Public has high expectations for public education, House Speaker Greg Hughes says
Wow, great slight of hand; counting money already appropriated as a raise. The
$4200 has been a part of teacher salaries for years. Either the legislature is
trying to deceive or the Deseret News has done shoddy research.
Scheeze! I'm going to clean out my couch cushions tonight!
Does Finland spend more money on education or just manage better?
To answer your questions with some explanations:--Salary schedule:
It should start at 50K with the steps and lanes it has now with cost of living
increases adjusted for education.--Teaching isn't the only stressful
job in America worf, but not sure what that has to do with anything. We have a
teacher shortage in our state/nation, time to pony up.--School principals
aren't paid enough, district probably are. But would any company pay
somebody that manages billions of dollars, a large building and maybe over a 100
employees, let alone maybe 2000 students 100K. I bet that job description would
call for a lot more. Pay teachers baby sitting wages per kid and see that the
teacher/admin is a BARGAIN!--Our local HS has four principals for about
2000 students house in six different buildings. I would say NO, we don't
have enough administrators.--Yes, things can be more efficient and done
better.--Yes, education can be done better but it might take more
investment, say like they do in Finland, in people (their teachers!). Cutting
education isn't going to get better results, I promise you!
So! * how much of a school salary is enough for teachers?*
is teaching school the only stressful job in our country?* are school
administrators paid enough? * can schools function with half as many
administrators being paid half of their current salaries?* can students
be effectively taught without standardized testing?* can parents afford
meals for their children? * can tax money be more efficiently managed?* why are automobile engines, transmissions, and suspensions designed by
foreign engineers?Somehow, we're not getting a big bang out of
every buck put into American education.
As a teacher of many years, I know what it is like to keep my wife home taking
care of five children while living on a teacher's salary. Those days at the
end of the month waiting for the next pay check while living on pasta and peanut
butter were not fun. The only thing that kept us in the profession were the
benefits. We understood that the retirement at the end was solid and the medical
insurance was top notch. When my small boy had an accident and needed to be
helicoptered to Primary, all but $500.00 dollars was taken care of. That kind
of insurance was on top of the salary. I now pay $530.00 per month for stripped
down coverage. The legislature gutted the retirement for new teachers in 2011.
They now work 35 years for a scaled back pension. The reasons for going into the
profession have been removed and starting salaries still lag behind other jobs
that require a college education. In the real world society honors hard work
with increased pay and promotions. Teaching must be made into an honored
profession or the time will soon come when there are no quality teachers!!!
The headline is very misleading because the legislature is attempting to mislead
the public with the language. The legislature is discussing a $2,000 pay raise
that bypasses the WPU and is added to a couple direct pay raises of $4,200 that
happened over ten years ago. They are simply tacking on the $2,000 to the
decade old $4,200 spending authorization and calling it a $6,200 raise.
As a native Utahn I can say that we are a peculiar people. We are also a cheap
people. Realistically, teaching isn't going to be the highest paying
career choice, but it ought to be a very lucrative career choice. We all agree
that teachers are vital to any society, so why would we not pay them well?
Yes, they do get summers off. But I guarantee you that they make up for that
during the school year when they bring your kids assignments home to grade.
There is much more to this than most people who aren't involved realize.
"How do leaking pipes and bad class rooms get fixed by paying teachers more.
A teacher should see the idiotic position that presents. We need to spend money
on the infrastructure and not the teacher!!"Exactly right!Let's have great buildings.But no teachers. Got it . . .
Reading the comments and this article is like saying a parent gives their love
more to one of their children more than another.If an elementary
teacher gets their education from an Ivy League school vs a state school, should
they be paid more than the other?New teachers start out the
same...reward teachers for their desire to teach, their longevity and ingenuity!
Mckell Withers, Superintendent of Salt Lake School District gross
compensation is $352, 708. There's a lot of $6,200 in that salary.That district is paying handsomely to attract top people. Let's
make Utah an attractive place for really good teachers!
