges. Forks are different than spoons. Fords are different than Chevy's. And boys are different than girls.

    As a card-carrying liberal, you tout diversity, yet you try a lump together even the most basic difference between people, regardless of race creed or color - gender. And the $64,000 question would have to be, why?

  • OHBU Columbus, OH
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:43 p.m.

    It's weird to me that so many people are upset with this move based on their belief in the LDS Church. At the same time, said church has multiple members on the board. The board voted unanimously for the change. Either you follow LDS leadership or you don't. If you don't trust their judgement, why are you a member? If you're not a member, on what basis are you upset on that church's behalf?

  • Alaskan Orem, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:42 p.m.

    The timing of the announcement is interesting... just days after their annual Friends of Scouting fund drive ends.

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:40 p.m.

    I have concerns about the direction the BSA is taking. I expect most of those expressing concerns have been heavily involved in Scouting.

    I suspect most of those here cheering this decision have not been so involved and that the changes in the BSA won't change that.

    And on the national scale, I think that is really the demise of Scouting. They have abandoned the practices that made them the youth activity of choice for so many with traditional moral values. But their changes won't ever be sufficient to appease those whose values don't align.

    That all said, several times a year I raise my hand to sustain 15 men as prophets, seers, and revelators. If I don't follow through with action, even and especially when prophetic decisions seem to run counter to what I might have chosen, then my support and sustaining is pretty shallow.

    So long as the LDS Church in America uses the BSA as the male youth activity, as long as my Bishop asks me to support Friends of Scouting, I intend to lend my support, weak and imperfect as it may be.

    Ditto when the church stakes out a position on immigration, guns, the proper definition of marriage, or anything else. Thank Heaven for prophets.

  • Hoosier87 American Fork, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:38 p.m.

    I bet this could make for some interesting campouts...

  • Darien Darien, CT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:34 p.m.

    For those of you saying that this is for politically correctness, they will be separate programs, and the girls program will attract the people who are tire of the Girls Scouts politically correctness. If we are lucky the Girl Scouts will develop a boys program and take all of the politically correct people and then they will stop coming up with lawsuits ageist the BSA for everything.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:33 p.m.

    As a father of a girl I certainly would not be comfortable sending her to a National Jamboree and having our current POTUS use the platform for one of his crude, political rallies.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:33 p.m.

    Unfortunately our ward already had the good ole "friends of scouting" drive and I contributed as in years past. However, the Boy Scouts program keeps evolving in directions that I am feeling less comfortable with. When the friends of scouting drive comes around next year I will really have to wrestle with the idea of continuing to contribute. At this point I'm about done with the "former" good Boy Scouts of America program that is now being corrupted by many influences.

  • Justavenger Houston, TX
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:32 p.m.

    Who cares? The Boy Scouts are dead. They are alive in name only. None of my kids are interested in scouting because they are ashamed to let their friends and prospective girlfriends know they are affilated with scouting. The Mormon Church needs to stick with relevant programs that will turn out missionary ready youth. The Genderless Scouts just don't meet kids needs anymore. I'm glad my kids have to worry about this issue and not me.

  • elpis Blue Springs, MO
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:31 p.m.

    Adg or activity day girls is financed at 50% the level of boys cub scouts with half the activities 2x/mo as compared to weekly for boys. No girls badges, no arrow of light, no award ceremonies , and no cub camp financing. The church system for the girls is not equal and this needs to change.

  • Fabled Soul Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:31 p.m.

    I’d be ashamed to be associated with any organization that can’t comprehend the meaning of its own name.

  • TX-LDS Plano, TX
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:23 p.m.

    BSA likely sees the writing on the wall that funding from the LDS church may disappear completely within a few years. Scouting will need new revenue streams. Their best option... increasing potential members by 100%.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:19 p.m.

    8-11 is an age where the boys would rather be around other boys; and girls around other girls. So I am not sure how many girls would want to join cub scouts. They do not go camping so I do not see problems with combining the two other than I would not want to be the leader.

  • scooterthemaltese Idaho Falls, ID
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:16 p.m.

    I swear I saw this when it was an episode of the Brady bunch.

  • Darien Darien, CT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:15 p.m.

    I have my hunch that this has something to do with the law suite going on here in CT which the outcome was likely to require this. Basically the Girls Scout Gold reward does not look as good and is not as well known as the Boy Scout Eagle. The plaintiff is calming discrimination and that is is a Title IX issue because it effects college admissions and getting a job. Several lawyers I have talked to at local Scouting events say that the plaintiff could easily win the lawsuit.

    The Boy Scouts in England were forced to admit girls after a similar lawsuit, whale Girl Guides were not forced to admit Boys in a lawsuit.

    I notice that the Boy Scout aged girls will have a separate program and boys and girls will be in separate troops, so I don't see this as a major policy change and it prevents a lot of turmoil for the BSA.

