@LDS Liberal 5:33Re: "Just like Trump, His followers are
chicken-hawks"... "None of them ever served"...---Name-calling aside, your assumptions are not always true. Just because you
assume something, doesn't make it true.Lots of Republicans
serve in military. You are not the only person to serve in the military. So you
can get off that high-horse.Google and read these"Military
Poll: Troops Backing Trump By 3-to-1 Margin Over Clinton"..."Republicans join military 2-to-1 over Democrats"..."Veterans are voting Republican" (Washington Post)...Lessons learned...-Assumptions aren't reality-Nobody likes
war.-Democrats aren't the only people who serve in US Military==@Irony Guyre: "The Trumpist
warmongers"..."preemptive attacks"...---Can you
show us a comment that called for a preemptive attack? I didn't see one.
But I didn't read all the comments.An attack on NK would get a
response from China. But nobody's advocating preemptive attacks. Even
Trump. The fire and fury comment was if NK follows through on their threats.A military response is appropriate If NK follows through on their
Ronald Reagan was going to start WWIII according to the media and political
enemies. What really happened? End of the USSR.We're in this
situation because previous president thought they could play nice and NK would
behave. Only until they got what they wanted. And now because of this
stupidity we are faced with a nuclear armed NK. A mess that was dumped into
Trumps lap.The question is, what constitutes an act of war? Many
preemptive strikes have been made in the past but somehow this option is somehow
unthinkable because of the hatred of Trump?
Assuring NK of their destruction in case of war does not preclude diplomacy.
I believe it goes back to Jimmy Carter making a deal with North Korea, enabling
them to develop nuclear power- as long as it wasn't used for nuclear
weaponry. When it was, in fact, ultimately used for developing such powers of
destruction seemingly nothing was done about it.The readiness of
NK, or its dictator, to repeatedly threaten immediate nuclear aggression shows
that not all are equal in their sense of responsibility. At least in the Cold
War it was recognized that it was not wise for anyone to start a nuclear war,
and America and the old Soviet Union never did that. For the sake of dealing
with irresponsible dictators, when diplomacy fails, there would seem to be a
need for a promise of speedy retaliation in kind. Sad for the people under the
control of dictators.
As I sit on my chair made in China, eating food from China with my spoon made in
China, I scratch my head and wonder why China wants to let NoKo kill me.It's my fault for buying Chinese stuff that supports NoKo. I
should have known better than to expect a free Chinese lunch.
2bits..I don't want war with NK. I don't want war with anybody. I
always advocate for diplomacy, and sometimes it works. But when it doesn't
work for 32 years... when do you expose other options?Is war really
an option, and has it ever really been, or is North Korea a unique situation?
North Korea has always had the capacity to rain massive destruction on South
Korea and our military. Mass casualties is the reality of a
military option. If attacked it's always the reasonable response
regardless of the side your on. Loose lips and bravado are the
choice of the ignorant. Remember right after Trump blustered, North Korea
called his bluff (Guam) and nothing but more bluster. The danger is the
subject of Michael Gerson article today..miscalculation, and mistakes.Kennedy talking about World War I "They somehow seemed to tumble into war,
he said, through stupidity, individual idiosyncrasies, misunderstandings, and
personal complexes of inferiority and grandeur."Sound at all
familiar? Do you really think war is an option?
The Trumpist warmongers among you forget that a preemptive attack on NK is an
attack on China. The Chinese have made this clear. Are you prepared
to go to war with the world's other superpower? Do you want your children
to die in a fiery holocaust? Seriously? This man Trump must be
removed from office in a constitutional manner, and it must be done quickly.
North Korea has already won two reasons. They know we will not start a war
because of the mass casualties that will come from it and their leader does not
care about the people of his country.
Just like Trump, His followers are chicken-hawks.B-I-G talk
about war, Rare to None of them ever served.Always sending
someone else to do it...for them.Walk the Talk.