@13BpatriotAlso, it is right to say that computer programming
requires less education and certification than teaching. He's not saying
education classes are harder than programming courses. However, formal education
and certification is not even a requirement for computer programming, while it
is for teaching. My brother-in-law is a programmer, makes really good money, but
didn't graduate from college.I am a former teacher looking to
transition to computer programming for several reasons (money being one, the
state and politics of education in general being another). My brother-in-law
actually advised me to not get a degree in programming, but rather to learn it
in other ways.Also, I had friends who were majoring in engineering
and/or programming. I envied their class/work loads, and I can tell you that
they certainly didn't envy mine.
@13BpatriotYou are misinformed.I think you are trying to
say that a starting teacher in Utah makes more than the national average for
starting teachers. Well, that's hard to verify because 1) it's hard to
pinpoint the national average, and 2) it depends on which district you are in.
For example, starting teachers in Park City district are being paid $50,700 per
year next year while new Jordan district teachers (in 2017) are getting paid
$34,339 per year.
13Bpatriot I think your comments are short sighted. Those degrees
that are more rigorous are built on a foundation of previous and vital knowledge
provided by educators. I would submit that school teachers are even
more important than engineers and computer programmers. Without teacher's
skills and efforts most people would not have the foundational knowledge needed
to work in those "more important" professions. If anything
teachers should be paid more. They set the foundation for all learning that
follows, rigorous and otherwise.
13BpatriotTo answer your question... I Math Teacher who has a Mathematics
Degree has taken more Calculus courses that a Computer Science Major.You would be surprised to see the number of Math Majors, who are
@UteofferouusI agree with your point, but teachers are working moms
too! Believe me, as a working mom I totally get the exhaustive nature of life.
I was the foolish teacher who wanted the world for my students and put in extra
"FREE" time that made my salary laughable. My students excelled in
language arts, often performing well above district and state standards.
However, It cost me my sanity and took precious time away from my own children.
Yes, every career does that, but most are compensated well for it. Parenting is
one of those jobs that never go away. I too would come home exhausted and ready
for a break. It is unfortunate that many of our students don't even come
from two parent homes anymore. Teachers end up taking on a brunt of problems
that should be solved by parents, this also wastes a lot of classroom time. Do
we want teachers to teach or parent?
DNews, please change your headline immediately. Your explanation does not match
the headline. This would only be a $2,000 raise and I can tell you teachers do
not want the raise provided in this way. Legislators--you are not educators. You
do not know how to spend the money well. That is why you need to give the money
to the districts in the WPU. Stop playing games. Your earmarks don't work.
Funny how you chide the feds for telling you how to govern because you know
better at the state level, but you treat all local entities as fools. You are
not smarter than the rest of us. Stop putting money on pet projects to make
yourselves look good and give a real boost to the WPU. The worst bill you passed
in recent years was to single out some teachers to get raises like you are
considering for SPED teachers. I am an 18 year veteran SPED teacher with a
masters degree in teaching writing and half way through a doctorate in
educational leadership. I took certification classes 18 years ago and while
teaching SPED classes in order to earn my certification but my undergraduate
major was not SPED. So I would not qualify under the sped salary in crease bill.
In what world does that make sense?
It is fun to use big numbers, but as was already pointed out, it is actually a
$2,000 pay raise (still nice), not the $6,200 raise stated in the title of the
article. Another poster also stated that the education budget is $16 billion;
but that is actually the TOTAL state budget. Public education is $4.8 billion
of that budget (source: Utah state budget report). While that is a lot of
money, all you have to do is spend time in our schools to realize that is enough
to scrape by with the high number of students we have, the cost of building
maintenance and construction, etc. I don't understand how paying our
teacher more is ever a bad thing. While there are definitely other factors that
impact teacher motivation, a pay increase never hurts and always helps teachers
feel more valued.
Teachers, Police and First Responders all should be paid more. For the job they
do and the impact that they have on society is more than most people realize.
