Letter: Does character still matter for the presidency?

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  • fatenews Lehi, UT
    Feb. 15, 2018 10:24 a.m.

    If any president, or politician for that matter, single-handedly diminished and quashed the indubitable necessity, requirement and importance of character in Washington leadership, it is Donald Trump. Without question, he has certainly normalized sexual and many other improprieties in a president.

  • Denverite Centennial, CO
    Feb. 15, 2018 7:59 a.m.

    Wrong question. The question is, when did character *ever* matter for the Presidency since Democrats got involved ? Consider, and look up:

    1824-Jackson--the first Democrat President--married his wife before she was divorced from first husband. Lost election narrowly; screamed "vote fraud" for 4 years, later got 2 terms during which he created a 6-year depression and the Trail of Tears.

    1884-Cleveland-a Democrat--fathered a child out of wedlock. Everyone knew it. He won the popular vote 3 elections in a row--and 2 terms in office.

    20th century: Harding, FDR, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Clinton- not all Democrats, but all known (or highly suspected) adulterers before they took office. And this doesn't count Nixon, who never cheated on his wife AFAIK--but had other issues.

    The whole "lack of character" ship, especially for Democrats, sailed a long, long time ago. Trump fits right into that. I too wish he hadn't cheated on his first 2 wives, but the things he's gotten done so far have generally been better than I hoped for--and a million times better than Hillary would have been. All he needs now is to get Congress term-limited.

  • RedShirtHarvard Cambridge, MA
    Feb. 15, 2018 6:58 a.m.

    It is funny to see the debate raging on about Trump and Bill Clinton and their affairs. All it does is prove the point that character no longer matters.

    Bill Clinton was having affairs while in office, and the media pushed aside as much as possible. Trump had affairs, and we have become so desensitized to it that most Americans don't care.

    The point is, character no longer matters. All that is important is that your side wins.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 14, 2018 6:32 p.m.

    @anti-liar - you said " and that if Trump was guilty of lasciviousness in the distant past, the Christian Gospel of Repentance and Redemption effectively erases those things."

    Now if we were to do a name swap on that and replace it with Clinton, are you feeling the same way still? Why does the atonement apply to Trump, and not others. Is it because he (ok his lawyer paid) a lady $130,000 to keep his secret? Is that part of the redemption process?

    I don't like Clinton at all personally. He was very astute politically, but morally not someone I admire. But the blatant double standard is just annoying. For 20 plus years we have been constantly reminded of all the evils of being named Clinton. And yet somehow if your name is Trump, these don't apply. Payoffs, bragging about what he did, tried to seduce a married woman, countless interviews on Howard Stern that were just crass, appearances in Playboy, multiple marriages.... and all is forgiven because he claims to be a "conservative".

    What the heck does conservative mean anymore? As long as you have an R next to your name... all is forgiven? Not the party I used to belong to.

  • anti-liar Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 14, 2018 1:46 p.m.

    @Lew Elton Jeppson -

    "And Trump even bragged about the ease with which he could get in any woman's pants. ... And this does not bother the religious right at all!"

    It doesn't bother the Christian Right -- because they recognize that is not fair to characterize a social commentary by Trump pertaining to celebrity sycophantism on the part of many women with some actual activity on Trump's own part; and that if Trump was guilty of lasciviousness in the distant past, the Christian Gospel of Repentance and Redemption effectively erases those things. (And, no; there is NO reasonable basis for disputing Trump's own testimony of his own Christian faith, repentance and redemption.) Of course, some allow Trump no such possibility -- because they don't believe in the Christian Gospel of Repentance and Redemption.

    @Edgar

    "openly admitted to sexually assaulting women"

    Completely false.

  • Prometheus Platypus Orem, UT
    Feb. 14, 2018 11:35 a.m.

    Gildas claims: "You have found one adultery twenty-five years ago although it clearly was not a casual affair as they married when free and stayed married about as long as we in the Western states. After that you have no proven dalliances, just unproven accusations."

    This was just one, listed for your convenience, if one care to look, you can find recordings of Donald bragging about many affairs, he wasn't embarrassed by his behavior, he wore it as one wears a medal of honor. Remember the war he fought at home during Vietnam, against getting STD's. Howard Stern has quite a lot of recording's but isn't releasing them, but they have been heard again and again.

    Gildas claims: "The accusations about Donald are highly exaggerated, often extremely hypocritical."

    Like gifting a porn star $130,000 just because, can you show me where another president has done this, or it just another case of "You just don't care."

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:51 p.m.

    Just watched CBS & PBS news tonight abt Scott Pruitt & his extravagant travels. Over $30,000 for a military flight to catch a $7,000 trip to Rome. In last few wks alone, he's wracked up over $90,000 in costs. Plus, the $25,000 “secure” phone booth he's installed in his office, & extra S.S. detail he demanded! They also mentioned Zinke, Mnuchin, & others, all targeted by gov't watch groups for using 1st class, chartered & military flights. But Trump sets the tone w/continual trips to his own resorts, at taxpayer expense.