    Girls Scouts USA should have steeped up a long time ago and went back to the program that girls wanted based on the same values as the BSA which it had in the 70s and 80s. I can't tell you how many times I have herd one of my scouts sisters say "Why can't we do that in girl scouts?".

  • Fabled Soul Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:14 p.m.

    The name of their organization “Boy Scouts” doesn’t even make sense anymore. Enough said.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:11 p.m.

    Many don't know it, but those funds you donate to Friends of Scouting don't actually go to help the boys themselves. They are used to pay the high salaries of the scout executives who make decisions like this one. So while your local scout master is shivering in a tent with the scout troop and not getting paid a dime to do so; some executive is making way more than you or I to make boneheaded decisions that kowtow to the PC crowd. My donations have gotten smaller and smaller, until this year I passed altogether.

    I am glad that I was a Boy Scout and that my sons also had the opportunity, but it is a shell of what it used to be. I seriously doubt that I will have any grandsons in the program.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    Oct. 11, 2017 1:00 p.m.

    This will be a turf war between BSA and Girl Scouts of America (GSA). Feminism is pushing the idea that girls can do anything boys can do, and consequently, I think BSA will win the turf war. GSA and BSA would be better off financially by merging. But, I think politics and pride will interfere. GSA seems more liberal. BSA more conservative. So, merger not likely to happen in the near future.

    The LDS Church is staying out of this fight by sticking with Activity Days and Personal Progress for girls. But, it is interesting that the LDS Church pullout of young men 14 to 17 years from BSA was the catalyst. BSA needs to find more money.

  • Rocket Science Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:53 p.m.

    For future application of BSA Programs in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, we should all hold on, take a deep breath, and leave those decisions to Church leadership. No need to criticize or tell those who know best what should be done. In the past BSA has allowed the Church to adapt programs to LDS purposes, if scouting accomplishes that in the future the partnership may continue, if not it may be dissolved. The values and ideals of Scouting have been consistent with those of the Church. But know that the LDS Church has been in Scouting not just for LDS young men but for young men of all faiths.

    To those who contend “we have Duty to God and do not need scouting” there is a lack of understand of the Duty to God effort. Just recently I heard Brother Holmes, of the Young Men’s General Presidency, say “Duty to God is not, cannot, be a substitute for Scouting”.

  • Scovy rexburg, ID
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:53 p.m.

    When will the BSA change their name, they no longer focus on one gender. We now live in a world where there's 20+ and growing. Will they become non binary scouts, gender fluid scouts, androgyne scouts?

  • AZ Blue & Red Gilbert, AZ
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:49 p.m.

    So will our "Boy Scout" troop now need to start to sell cookies?

    There is a place for Boys and Girls. I have had kids in both scouting organizations. I understand equality but there are differences that need to be addressed. Equal yes, Same no.

    In less than 10 years I see the scouting organization imploding. Sad as I loved the Boy Scouts and was proud to be one as a boy and as a leader.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:38 p.m.

    ...and?...what.

    Good, wholesome morals principles are gender neutral.

    This is no longer the 1800's with separate boarding schools by gender.
    Girls learn about sewing and cooking,
    and Boys learn about saddle making and cart repair.

    Seez,
    ...then we wonder and complain why girls are not going into Science, Technology, Engineering and Math....

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:35 p.m.

    More politically correct liberal crapolla. I thank God my kids are all grown up. I couldn't imagine trying to raise a child in the current social environment.

    That being said, don't we have organizations for girls? I mean, they created the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts for boys and the Brownies and Girl Scouts for girls, didn't they? So, what's the point besides the left-wing, PC gender-benders imposing their will on the American people?

    We need to wake up here, folks.

  • starkat West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:30 p.m.

    @QuickRick - They did include the response in the article:

    "The Activity Days and Personal Progress programs of the church have long been in place to meet the needs of girls and young women in these age groups, and no change will be made in church programs," said LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins. "We recognize that the desire of the BSA is to expand their programs to serve more young people in the United States. The church, too, continues to look at ways to serve the needs of our youth worldwide."

  • JapanCougar Layton, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:24 p.m.

    I don't have a problem with youth programs that include both boys and girls (our schools do it), however, I'm also fine with programs just for one gender or the other. There's benefits to both.

    If the BSA wants to have programs for girls that's OK with me--I think my little girls would love cub scouts too. But, I'd like to see them maintain some programs that just focus on the issues boys face as they grow and prepare them to be great men. Boys need specific programs for them to help them learn to deal with the challenges of life. Our prisons indicate we need to do more.

    So, I'll withhold judgment on this until I see how it's implemented.

  • shadowfx Chandler, AZ
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:19 p.m.