Teachers have their hands tied when it comes to teaching and disciplining
students. Constant over watch by Administrations and parents who don't want
to face reality that their kids most of the time are the real problem. Talk about raising taxes continue to have kids with student loans and low
paying jobs and defaulting on those loans then be on government assistance and
see what your taxes do.
How do leaking pipes and bad class rooms get fixed by paying teachers more. A
teacher should see the idiotic position that presents. We need to spend money
on the infrastructure and not the teacher!!
@WJ_CoachYou can't compare being a teacher to being a software
engineer. Your point is a misleading one. A teacher graduating with a
bachelor's does far less to achieve that degree than a computer science
major. For example, how many calculus classes does a teaching degree require? At
the U, computer science/engineering requires 4 calculus classes. The
careers you pointed out and tried to say are the same as teaching, are in
reality, far more rigorous to obtain and far more valuable an any education
degree. Education majors are consistently ranked as the easiest degree programs.
You can't compare that to the degree programs that are consistently ranked
as the hardest.
Please reconsider. My family comes from a long line of educators in Utah and
outside. I currently live in California but own property in Utah. The last
thing Utah needs is to raise any raise or tax based upon "found" money.
California has made this mistake over and over, from the rise of the dot.com
industry to the excuse that the ecomony will continue to go up regardless of
history. This has left California now looking under every rock and to tax
anything that moves simply because of bad decisions years ago. Utah-come to
your senses and do not make any raise or economic decision based upon a flash of
the moment. It will be a descend into an ever growing gov't and tax
increases that won't end.
News Flash, State Representatives, it’s not your money. You took it from
us, the Utah tax payers. Try giving us, the people you took it from, back our
money.I know you will never give us our money back, this is why we
detest all of your tax and spend policies.
Teacher pay is a huge issue in itself, but the idea of boosting an ongoing
expense (ie anybody's wages) with one-time found monies is pure
foolishness. Just look to California and the pension systems
fiasco, if you'd like to se the results
13BpatriotPlease site your source for where you get 90 percent of Granite
Budget goes to Teacher's salaries.That is NOT the case at all,
the budget mainly covers programs to help students learn, from getting free
lunch to had specialist help them when they get behind,. Not to mention
facilities maintenance, federal programs, etc.UteofferouusYour
right every job has stress, but to dismiss the stress of teachers and trying to
compare it to a stay at home mom.... well, if would be comparable if the husband
came home every night and told his wife they are doing poor job every day. That
is what teachers get from Administration, Parents, Legislature and the general
public.. "You are not doing a good enough job". As would poster put it,
Money is nice, but better and more support is important.Just so you
know, my wife is a teacher, I watch her put in at the school 10 hours a day, 5
days a week making sure her kids are taught the very best she can provide. Then
she comes home and puts in another 2-3 hours. She gets paid for 8.5 hours a day.
Teachers don't need a pay raise.The BEGINNING Utah teacher starts off
with a higher salary than the state's national average.School
Districts need to learn how to budget better. Granite SD 2017-2018 budget is
$642.7 million and 90% of that is spent on teacher salaries.How much more
$$$ are we going to take from Utah families (who on average make less than
teachers do) in order to give teachers more before we say it's enough?
@teachermom6:You make a few good points that are valid. Believe it
or not, a lot if not most jobs have high levels of stress – not just
teaching jobs – just ask working mothers about their stress levels!Where I really agree with you is that factors like “manipulation
of parents” is a real problem. But my friend, that is one of the
realities of living in a “politically correct” world where teachers
can no longer discipline the students or hold them accountable. Who gets the
credit for creating that world? Moreover, many parents won’t
take accountability for assisting teachers or even really supporting their own
children because in many cases both parents are out there working very hard and
are too tired and worn out to get engaged with the teachers or their
children.I grew up in a time when it was “politically
correct” for the father to be the primary provider and for the mother to
be home to nurture the children, provide nutritious meals, and spend quantity
and quality time with children and to support their teachers too. But oh, how
dare I highlight the benefits from that type of family structure in
today’s “enlightened” society?