    They also covered questioning of 6 top intelligence agency officials (FBI, CIA, NSA, etc.) by Cong. Intelligence, who were told our election system is under attack by Russi; not only social media, but also attempts to hack machines controling the voting process. Yet Trump won't admit Russia has done anything, or enact sanctions that Congress ordered him to. Some top level officials, incl. Jared Kushner, have been given access to classified info for a year now, w/o ever getting permanent security clearance. This gov't is failing at the highest level to show concern for our democracy & our safety. And people are arguing abt whether there was a payoff to Stormy!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:47 p.m.

    "Allegations are used by too many as if they were facts. Some people don’t seem to know the difference between gossip and truth."

    Mike you are right. But it is funny that now the shoes is on the other foot, we have taken this stance. Just below this "Copybook Headings" list out all the controversies - and yet not one conviction from one of these.

    For example the claim is made "Obama administration officials initially blamed this attack on a spontaneous protest against an anti-Muslim YouTube video that spun out of control" as one of these. Today the White House has been scrambling to explain why at first they said the only knew about the abuse by Porter last week - and yet the FBI confirmed today that they closed out the investigation of Porter in mid-summer.... that have known since then.

    You think we are going to have endless house and senate hearings on how the Trump administration first claimed they didn't know..... but the FBI proves they did? If Hillary's "lie" was worth millions of dollars of tax payers money and thousands of hours in redundant investigation.... should this current White House get the same investigation.

    Nope, because these are just "allegations".

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:47 p.m.

    @ SG in SLC

    Your response is appreciated. It would seem that there was an adulterous relationship; his first marriage lasted about 12 years before he transferred his affections to Marla Maples. After his divorce from Ivana, his first wife, he then married Marla (late 1993) and so they remained together another six years. His third marriage, to Melania, has lasted from 1995 to date, so about twenty-three years so far.

    I neither condemn or condone Donald but think his accusers are often very hypocritical. The average American marriage is said to be a little over eight years Average age of marriage is 27 for women and 29 for men and a lot of these men and women are not celibate before that and even mock those who stay pure.

    You have found one adultery twenty-five years ago although it clearly was not a casual affair as they married when free and stayed married about as long as we in the Western states. After that you have no proven dalliances, just unproven accusations.

    The accusations about Donald are highly exaggerated, often extremely hypocritical.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:04 p.m.

    "More than 50 percent of the public already believes that the Trump campaign was illegally surveilled and smeared through the confluence of the Clinton campaign, the Obama administration, and the FBI." -Copybook Headings

    Do you have a citation for that "more than 50 percent" claim, or is that a "67.4% of statistics are made up on the spot" statistic?

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:01 p.m.

    "Man, I really hate to break this to you. Hillary Clinton lost the election. I'm surprised your media sources haven't told you this." -Fact Check

    Semantics.

    If you want to split hairs about statement intent versus literal meaning, then let's try this on for size:

    Clinton received the most popular votes, by a spread of about 3 million; Trump won the election because he carried more states, albeit by very narrow margins in many cases.

    @barfolomew (and other "whataboutists"),

    Fun fact: Presidential philandering didn't start with Bill Clinton. There is significant evidence that three of the four presidents memorialized on Mount Rushmore had extramarital affairs. Other for whom there is evidence of marital infidelity include James Buchanan (a same-sex relationship), Grover Cleveland, Woodrow Wilson, Warren Harding, FDR, Ike, JFK, LBJ, and Nixon; and this list almost certainly leaves out others who were more "discrete".

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 5:11 p.m.

    "In contrast I don't know that the Donald had, regularly or otherwise, adulterous relationships; if so with whom?" -Gildas

    This one is too easy; you just pitched one right over the middle of home plate. The answer, of course, would be Marla Maples, with whom Donald Trump had an affair in the late 1980s and early 1990s prior to his divorce from Ivana in 1992 (he married Marla in late 1993). While there have been a number of other allegations (the most recent involving Stormy Daniels), Donald's affair with Marla is well-documented.

    "It isn't a matter of caring about character anymore. We do care.

    It's a matter of turning a blind eye to evidence that would normally force people to confront a dissonance between what they claim to believe and what they actually vote for." -Unreconstructed Reb

    Well said. Sadly, cognitive dissonance coupled with confirmation bias has become the "currency of the realm"...

  • Copybook Headings Draper, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 5:01 p.m.

    @Utefan60 - Salt Lake City, UT

    "I wonder why you didn't bring up Obama? I guess an honorable, decent and scandal less administration ..."

    Huh?
    1.) IRS Targeting Scandal

    2.) VA Waiting List Scandal

    3.) GSA Spending Spree Scandal

    4.) Attack on the Benghazi Compound Scandal
    Obama administration officials initially blamed this attack on a spontaneous protest against an anti-Muslim YouTube video that spun out of control.