Nobody wants war but Kim Jong Un is a bully and eventually diplomacy fails with
bullies. NK has greatly advanced their nuclear program during the last several
decades of diplomacy. Human rights abuses are still rampant.The one
thing liberals fear even more than nuclear war is that Trump will get Kim to
back down and be a good boy.
I'm sorry but supporting this President in this situation is
unthinkable.None of the comparisons made are even remotely
applicable, with maybe the exception of Cuba in the 60's, and then Russia
had put missiles 50 miles off our coast. The existential threat
Trumps ranting poses is unprecedented in modern American history. If they
simply continue to shout at one another so be it, but Trump has indicated he
will attacked because of verbal threats. That is the death warrant for tens of
thousands of humans, and there is no moral justification for that.
@ szsmith"This is shameful. Your paper is so poisoned with hatred of
the President that you are willing to persuade readers to think of Trump as more
dangerous than Kim Jong-un."Nowhere does the Deseret News claim
to hate the President, nor do they make the claim that 'Trump is more
dangerous than Kim Jong Un'. Apologies for knocking over your straw man
while you were prepping to do battle with him.Trump's
'fire and fury' statements were childish, unnecessary, and completely
lacking in any form of diplomacy. They're not statements an adult makes.
They're not the statements the leader of a country makes save for a few
ironic examples - Kim Jong Un, Roderigo Duterte, and Donald Trump. Strange that
Trump has also publicly praised both the others I listed.
It sounds like there is diplomacy being tried but this issue seemed inevitable.
Kim Jong Un, and, well, trump. And he likes the role of mouthy tough guy
wannabe. I imagine this will come to be a defining moment in history, and
his role in it. We aren't prepared for what he is going to cause.
By show of hands; how many of you nuclear launch button pushers, so anxious for
a show down with North Korea, are willing to commit your sons and daughters to
the fray?That's what I thought.
@Vermonter"And still not one shot has been shot at an enemy, not one
bomb has been dropped on an enemy."Well you kind of have to have
this argument before any shots are fired.@Mike Richards"When a nation, such as North Korea is bent on war"Are
they really interested in attacking other countries (and getting destroyed in
response) or is it just interested in making it so that nobody would ever want
to topple their regime? @2bits"When he made the strong
red-line statement to Assad? Stating there would be military consequences if it
looked like they were going to use chemical weapons again?"If
Syria had the capacity to nuke someone then yeah I'd have considered it
problematic. What would they have done in response if Obama acted militarily? Go
into a war they already have on several fronts?
@ Utah Girl ChroniclesYou know who else had a fawning media? Obama.
We have the BEST generals and the BEST sec of defense since the first gulf war.
That much is not up for debate. Also, unlike Obama, Trump listens to his
generals. He trusts them. From the start Trump gave General Mattis full control
of the military and sec Tillersen full control of state. Trump is a smart
business man because he always hired the best and he followed their advise. He
does the same with matters of foreign policy and war. Smart leaders or coaches
always hire the best assistants and listen to them. Poor leaders micro manage
(LBJ and Obama).
The Kim dynasty cares about one thing above all else... their hold on power.
That doesn't happen if they actually attack anyone because the
counterattack would ruin them. So why are they escalating their nuclear arsenal?
Because if they get to a point where attacking them would have a devastating
cost in return, then nobody will attack them and they'll be able to do
pretty much whatever they want in their own country. The threat of conventional
weapons against Seoul (plus any implications with China and Russia/USSR
involvement) has traditionally been enough of a deterrent to thoughts of regime
change but it'd be even more difficult if they get to a position where they
could nuke Seoul and Tokyo in response to any strike.
@ szmith"Count your blessings that the 32 year old dictator with
access to ICBMs isn't your president because you wouldn't be able to
speak out against him without winding up in a 'work' camp."Trump and the whole alt-right would be happy sending the entire
mainstream media off to "work camp". If Trump somehow escapes
impeachment after the Mueller investigation is completed, look for a very angry
Trump to push the pendulum in that direction. The only media
worthwhile in Trump's estimation is a fawning media. You know, like the
media Kim Jong-Un has. If Trump thought he could get away with playing "I
Did It My Way" twenty-four hours a day on state-run Trump media, you could
be sure we would already be hearing that.