@MaxPower:A lot of teachers make more than "40K" a year -
and remember that is for less than 12 months of work! Plus they get a pretty
generous benefits package compared to a lot of other people.It is no
more right to tax people out of their homes than it is to under pay our
wonderful teachers!Now, I don't mind at all if we give teachers
a raise - as long as you don't keep raising my property taxes to do it -
are you listening Utah Legislature?My property taxes have gone up
$300.00 a year for each of the last 2 years and much of that goes toward public
education. My self and a lot of folks on a fixed income can't handle
these on-going increases for property tax increases. Perhaps
Legislators can find ways to reduce waste in expenditures to pay for teacher
salaries? You could reduce the salaries of the football and basketball coaches
at state owned universities for starters. If they're salaries don't
come from taxes, then take all the extra football revenues and use it to pay
I left the profession 3 years ago, after teaching for six years. Teaching in our
state is looked upon as nothing more than a glorified church calling. Increased
wages may help in a very small way, but what teachers desperately need to do is
work ONLY their contract hours, and invest in their classrooms ONLY what they
are compensated for. We have large class sizes and the constant threat of
termination looming in the background because Johnny can’t read, write or
do math. However, accountability is only placed at the teacher’s feet
with no shared place at the table for parents or students. We as a state wonder
why people don’t want to go into the profession? Teaching was by and large
the most rewarding job I had, but not worth the stress, manipulation of parents,
nor the horrible lack of support. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to go into
this profession without drastic changes. To my teaching friends please stop
giving your time and efforts for free. I know you want to bless your students,
but it hurts only you in the end!
Teachers make a pittance.A seasoned teacher makes less than
40k/year. And they deal with 30 screaming 8 and 9 year olds all day...every
day.If you are like me, you are ready for a break from your own kids
after a couple of hours on the weekend.
The issues affecting teachers are not common to all school districts. Class size
is a problem depending on your location and student population. Some districts
are faced with smaller class sizes and a myriad of different issues. The biggest
issue in the classroom in some schools is zero parental involvement in their
students academic endeavors. Too many school aged kids come to school hungry,
poorly clothed, and unable to learn in a traditional setting. Students are
unable to focus and less time is spent teaching and more time trying to correct
behavior. Special education needs additional funding to work with those children
who start behind and need to learn to read or write at their school level.
Administration needs to help teachers more in the classroom and spend less time
worrying about metrics. The overall goal should be educating our students and
preparing them for the challenges of the 21st century. The definition of
insanity is doing the same thing the same way and expecting a different result.
Utah is heading towards a huge retirement boom for teachers aging out of the
system with fewer new graduates to replace them.Until we value our
public education system, we are not going to attract the right kind of people
for the job. Education is an investment that pays off in the long term.
The legislators found money "hidden in the cushions?" How does that
work - how are they able to "lose" enough money to fund a $6,200
increase for every teacher? That does not pass the smell test.And I
still don't understand why people are not allowed to petition and vote for
initiatives that interest us. We should at least be allowed to vote for Our
Schools Now without the legislature defeating it before we even get a say
because they "know better what we want." And even if you don't
agree with Our Schools Now (hey - you can vote no!), what happens tomorrow when
it is an issue that interests you? Our legislators should not have final say.
I hope a little of this will go to teachers' substitutes who go the extra
mile in all these schools every day!
Why shouldn’t we continue to spend more in education?Are we
seeing fewer students?Has the teacher shortage been resolved?Is
spending per pupil now at least average in the nation?Those whining
about spending in education don’t seem to understand much about the
subject. When your classroom sizes are gigantic, more and more
students are flooding the system, resources dwindling, and teachers are
abandoning ship to work in professions that pay them a living wage for their
hard earned degrees, the ONLY solution is to “throw more money” at
education. Maybe instead of wasting away money at prison relocations
and winter games we should finally actually invest in public education? After
all, how’s all those tech jobs gonna be filled if our children
aren’t educated?Cmon repubs, turn your thinking caps on and
When you compare teacher’s salaries to similar professional careers,
teachers are paid well below jobs that require less education and certification.