    5.) Fast and Furious Gun Walking Scandal

    6.) Solyndra Subsidies Scandal

    7.) DOJ and the New Black Panther Party Scandal

    8.) A Job for Sestak Scandal
    In 2010, Rep. Joe Sestak, who was challenging Sen. Arlen Specter in a Pennsylvania Democratic Senate primary, said that the Obama administration had offered him a job to dissuade him from entering the race.

    "President Obama was, and still is the one of the most admired men in the world. How about comparing that to the current world's ratings of Trump."

    So it's a popularity contest now?

    More than 50 percent of the public already believes that the Trump campaign was illegally surveilled and smeared through the confluence of the Clinton campaign, the Obama administration, and the FBI.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 3:48 p.m.

    It's sad that you get castigated and called names... just for supporting the President of the United States (by one group of people here).

    There's never been a President of the United States I didn't support.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 2:30 p.m.

    @Teachy
    RE: "The presidency of Donald Trump is a disaster. Pure. Disaster"...
    ---
    Yes. North Korea allowing it's athletes and leaders to travel to South Korea (something strictly prohibited in the past)... is Disaster... Pure Disaster.

    If Obama or Clinton had been President when this happened... you would congratulate them.

    You are blind to anything positive.

    Read "The 10 best things Trump has done in his first year in office" (Washington Post)

    NK sending athletes to compete with SK teams would have been a feather in Obama's cap if he was President.

    It may just be coincidence (Trump had nothing to do with it). Like Democrats who say Reagan had nothing to do with Russia opening up to America when he was strong and called them out, when he was President.

    Who knows if Trump admin had anything to do with it... but for sure you would not call it a "Disaster" if this happened when Obama was President (which it didn't).

    It's only been a disaster for bitter Democrats.

    IMO It was a good first year. And it could have been better if we worked together, instead of constantly painting the President and half of the American people as "Our enemy" (Obama's words)

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 2:18 p.m.

    It does to most American's, they despise the dishonest and immoral president the GOP foisted on America.

    It doesn't to Trump fans, they will continue to use the same deception, deflection, and destruction of American values, to elevate a person who has proven himself to be incompetent, childish and self serving.

    They want to elevate Trump above America, and that is what Donald want's too, Putin has shown him how great it can be.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 2:16 p.m.

    "The presidency of Donald Trump is a disaster." Can I have your tax savings? You could quit your job and bring up the unemployment numbers. you could then go on food stamps and cause that number to rise. Can I have the net increase in your 401K plan? Should we layoff blacks, Hispanics, and women to bring their unemployment numbers back up?

    Please explain how these are a disaster for the US?

    Please, these are not disasters for anyone except Democrats, that can't offer better. Hating Trump because and only because he won the election, is just 2nd grade tantrums and hate, period.

    He hasn't given N Korea, nor Iran billions of dollars to expand their nuclear ambitions and terrorist activities.

    Please identify any disasters by Trump, other than your hate filled opinions. Oh and hurricanes and fires are not Trump caused disasters.

  • Pssst LOGAN, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 1:47 p.m.

    For those bandying around polling figures of 30% approval and 70% disapproval for Mr Trump I would like to mention that, reporting a 40% approval rating for the week ending February 4th, Gallup reminded us that the present had often been at that figure. Currently Gallup calculates that the prez is at 57 % disapproval - if their figures are good.

    "Trump's weekly job approval average has been just below 40% numerous times last fall and this year, reaching 39% in late December and 38% last week.

    The figures are said to be based on a random sampling of 2,228 respondents of a certain demographic. It bothers me that a truly random sample would unavoidably include a significant of people who are not citizens. I wonder what the figures would be if that demographic was filtered out.

    Anyway I take it all with a dose of salt because most of the pollsters all said that Trump could never win in 2016 too.

  • TeachyMcTeacherPants Sandy, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 1:31 p.m.

    The presidency of Donald Trump is a disaster.

    Pure. Disaster.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 1:22 p.m.

    Yes, tv characters are in high demand. The problem is they continue to talk and act like tv characters.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 12:28 p.m.

    re:patrioticAMERICAN

    you seem to be privy to "lies and misrepresentation" from the president and his press secretary. Can you name one other than what you hear on CNN or MSNBC? Something of substance? Anything? I find it pretty silly that you seem all out of sorts about lies yet you seem oblivious to the past two months of staggering corruption revealed from the FBI email exchanges which have already resulted in firings and demotions in the Dept of Justice and many many more to come including pending felony convictions. Also you seem to be just fine with the recent discovery by the House and Senate regarding the "pay for play" scam with the Uranium One deal in which Ms. Clinton and her hubby received over 150 million in exchange for Russia receiving rights to American Uranium in Wyoming. Doesn't bother you huh? But that's all lies as well I suspect. Right? Are some folks guilty of "straining at gnats and swallowing camels"? Does the phrase "hear no evil see no evil" have meaning to you? It should.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 12:09 p.m.