Trump is proof that only a lunatic thinks it is wise to threaten a dictator of
an unstable nation.
This is shameful. Your paper is so poisoned with hatred of the President that
you are willing to persuade readers to think of Trump as more dangerous than Kim
Jong-un. It's dangerous to spend more time criticizing, trashing, and
questioning President Trump than the dictator of North Korea. Count your
blessings that the 32 year old dictator with access to ICBMs isn't your
president because you wouldn't be able to speak out against him without
winding up in a "work" camp.
Trump is taking America Back!To the 1950'sand a war in
Koreaand air raid sirensand bomb sheltersand duck and cover
drills is schools
Too Trump-haters....Did you call Obama insane? When he made the
strong red-line statement to Assad? Stating there would be military
consequences if it looked like they were going to use chemical weapons again?After that Russia finally stepped in and offered to remove Syria's
chemical weapons (which they didn't do, because Syria has used them on
their population since then). At least they pretended to get rid of their
chemical weapons. That's more than we would have gotten if Obama had not
made the red-line statement.Obama made some intense statements and
sanctions when Russia invaded Ukraine. Was he insane?Did you call
Kennedy "Insane" when he made very strong statements to Russia about
America not tolerating a nuclear Cuba? Even activating a military response? My
wife's family had to move to Missouri during this conflict because he was
in the reserve and was called to fight.Was he insane? It worked.If making a strong statement makes you insane.. then Kennedy and Obama
were insane too. They both threatened military consequences if something
didn't change.Read some of Kennedy's threats to Russia if
they didn't remove the missiles.
This suggestion would not even be necessary if we had a rational, stable,
knowledgeable, experienced president in the White House.
The current potus has proven he does not know the meaning of the word diplomacy,
nor how to spell it.These are, again, frightening times for our
country.How must the young people of America and the world, feel about
@ Vermonter"I want our enemies to believe that Trump is
insane."The problem is insanity is not an affectation, it is a
definable psychological condition that begins with mental instability.It's not "insane" to think Trump's main fascination with
North Korea is how Kim Jong Un does all those wonderful things with flash cards
at all his military celebrations.That's the extent of
Trump's deep thinking. The world constantly sees daily examples of
Trump's mental instability. Having a fake cover of Time magazine made up
and on display at many of Trump's properties only proves Trump prefers
living apart from reality. That's not an act.
To all you "push the button" people out there. It's not that
simple. China said today that if North Korea strikes first they will remain on
the sidelines if America responds. But, if the US strikes first, they will align
with North Korea. Then, Russia will align with China. Trump, and most GOP
leaders have never served in the military and lost friends and loved ones.
Escalating this situation is not just dealing with North Korea- it's about
WWIII. Wake up- Trump has zero grasp of geopolitics and war. Nor does he care to
learn. Trump could potentially cause the death of millions, if not billions, of
people due to his ignorance and arrogance.
em...I believe Nicky Haley our UN embassador got a huge consensus with Russia
and China and Japan and all the rest of the nations in support of standing
against North Korea. Perhaps the writer of this article missed that part? It
happened a few days ago. Also The US is dealing with a person unlike any
dictator on earth. This North Korean dictator lives in a cave -- so to speak --
isolated from the rest of the world. This dictator murders and starves his own
people. He uses the money given to him from other countries which is intended
for food and instead he uses it on nuclear bombs. What sort of mad dog does
that? So what does he want and does the US cave to nuclear blackmail for the
future and give the chubby man everything he wants while a gun is held to our
head? Iran is watching and if it works for North Korea you can believe Iran will
do the same. In WWII there were those in the US that argued that we should just
give Hitler what he wants and be done with it. No war. With that thinking there
would be a Nazi SS flag flying over Washington DC today. Thankfully FDR was
smarter than that and he understood how to deal with a mad dog.