At our school, we have had 3 teachers in the past year that have left teacher
for higher paying jobs out in the prIvate sector. Public accountants, registered
nurses, and computer programmers, with less required degrees and certifications,
make on average $15K more per year thank teachers. Even with the pay raise last
year, teachers in Utah are paid around $10K less than teachers in surrounding
states. The pay raise last year only put me back to the same salary I was at
prior to the 2008 economic downturn when our salaries were cut 5-10%.
Deseret News needs to print a correction or clarify its reporting.I
had to read the article multiple times to figure out the math. The problem is
that the article claims teachers will be getting a $6,200 raise, but this is
factually inaccurate based on what is reported. Yes, $2000 plus $4200 equals
$6200. However, the $4200, as reported, is compensation that nearly every
teacher in Utah has earned annually for at least 10 years. How does that amount
to a raise when the $4200 has been a part of our earnings for a decade? Am I
missing something? Is the $4200 new money or not?As such, the $2000
would equal an increase of $166 per month for each teacher's family in the
State, so in essence, it would be a little less than a $1 per hour raise. Thank
you so much for thinking of us in these lean economic times. Sadly, this amount
would make a tremendous difference in the monthly balance sheets of many of our
teachers, especially those who are just starting out.
I urge Fullypresent and DN Subscriber to come visit my classroom. How do you get
smaller classrooms without funding? I teach in a building that was built in
1961. Our water pipes are so old it is rust colored when it first comes out. Those holidays you are talking about are not paid. We have them off but
many use that to work another job. I just used my own money to get another
certification. I use my own time everyday to work on new lesson plans as I go to
school more than an hour before contract time so I can grade papers, email
parents, get lessons ready, buy supplies, make copies, and talk to students to
make those connections. I invite you to see what a mark teachers make in lives
every day...and this post is just a scratch.
I need to ask the obvious question. Why does the state legislature control
Public Education is Public Day Care sprinkled with some literacy and
numeracy.We should cut higher education 50% and put that money into
higher vocational colleges with real jobs.A Phd's in English,
Sociology, Philosophy, Sports Casting, are fun, but not a good investment for
society as a whole. A degree does not confer intelligence or common
No teacher can realistically teach 30 to 35 second graders alone, which has
become all too common now. We need to greatly reduce class sizes.
This is awesome news. It's too bad it isn't a $10,000 hike. What people forget is that schools are competing with every other business out
there. You want more applicants? More competition? A better pool of applicants
to choose from? Then you need to make the job more attractive. And a
big part of that is pay.
How about giving the teachers raises out of the over $16,000,000,000 annual
educational budget? By the way, that is 16 BILLION dollars, which is more than
adequate to give substantial pay raises, and still have money for other
purposes. The LAST place law makers should be looking for additional money is
from the over taxed public.
Didn't teachers just get a raise? Emotional exhaustion, stress and
burnout are the key reasons for moving to a different school or leaving teaching
altogether. They have great benefits, summers and lots of holidays off, and
other things. Those are worth some money too. Money can't
replace good parent support, smaller classrooms, and good mentoring.
The danger lies in the chance that gullible Utah voters will approve the ballot
initiative, in addition to the Legislature throwing money at education.The entrenched education establishment will never be satisfied with their
funding, and even if one, or both plans to spend more on education pass, you can
be sure they will be back next year demanding more.We spend enough
on education, and too much of that is wasted on bureaucracy, bloated
administrative staffs, and building schools that are one of a kind architectural
monuments instead of basic functional places to learn.Why is it that
taxpayers are always the ones forced to make do with less, even when they work