    I see the word "alleged" used alot in this letter. I have to wonder if Gerald would be ok with someone "alleging" that he had an affair with a porn star and then demanding he quit his job. Would that be fine Gerald? Also I wonder who did all the "alleging"? Perhaps MSNBC and The National Enquirer?

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:56 a.m.

    What is prob. more disturbing to most of America than his sexual exploits, is his daily onslaught of lies thru his tweets, speeches, remarks to reporters, even his SOTU address; & the misrepresentations of his press secretaries—Spicer & Huckabee-Sanders—who often attempt(ed) to justify his claims, woefully failing in credibility.

    I agree that many past presidents have had their flaws, & don't condone their mistakes. I'll even admit some have been adequate presidents despite those flaws, & that Carter (w/undeniable integrity) wasn't our best president. None of that excuses behavior we see daily from Trump.

    Even more concerning—he seems to have infected the GOP Congress as well, as most are unwilling to speak out against him or his policies. Some are even complicit in his attempt to derail the Mueller investigation.

    His own lawyers have publicly stated they don't want him testifying under oath to Mueller, because they're afraid he'll be caught lying or misrepresenting facts. Anyone supporting a president like that has absolutely no credibility in my book, & should be ashamed. You've sold your birthright for a mess of pottage (conservative S.C. Justice & a measly raise)

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:55 a.m.

    To "Utefan60 " Clinton was not impeached about his extramarital affairs. He was impeached for lying. Per the law, he can go out and have all of the affairs he wants. But the law also says that he can't lie about the affairs when under oath.

    How is Obama honest and truthful? He used the IRS to attack conservative groups, he used executive privilege to cover up a gun running scheme. He has protected and covered up for so many wrong doings during his administration that he needs a 10,000 square ft closet to house all of the skeletons.

  • patrioticAMERICAN South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:36 a.m.

    I agree morals & integrity didn't seem to matter to liberal Dems the last few decades. But even more disturbing is that it doesn't seem to matter to many "conservatives" anymore, either.

    It's telling that in defense of Trump, his supporters simply attack the Clintons & other Dems,, or claim nothing's been proven, so it's not true.

    I think 21 women accusing Trump of sexual misconduct—after he bragged abt those same behaviors on a video recording that can't be disputed by sane, honest people—is entirely believable. As a woman, I was offended that millions of American women then turned around & voted for him in the gen. election. It offends me even more that some here are vilifying the victims—one even claiming Trump's bragging meant women “lost any sense of morality when accosted by [wealthy] men.” I don't think women trying to change in a pageant dressing room, lose their “sense of morality”, simply because the owner walks in on them unannounced.

    What abt his very publicized affair w/Marla Maples, causing his divorce from Ivana in '92? But maybe that was only reported by “drive-by media”, so, not believable—though Tiffany might have something to say abt that. (more follows)

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:31 a.m.

    Of course, character matters. The problem is that finding a politician from either party with unquestionable character is almost impossible. The only one I can think of is Mitt Romney, but even certain conservative groups turned their back on him.

    This snowball fight between the Left and Right is pathetic. The Right points to Bill and Hillary. The Left points to Trump. It's never ending nonsense.

  • 83Ute Ogden/Weber, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:22 a.m.

    All of the comparisons to Clinton, Kennedy, and others is irrelevant. In my mind, the issue is as follows. The Republican party used to be the party of family values and fiscal responsibility.

    However, it is no longer either of those. Trump is a disgusting human being with no sense of family values or integrity whatsoever. The silence from the GOP leaders in Congress is deafening. And, both the president and the GOP controlled congress are on an unprecedented spending spree that, along with reducing government revenue, is leading the country to financial ruin.

    I have been a lifelong Republican. I have never voted for a Democrat in a presidential election. But, the party has left me. I can't believe the road the Republican party and its leadership has gone down. What a sad, sad episode in American history.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:21 a.m.

    Correction: I didn’t vote for Clinton when he first ran and never did I dream...

    jsf:
    “As for Trumps taped issues on fidelity, yes lets review Obama's speech where he concludes by saying "Now lets go get some pizza and..”

    Your sources?

    Facts first:
    It wasn’t pizza it was ribs. But more importantly Obama was recorded reading from his book about a conversation (when he was young-pre Michelle)—“Dreams of My Father,” where he was reporting what someone with him said.

    In contrast to what Trump said just 10 years ago (the same year he married Melania) and his numerous affairs and wives.

    Neither Clinton or Trump can measure up to the high quality husband Obama has been.

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:20 a.m.

    Gerald Elias (letter writer)

    "In 1988, the Democratic front-runner for the presidential nomination, Sen. Gary Hart of Colorado, withdrew from the race........Fast forward to 2018. Our current president is alleged to have had an extramarital affair..."

    You seemed to have "fast-forwarded" right past Bill Clinton.

    Hmmmm. I wonder why that is?

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:16 a.m.