The Trump administration hasn't even appointed an ambassador to our ally,
South Korea, yet.What makes you think the Trump administration is
even remotely equipped to have diplomatic relations with the rogue state of
North Korea? The incredibly incompetent Trump administration can't even
properly implement diplomatic relations with South Korea.Look at
what Trump's chief strategist had to say about world politics:“Lenin . . . wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too.
I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s
establishment.” - Steve BannonPresident Trump, of course, has
a vested interest in creating a YUGE diversion that will deflect attention AWAY
from the Russia probe. And what better distraction can there be than
thermo-nuclear war?Let's face it folks . . . When Republicans
win, America LOSES.
"Fire and Fury"?"Locked and Loaded"?Donald
Trump is a horrible reality TV Actor, and an even worse 'so-called'
President.Trouble is -- this is not TV, nuclear war is not
reality TV.and Kim Jon Un is not FAKE news!This is the
real deal folks, and he have a in-fit POTUS who lives and makes his
decisions based on 'Alternative Facts' and 'Conspiracy
Theories'!25th the 45th
@Marxist.I "liked" your comment at 11:17am. I hope the leaders of
North Korea read your post and lots of things like it in the American press. I
want our enemies to believe that Trump is insane. I want them to believe that
if they push too far, their kooshy, lazy, idle life in the relative lap of
luxury will be over. There is great value in having an unpredictable president
when dealing with people like the leaders of North Korea.Cool, calm
and measured, and predictable, like everyone believed the previous occupant of
the White House was, does not work with North Korea.Reagan was a
madman. Bush was a cowboy. Trump is insane. Nearly half of America believed
these things in those days. These kinds of perceptions make evil people in 3rd
world countries pause and hesitate.
I believe President Trump is insane, and should be removed from office under the
25th amendment at the earliest possible date.If anything your
editorial is too tame.If I had a missionary in South Korea, or
anywhere in the part of the world, I would be really worried. Keep
in mind that part of the world is full of nukes, and an accident could set off a
conflagration which would pollute the world. We are in grave
Let’s have some historical perspective here.We’ve been
trying – through diplomacy – for decades to reign in North
it’s never worked.I have grave doubts that Trump
is the right man for the job in our current situation, but perhaps some genuine
fear of catastrophe may get China (the only nation that can control North Korea)
to finally exert some real influence and check this dangerous escalation by
NK.But as other have said – a pre-emptive large scale strike
is folly. Mark Bowden recently wrote a piece in The Atlantic on this. It’s
chilling but worth understanding.
It's not in keeping with my country's values to attack anyone until we
are attacked (of course, unless you're Dick Cheney).I say wait,
keep the sanctions pressure on, and see what happens. I do not want the
pre-emptively vaporized bodies of millions of Korean children on my conscience.
Is that the same diplomacy used by our previous presidents as North Korea
developed nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles? Repeating a failed scheme and
expecting a different result is the definition of .....
"Even this might not work, but the events of 72 years ago make it clear that
all avenues should be tried before unleashing fire and fury."Thank you.
Look at his tweets -- Trump shoots first, and aims later.He
throws mud [nukes in this case], and sees what sticks.No
fore-thought.No plans! [...um, that should be apparent to everyone by
now!]The only hope we have is that the nuclear codes require correct
grammar and punctuation.Millions of lives are a bargaining chip for
the world's unluckiest gambler. What could possibly go wrong?