    Baby Snowflakes of America
    The pc police are at work on an institution the Baden Powell built. It is all about $$$$ and corporate welfare. They are the ones dangling the carrot for the BSA to follow.
    Maybe the LDS Church will finally wake up and quit being a CASH COW for the overpaid BSA executives.

  • Laurels Sandy, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:10 p.m.

    The article states: "'The Activity Days and Personal Progress programs of the church have long been in place to meet the needs of girls and young women in these age groups, and no change will be made in church programs,' said LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins."

    If the Activity Days for Girls program meets the needs of the LDS 8 to 11YO girls, and the Personal Progress program meets the needs of the LDS 12 to 18YO young women and work well, then why doesn't the LDS Church perceive the Activity Days for Boys and Duty to God programs don't meet the needs of the LDS 8 to 11YO boys and the LDS 12 to 18YO young men in the United States and Canada? These LDS programs meet the needs of the other LDS boys/young men in other parts of the world. Why is there an ongoing disparity in the perception of the "needs" of the LDS boys/young men in the United States and Canada?

    This inconsistency across the world in LDS congregations, and between the boys/young men and girls/young women in the U.S. and Canada makes no sense.

  • Flying Finn Murray, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:06 p.m.

    I have volunteer to help with our local Friends of Scouting fund raiser each year, and have noticed resistance to it from my neighbors as time has passed. Next year will be the first time I don't donation.

    Robert Stephenson Smyth Baden-Powell, Founder of the Boy Scouts, would be disgusted with the destruction of this once fine organization to help boys.

  • JLindow St George, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:05 p.m.

    They're going to allow girls to be cub scouts? Clearly a sign of the apocalypse.

    If we start letting girls participate in the same programs available to boys, next thing you know they'll be agitating for the right to vote, drive, and own property.

  • patriotstate Cedar City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:04 p.m.

    Lord Baden Powell had a vision, to provide leadership training and experience opportunities to boys, by starting the Boy Scouts. He also started the Girl Guides, to address the concerns of girls. The opportunities and experiences needed buy both genders to exist as productive members of adult society overlap, but are not identical, hence the two organizations.

    Watering down the program is an inevitable result of a gender merger in Scouting, and will not benefit boys or girls more that the current programs. I see a value reduction in my Eagle Scout medal, all for political correctness.

  • Kim Cedar Park, Texas
    Oct. 11, 2017 12:02 p.m.

    Probably a wise move by the Boy Scouts. Still leave the local option, yet recognize that Scouting principles are universal.

  • QuickRick Brigham City, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:49 a.m.

    So if the title of the article said :...LDS Church Responds", what was the response? Why put that in the title if the article doesn't even mention it?

    I wonder if they are going to change the name of the organization?

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:45 a.m.

    How exactly does this change how the Church does Scouting? (Hint - it doesn't.)

    The reality, though, is that Scouting has increasing little influence on how many Mormon boys go on missions, and that's the reality the Church is dealing with.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:43 a.m.

    anyone feel more compelled now to contribute to Friends of Scouting? You can see where this is headed. In less than 5 years it won't be Boy Scouts of America anymore -- just Scouts of America and you won't be allowed to refer to a scout as a boy or girl nor will you be allowed to have gender specific bathrooms but instead there will be one bathroom that all share. Yes BSA is rotting on the vine and political correctness is to blame. Thankfully in any Christian church you can just say NO to scouting.

  • Wyomex Burlington, WY
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:41 a.m.

    Unanimous? By the Boy Scout Board of Directors?

    That implies a lot of quiet background work and lobbying by those who wanted this.

    What LDS leaders are on the Board?

    Will it now be "Scouts of America" instead of "Boy Scouts of America?"

    Lot's of interesting questions.

  • Fair Flower Layton, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:41 a.m.

    If it's called Boy Scouts, the name seems totally weird to me. How can it be called such if there are girls in it?

  • PacificCreek Puyallup, WA
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:39 a.m.

    It will now be known as the sunshine scouts of America. Hopefully the church continues to implement their own program that meets the needs of its membership rather than relying on the BSA (or SSA) to build a framework around.

  • starkat West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:36 a.m.

    Interesting decision by the "Boy" Scouts of America. Seriously, at this point they need to change their name, since they are no longer interested in providing a program for boys.

  • Justmythoughts Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:31 a.m.

    Yet another step down the road for the "boy" scouts towards political correctness. It is sad to see what this once great organization has become. Thankfully I haven't been hit up for my friends of scouting donation yet.... I think I'll pass on that this year.

  • Rick for Truth Provo, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:30 a.m.

    The time has come for a complete break from the Boy Scouts of America. What actions dose BSA have to take for the LDS church to realize they just are not the same organization of the past. We have to start our own program now, not later. Why do we continue to expose our young boys to this outside program, that no longer has shared values with the Church.

  • Pacer Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 11, 2017 11:27 a.m.

    Ummm .... wut?