    @ The Real Maverick

    "Just watch, as trumpers on this board will ignore Donald’s character, dodging the issue entirely, and attack the Clintons."

    Dude, the accusations of Trump's sexual transgressions are, to this point, just that....accusations. Clinton's sexual transgressions are factual and a matter of public record.

    Using accusations about Trump to call for his impeachment or resignation based on them is what is known as an "attack."

    Calling out Clinton's actions is simply stating fact.

    Do you not know the difference?

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:14 a.m.

    I don’t get why people think this Adair would matter. Trump is as self admitted serial cheater. He cheated on his first wife with his second wife and on his second wife with his current wife. If this actually mattered to rebulicans he would have never been elected to beginning n with. Integrity takes a backseat to winning and n politics.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:02 a.m.

    It should be obvious to everyone that trump support is unshakeable. Nothing the man has said or done, tweeted or lied about matters.

    He is the embodiment of the cult of personality used by so many third world dictators to convince the easily persuaded that he (almost never a she BTW) is the only thing between chaos and order.

    The country is in dire straits.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:01 a.m.

    "And contrary to Fox News and the continued lies she was not found guilty of any crimes." Actually, she lied to congress, Comey announced she had classified material on her personal server, on Huma's computer and Weiner's computer. Per Comey she was guilty but not prosecuted. Does not equate to not found guilty. She was not prosecuted for the crime. They are not the same as found not guilty. She would have had to go to court to be found not guilty.

    Per Comey's testimony before Congress, Hillary lied to Congress.

    Please go back and review what Joe and Mika had to say about Hillary's guilt. And other left leaning media at the time. They didn't let her off like democrats now. I will bet Joe and Mika would love to scrub their previous statements about Hillary's guilt.

    The next question is did she lie to the FBI? You know that same crime Flynn was indicted for. Not Russian collusion, lying to the FBI and not under oath. Oh that's right Hillary was interviewed but not sworn in by the FBI, if she lied she should be indicted also, like
    Flynn.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:39 a.m.

    MR.."Is Hillary NOT guilty of using an illegal email server? Is Hillary NOT guilty of sending and receiving confidential State secrets on that illegal email server?"

    Careful with this one Mr. Richards now that we "know"..no gossip. Mr. Porter handled the most secret of information without a clearance for a year. Same for Mr. Kushner, handled middle east secrets for a year with no clearance.

    Server pales in comparison.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:33 a.m.

    Mike Richards,
    "Is Hillary NOT guilty of using an illegal email server? Is Hillary NOT guilty of sending and receiving confidential State secrets on that illegal email server?"
    ____________________
    Considering the Republican overkill in trying to get something on Hillary Clinton, it's difficult if not impossible to know the extent of what wrongdoing she may have been involved in. But it's small stuff compared to Russian interests including business and hackers working behind the scenes to subvert the 2016 Presidential election. The American people are supposed to select their President, not Vladimir Putin. That may yet prove to be the single worst scandal in U.S. history.

    Why is Trump is so anxious to derail the Mueller investigation?

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:31 a.m.

    I didn’t vote for Clinton when he first
    did I dream Republicans would elect and defend such a man as Trump.

    Looking back:
    The investigation of Bill Clinton commenced in January 1994 investigating Whitewater and ended in December 1997, resulting in him lying to cover-up a consensual affair with an intern. (Note: the first investigator into Whitewater, Robert Fiske, determined there was no evidence after 6 mons of investigating after which Ken Starr was then appointed. He too found—after nearly 4 yrs—insufficient evidence to charge Clinton in Whitewater.

    Nobody has been more thoroughly investigated than the Clintons.

    To what end? So the Republicans could elect a man like Trump? Whose conflicts of interest, shady dealings, lack of transparency make the Clintons look like saints.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:29 a.m.

    As for Trumps taped issues on fidelity, yes lets review Obama's speech where he concludes by saying "Now lets go get some pizza and (sexually crude objectifying term for women)".

    Oh wait it's on tape. Where is that sanctimonious democrat assault based on character. Was it OK to accept Obama as president given what he said before being elected.

    I don't mind pointing out character flaws of Trump, but don't try to hold Obama up as a standard of morality. Only tyrannical governments and their supporting hordes hold leaders up as infallible.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:22 a.m.

    One poster here: nice try but you have not given any proof of your accusations.

    here's real proof. Clinto testified openly and freely in the Congress and never once invoked the 5th amendment, not once. Adn contrary to Fox News and the continued lies she was not found guilty of any crimes. And that was with the Republicans falsifying supposed facts and trying every trick in the book to get her smeared.

    Trump's lawyers don' want him to testify because they are afraid he won't get his stories straight. His lies are getting so overwhelming that we can't keep track of them, nor could he under oath. Over 2100 lies and counting.

    So if you posters bad mouth the Clintons as a way to "defend this sickening behavior by Trump" , you had better have real honest facts. Turn off Fox News, and educate yourself. These lies about Clinton have been proven false over and over again. But the radical right continues them. I wonder if you got your degrees from Trump University? How much did he pay to settle that dishonesty? Not as much as he just paid to silence the porn star right? Those are real facts.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:19 a.m.