Trump has risen to a calling of being the spokesman in this age of
irrationality. Trump as taken center ring in a cirrus promoted by loud
egoistical barkers like Alex Jones, Michael Savage, Rush Limbaugh and Sean
Hannity who mesmerize and captivate their audience by making big promises and
grandiose assertions. We live in a nation where people believe you can lose
weight by eating, with $19.99 you can free yourself from all kitchen drudgery
and you can have a weed free lawn. Yes sir, with a single dollar you can win
millions. If you just enroll into my university my hand picked instructors with
teach you my secrets of success. Believing life doesn't involve work and
compromise or that talk is a solution is as irrational has believing blaming
others can remove your own culpability and gullibility. What a
fitting allegory. After all, it was the United States that developed and used
nuclear weapons. It's disenfranchised voters who created Trump. Both of
these creations have become monsters that have the power to destroy us.
@SMcloud ,Re: "I am afraid that President Trump's bluster could
end up killing millions of people. It's not worth it."...---What if it works? Is it "worth it"?What if China finally
convinces NK to change direction?Even if it works... Democrats would
criticize Trump. It's becoming an obsession.I don't like
it either. Doesn't seem like America I know. But what we have been
doing under the Obama, Bush and Clinton Administrations hasn't worked. Why
continue doing the same thing and expecting different results?I hope
Trump doesn't do something rash, but I hope he does something different.
Because what we have been doing for 30 years is obviously not working. Do you
agree?Can you acknowledge that what we have been doing isn't
working? And that it allowed them to get a weapon they can use not only against
us, but against their neighbors (which would draw us into a war)?That's pretty obvious. I'm wondering if any Trump-haters can
acknowledge that what we have been doing isn't working.I
realize it could make things worse. But Diplomacy alone wasn't
working.What if it works?What if China convinces NK to
back down now?
There is a wide canyon between using Diplomacy and saying things like
"North Korea had best not make any more threats to the United States .They
will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen."Remember the "fire and fury" in Nagasaki and Hiroshima? What should
the world take Trumps words to mean?Maybe it would be wise to look
in that canyon.Remember people. War, bombs and killing should be
the last resort. Don't ya think?After all, we are the United
States of America and the most powerful country on Earth. The world expects us
and needs us to act like it.
"Fire and Fury"? Locked and Loaded"? Rather than respond in a
thoughtful and measured tone, we get the POTUS lounging around in his pajamas at
his country club, puffing out his chest, and sending out tweets that indicate he
has watched too many old Clint Eastwood movies.
Diplomacy hasn't worked for republicans for some time.They
really don't believe in it. They like a more aggressive, preemptive
bullying.Trump on Thursday thanked Russian President Vladimir Putin
for expelling American diplomats from Russia. “I want to thank him because
we’re trying to cut down our payroll, and as far as I’m concerned
I’m very thankful that he let go of a large number of people because now
we have a smaller payroll,” Trump told reporters at his golf club in
Bedminster, while on yet another vacation.Of course the usual war
hawks, who have never served, love this tough guy nonsense, line in the sand,
rhetoric. Can't we just have Trump and Kim, Allstar wrestle
this fight. Nope, republican like wars, especially the ones they start.
Eventually China will step in and solve our problem with North Korea....in
exchange for Taiwan.
No preemptive strikes! North Korea talks big but they are interested in
surviving. I am afraid that President Trump's bluster could end
up killing millions of people. It's not worth it.
We have a relentless self-promoter at the helm who wants to convince the world
he is not an amateur. Trump's credibility is rightfully being questioned.
The White House is strained by constant staff in-fighting. We are in a situation
today where USA citizens are being told what to do in the event they are
nuked.Trump has no understanding of history nor any intellectual
curiosity. The people in South Korea realize their fate may be determined by a
former reality TV star who owned a series of beauty pageants. They remember how
Trump always bragged how "easy" it would be to solve massive
problems.That is not a comforting thought.