    And now we have the recently released Rice email implying Obama, Bidden, Comey and Yeates met in the White House in collusion about Russia and their intent to withhold the information from the new president.

    Please character, not.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:17 a.m.

    It only matters when the sheeples ( non independent thinkers ) in this country take their marching orders from the mainstream press. All these issues didn't matter with the media when jfk and bubba clinton were in office, but now they magically matter with the trump presidency. And I love how this letter is full of the word allegations. I still remember the days when the leftists were big defenders of the accused, without evidence and conviction.

  • Fact Check Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:06 a.m.

    @airnaut "Clinton won by 3 million votes."

    Man, I really hate to break this to you. Hillary Clinton lost the election. I'm surprised your media sources haven't told you this.

  • What in Tucket Provo, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:01 a.m.

    Too bad the author used allegations not proven activities. From the drive by media we see article after article attacking Trump with a lot of smoke and mirrors, but not much proof. Just because someone said Trump did something doesn't mean it is true.
    On the other hand we have Bill Clinton a known rapist that was ok with the Democrats. And let's point out other people too. Oskar Schindler saved 1,000 Jews yet was a philanderer. Jimmy Carter had an impeccable character, yet who would want him for a president. Even Martin Luther King surely a great man had character flaws.
    I do have trouble believing anything the drive by media says as it seems there is a false story daily.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 9:55 a.m.

    Is Hillary NOT guilty of using an illegal email server? Is Hillary NOT guilty of sending and receiving confidential State secrets on that illegal email server? Was Andrew McCarthy wrong when he linked the Obama administration, Hillary as Secretary of State and Robert Mueller, the FBI director in the Uraniun One scandel in his Oct 17, 2017 National Review article?

    Jerry Zeifman fired Hillary Rodham from the Watergate investigation for dishonestly drafting a brief. Then there's "Cattlegate". There's Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones who have all testified against Hillary for intimidation. The Left pretends that whatever Hillary says is the absolute truth. That is pathetic.

    I could simply say that Obama is a liar. Some would say that I'm guilty of gossip. But, if I repeat Obama's words that every family in America would save $2,500 per year with ObamaCare, that Benghazi was caused by a video, or that the Fort Hood massacre was a "work place incident", then many on the Left would still claim that I'm gossipping because their ox is being gored.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 9:46 a.m.

    It turns voters off when President's character is questioned. But when it comes to governing... it doesn't matter (gasp). That's the way our founding fathers designed it (so one person's character doesn't matter).

    They knew all humans have flaws. They also knew all governments become corrupt if they let one person (King) rule by fiat. So they came up with Congress, and Judicial Branch (for oversight).

    With oversight from separate but "Equal" branches of government... it's impossible for one person to mess the whole thing up, if other branches do their job.

    That's why I didn't worry too much when it was revealed that Bill Clinton had character flaws. Or even that he didn't tell the truth to the other branches. It was comforting they were practicing oversight, and caught him, and it didn't destroy the government.

    Same with Nixon.

    Same with Trump.

    I decided I couldn't vote for Trump (because of his character). But I didn't panic when he won. Because I knew Congress, Generals, Judicial overview, 4th estate, etc, keep him in check.

    Same if Clinton had won. Her character flaws wouldn't' destroy everything.

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    Feb. 13, 2018 9:07 a.m.

    "As for bragging to Billy Bush on that edited tape, my recollection is that he was making a point that claimed that some women often lost any sense of morality when accosted by men, if they were very wealthy."

    Really? *That* was your takeaway from the Access Hollywood video, Gildas? A social commentary on the morality of women interacting with wealthy men? Words fail.

    "Allegations are used by too many as if they were facts. Some people don’t seem to know the difference between gossip and truth."

    Mike, it's truly obnoxious to see people who routinely trafficked in Obama Birther and Muslim conspiracies right here in the DN suddenly hide behind "allegations" and "gossip" as a defense against Trump's self-evident mendacity.

    My initial response to this letter was that character indeed no longer matters. Having seen some of the responses, I think the problem is deeper than that.

    It isn't a matter of caring about character anymore. We do care.

    It's a matter of turning a blind eye to evidence that would normally force people to confront a dissonance between what they claim to believe and what they actually vote for.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:51 a.m.

    It should. But here we are, making excuses for the Access Hollywood tape and forgetting to mention the hush money altogether.
    Character matters. Trump hasn't got it.

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:47 a.m.

    @Fact Check - Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:13 a.m.

    @The Real Maverick "This November will see a huge blue tidal wave."

    You said this about the last election.

    ========

    and,
    Clinton won by 3 million votes.

    FYI -- Congress is not selected by electoral college delegates...

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:46 a.m.

    Mike Richards says:
    "Allegations are used by too many as if they were facts. Some people don’t seem to know the difference between gossip and truth. Some people have twisted right and wrong to the point that they think that they’re doing a service by spreading gossip. They don’t care if it is planted. They don’t care if someone is paying “leakers” to divert attention, just like the circus shill. All they care about is showing low character - their own by spreading gossip."

    You must be talking about the campaign that YOU, faux news, and reich wing radio have been using against Hillary for 25 years, right? Right?

  • Thomas Jefferson Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:41 a.m.

    Character only matters when its a dem running. In the GOP character is just a buzzword they throw around. Its like how they use 'fiscal responsibility' and 'freedom'. Just marketing and they are great at marketing. Governing? Not so much.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:35 a.m.

    I hate to have say this but character is not as important in evaluating a candidate. Much of it is due to voter fatigue leading to a cynical fatalism that holds that politicians by nature are corrupt. The best you can do is support the corrupt unprincipled candidate who most closely reflects your views.

    Not a pretty picture of our times, is it?

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:34 a.m.

    Gildas - LOGAN, UT "Where to start?"

    I have an idea, try with the truth. It seems to have eluded you. The women he references on the tape who lose their morals to celebrity are women he claims he sees and immediately starts kissing, and they even let you.....you know the end.

    So Mr. Richards, a man brags publicly for "years" about affairs, and sexual misconduct (tv, radio, print) and then a linty of women come forward and say yup, that's what he did to me in private (what he said), and it's gossip? I don't think so. I think it's a reasonable conclusion until he can prove otherwise.

    Here's what gossip looks like Mr. Richards..I can't wait until Hope Hicks gets to tell her story about her time with Trump. Gossip, sure. Untrue, maybe not.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:20 a.m.

    The US public decided that character was not an issue during the Clinton administration. His impeachment was followed by a collective apathy. As long as the economy is moving along, we seem to be complacent. The only time character matters now is when the opposite party's candidate is exposed.

  • Fact Check Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:13 a.m.

    @The Real Maverick "This November will see a huge blue tidal wave."

    You said this about the last election.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:01 a.m.

    While I agree with many of the comments here, I think the problem goes much deeper than this. I generally avoid Facebook, but since right now I spend so much time away from my family, I use it to stay connected with my immediate and extended family - what's going on.

    This morning their is a Facebook survey going on who the "best" first lady was. What bothers me most is the debate quickly devolved away from their individual contributions but to who was the most gorgeous lady. More along the lines of who was the best arm-candy for the President. Who was the "prettiest".

    This shows just how low we value the contributions of our women. Mrs. Bush fought for better education for all kids. Mrs. Obama fought for better nutrition. Mrs. Reagan was a great example of elegance - but hardly "hot". These women were more than arm-candy - and had their own issues they promoted, or brought to the public conscience.

    The saddest thing is these arguments ran along party lines, by mostly women who were in their Senior years. Women objectifying other women... Trump isn't the problem folks. He is the symptom. We aren't valuing people based on their character.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 7:55 a.m.

    Where to start?

    From the Twentieth Century many presidents seem to have often had actual adulterous relationships during their terms of office. I think we can go back to the Eisenhower and Kennedy presidencies as well as to Clinton and others.

    In contrast I don't know that the Donald had, regularly or otherwise, adulterous relationships; if so with whom? At present he has better things to do and there is not one credible hint of scandal 'au courant'. We know about Clinton however and no complaints from Mrs C.

    As for bragging to Billy Bush on that edited tape, my recollection is that he was making a point that claimed that some women often lost any sense of morality when accosted by men, if they were very wealthy. His only example, referencing himself, based on the part of the tape that was shared during the 2015-16 election run-up, however, was one in which Mr Trump claimed he once made an advance on a married woman but that it was rejected.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 7:42 a.m.

    Allegations are used by too many as if they were facts. Some people don’t seem to know the difference between gossip and truth. Some people have twisted right and wrong to the point that they think that they’re doing a service by spreading gossip. They don’t care if it is planted. They don’t care if someone is paying “leakers” to divert attention, just like the circus shill. All they care about is showing low character - their own by spreading gossip.

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 7:14 a.m.

    GrainOfSalt - Draper, UT, isn't it interesting that your side has to always go to the argument: "Well Joey stole candy from the store, so it's OK that Bobby pulled a gun, killed two cashiers and also robbed the store."

    The sad part about the radical right is that they will attack others to defend the sickening daily behavior by this President. It get's old. It is dishonest, plain and simple. And children raised by parents who lack the moral fiber to show that this is wrong will have children that think behaving like Trump is OK. Good luck with that example.

    BTW, Clinton was impeached for his indiscretions. Oh and BTW, Clinton had a surplus budget too, after a Republican recession and deficit.

    I wonder why you didn't bring up Obama? I guess an honorable, decent and scandal less administration right before Trump isn't a valid counter point for the radical right. A class act President seems to be out of your arguments?