Re: "Use diplomacy before unleashing 'fire and fury' on North
Korea"...---I don't like the 'fire and fury' talk
either. But how many years have we been using diplomacy? And has it worked to
keep them from getting to this point? No.President Obama used
diplomacy with NK - and they made huge progress in their nuclear weapons during
that time.President Bush used diplomacy - He negotiated agreement to
dismantle their nuclear weapons program, but they didn't follow through on
it. And instead expanded their nuclear weapons program.President
Clinton used diplomacy - and still they ramped up their nuclear weapons
program.At what point to we acknowledge diplomacy alone is not
working?Do we wait until there are ZERO good options left?We're almost there you know.I don't want war with NK. I
don't want war with anybody. I always advocate for diplomacy, and
sometimes it works. But when it doesn't work for 32 years... when do you
expose other options?America needs to make sure NK knows we will
defend ourselves if they continue hissing out threats against our people.Radical people ((terrorist etc) don't respond to diplomacy. Sad
"Use diplomacy"? Has the author been paying attention for the last 50
years?No preemptive strikes, but the first time Kim even throws a
rock into the ocean, time to press the big red button.
North Korea has violated all sanctions placed on it by all nations worldwide.
It is an agressor nation. Trump would have been foolhardy to pretend that the
missile tests did not occur. He would have been foolhardy to pretend that the
nuclear tests did not occur. When a nation, such as North Korea is bent on war,
the best policy is to issue a clear and stern warning. North Korea has been
warned. If they persist, they will reap the whirlwind.Diplomacy may
have been useful before Bill Clinton signed an unratified treaty with North
Korea. North Korea saw him for the weakling that he was, knowing that he
didn't have the courage to stand before the Senate and sell that treaty to
the Senate. They knew that he would not stop them from doing whatever they
wanted to do. Now Trump, a very different President, has told them plainly that
America will no longer pretend that North Korea is abiding by the rules. The
line has been drawn. If North Korea does not back down immediately, the onus
will be on them.
Theodore Roosevelt said, "Speak softly and carry a big stick." Speak
softly.Big words from President Trump will hurt his cause.It would be fun to bomb North Korea. But we can't go around doing this
stuff. What if North Korea gets the idea (that we are entertaining), "We
need to bomb them before they bomb us." What if everyone had that idea?
Not just us and not just North Korea.
@ Vermonter"Trump is merely trying a different form of
diplomacy."Diplomacy isn't mimicking the rhetoric of an
unstable adversary. Trump couldn't tamp down a Wal-Mart parking lot
dispute. We are talking about the guy who thought the CNN WWE wrestling video
And still not one shot has been shot at an enemy, not one bomb has been dropped
on an enemy. Trump is merely trying a different form of diplomacy. Previous
"diplomacy" for the past 20+ years has been entirely ineffective at
stopping North Korea from developing nuclear weapons.
"President Trump’s promise of “fire, fury and frankly power the
likes of which this world has never seen before” was, unfortunately, a
further ratcheting of tensions."Ratcheted up? It started the
latest exchange. The Guam threat came after Trump threatened fire and fury.
Yesterday China, said if North Korea attacks America we'll
remain neutral. If America attacks North Korea we standby and will help North
Korea. Just where do you think Russia would fall in an armed conflict, nuclear
or not?"In our opinion: Use diplomacy before unleashing
'fire and fury'. In my opinion only a fool would unleash 'fire
and fury', and we have a President who thinks 3 million undocumented aliens
voted for Hillary...terrified yet?
"However, the worry always has been that one day an irrational leader might
obtain such weapons and act recklessly."Like Trump? Diplomacy is
not a tool that Trump's administration knows how to use. Only, bluster,
insults and bravado.
Wow, Diplomacy. What a concept.Here is the problem in today's
partisan environment and with the GOP in general. While I
acknowledge that this is "painting with a broad brush" we see a lot of
right leaning posters cheering on the "fire and fury" rhetoric. Not
all, but certainly many. They love the tough talk.The GOP is big on
funding and expanding our military and some are quick to want to utilize this
extremely expensive tool, probably in an effort to justify their votes to expand
military funding.The idea of getting into a war needs to be a last
resort. The words used need to be carefully measured. Trumps words
are seldom "measured" . And the "fire and fury" talk is