    President Obama was, and still is the one of the most admired men in the world. How about comparing that to the current world's ratings of Trump. Now that is an interesting comparison.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Feb. 13, 2018 7:09 a.m.

    On November 29, Senator Orrin Hatch tweeted this about President Trump, "To be fair, he’s the best President I’ve served “under” in terms of line of succession. If we’re talking best Presidents I’ve served alongside, that list would also include Lincoln, Reagan, and James K. Polk, who really knew how to command a room."

    First of all, I knew Hatch had been in the Senate for a long time but had no idea he served "alongside" Lincoln and Polk.

    Secondly, I am disturbed that Hatch made these this statement knowing what he and the rest of the country knows about President Trump:
    - That he openly admitted to sexually assaulting women and bragged about getting away with it "because he's a star"
    - That he claimed to be a billionaire and it has been documented that he made part of his money by bilking small business subcontractors from money rightfully owed them for services rendered
    - That he disparaged 17 different intelligence agencies within our government by claiming their reports that Russia interfered with our 2016 election were 'fake news'

    And so many more reasons that show me that character apparently means nothing to at least one prominent Senator.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:46 a.m.

    What are ya comparing him to. Kennedy? I compare stuff to, I a girl watcher, I think I'm an alright guy. So to me, he that is without sin, ya know. Let's not talk religion. I've compared that too. I won't go their.

  • Lew Elton Jeppson Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:33 a.m.

    And Trump even bragged about the ease with which he could get in any woman's pants. What a role model! And this does not bother the religious right at all!

    No character doesn't matter any more.

  • The Real Maverick Spanish Fork, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:04 a.m.

    Actually, most believe character still counts. Look at Donald’s terrible approval ratings. He’s the most despised president on record. And it gets worse by the day. The problem is about 30 percent of the country doesn’t care about character. Donald could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and they’d have no problem. These people are lost. They merely live to troll, agitate, and watch Fox News. Just watch, as trumpers on this board will ignore Donald’s character, dodging the issue entirely, and attack the Clintons.

    Trumpers, lets be clear, anytime you have to bring up the Clinton’s to defend Donald, your argument has already been lost. It’s a losing argument. This November will see a huge blue tidal wave. Who knows if it’ll mean anything as long as Russia can hack our elections and Donald does zero to stop it?

  • Copybook Headings Draper, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 4:59 a.m.

    Character as a litmus test for the presidency stopped mattering when the Clintons moved into the Whitehouse. It was the MSM that caused us to stop caring too.

  • Karen R. Houston, TX
    Feb. 13, 2018 4:33 a.m.

    @ Impartial7

    "...70% of Americans do not approve of Trump."

    That number has recently decreased nearly 10 points just in response to a few more dollars in some people's pockets.

    More encouraging are recent polls showing that white women, educated and uneducated, are leaving his camp.

  • Nunn24 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 2:18 a.m.

    Mr. Elias - Yes, character matters. But so do things like intellectual honesty, reasonableness, fairness, and due process. Many Democrats have proven that they are willing to lie about Trump for pure, political gain for their party and its personnel. The accusation during the campaign by the woman on the airplane, for instance, was ridiculously devoid of credibility compared to that of a fellow traveler who claimed to have witnessed her interchange with Trump first-hand and thoroughly challenged its veracity. The large number of Trump's accusers does not translate to veracity; rather, it simply is commensurate with the extremely high degree of motivation on the part of the Democrats to hang on to and regain political power.

  • GrainOfSalt Draper, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 1:16 a.m.

    Criticizing Republican support of Trump while having their own sordid history of support for Clinton seems like the usual double standard we see every day from Democrats. I don't think character has mattered in politics for a while now. Let's be real. Unfortunately.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 9:30 p.m.

    The two political parties to whom we have surrendered our God-given and Patriot-won rights of self governance presented us with two candidates of questionable repute. The people made a choice between those candidates using the Constitutionally appointed electoral system. Mr. Trump became Mr. President even though it was a matter of public record that he dishonored his marriage vows and said things no gentleman should say. His opponent was publicly known as the leader of the "Bimbo Eruptions" team from her husband's presidential campaigns. That made her equally morally reprehensible in the minds of many of our citizens, both candidates having shown disrespect to women.

    It was the political party system that gave us morally-flawed candidates, but their flaws allowed us to judge them on their political positions instead of their perceived goodness or lack therof. Had the D party presented us with a candidate of high moral fibre it would perhaps be reasonable to now claim the high ground and criticize the winner for his alleged sins. But most of the President's supporters like him for what he is not more than we dislike what he is, so we are immune to complaints.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 12, 2018 8:54 p.m.

    Win at any cost.... that's what the prevailing rule says. Ignore all else so long as your side wins.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 8:17 p.m.

    " So far, popular opinion, right or wrong, has determined that character doesn’t matter a whit."

    No, 70% of Americans do not approve of Trump. Character doesn't matter to the GOP minions that continue to blindly follow him, no matter how reprehensible he behaves.