BYU's offense called a 'disgrace' and 'the worst' — and Cougar fans are worried

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  • UU Provo, UT
    Sept. 14, 2017 7:52 a.m.


    Wow, real it in a little. How did you get to this point? Maybe crack open the good book and spend a few minutes.

  • U West of I15, UT
    Sept. 14, 2017 7:48 a.m.


    You poor guy/girl I feel horribly bad for you. It really must be awful to have to come up with any lame excuse possible to explain loses.

    Although Utah flat out owned the might cougies in their own stadium a win is a win. It don't matter if it's 6 or 60 the W counts the same. We can sit here and say how Utah shot their self in the foot over and over and if they hadn't it would have been 56 to 3 Utah. All that don't matter though Utah won the cougies lost.

    You think you would be use to it by now 7 straight, 16 of 19 and overall domination. Sorry bluto face it Utah owns the mighty cougies in happy valley!

  • NightOwlAmerica SALEM, OR
    Sept. 13, 2017 10:03 p.m.

    Bluto - Sandy, UT

    ".....btw - I address issues with specificity and with facts. "

    More like distortedly specific facts.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 13, 2017 3:14 p.m.

    @why play.... I agree with your assessment that the line play has a lot to do with it. Byu was horrible at picking up the corner blitz... theQB had no chance many times. He did make some really unwise balls though while under pressure. But yes... the lines are too slow.

    I do think it's funny that some of my fellow byu fans just don't get how playing on a non-conference team is hurting recruiting. I admire that many of the y players are out there playing their guts out knowing they are not playing for any kind of championship ( national nor conference ) with only hopes of qualifying for a meaningless bowl. But a lot of players want more to play for. It's just a fact of life.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 11:55 a.m.


    I never said "he's going to come out guns a blazing". Not my terminology.
    But thanks for listening.

    There is indeed a new Sheriff in town and the Mighty Red Tailed Hawks squeaked out a 6 point victory and a 1 point win in the game before that.

    So much for Utah being light years ahead of BYU talent-wise.

    @Just Gordo...
    Favre himself said that he couldn't read a defense until Ty showed him how.

    Never equate Utah with an LSU. Ever.
    If BYU cannot compete with 2/3 of the Glorious P-5's, then how do you explain beating BYU by only 6 points when they handed "U" 3 interceptions?
    The arrogance of U fans is astonishing. Utah is at the same level of BYU. No better no worse.

    A duel Inferiority/Superiority Complex is quite the sight to behold.

    @Spokie Ute

    Me, Inferiority complex U say.
    That would be U fans trolling every BYU article and shouting
    WE P-5...We P-5.
    False Bravado is hilarious!

    btw - I address issues with specificity and with facts.
    180 Pac-12 championships since Utah joined the Pac.
    Eccles U has won 3.

  • Central Texan Buda, TX
    Sept. 13, 2017 11:35 a.m.

    Whatever is going to happen this season needs to happen over the next four games. Improved offensive production against Wisconsin and being in the game, then wins against Utah State, Boise State, and Mississippi State.

  • rslutefan Gilbert, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2017 11:22 a.m.

    It's a combination of a lot of things not the least of which is having the public try and vote on the primary culprit. A talented offensive line can't seem to provide adequate pass protection or run blocking. There isn't enough consistency in the play calling to establish either. The QB is unable to go thru progressions and the inconsistent moments of accurate passes are equally met with untimely drops. RBBC isn't producing a consistent runner.

    All that said, LSU and Utah both have very talented defenses and strong history of such. BYU doesn't have a sufficient set of skill position personnel to compete effectively with the top half to 2/3rds of most P5 conferences. However, they probably could at least be competitive with the bottom 1/3 of teams in several of these P5 conferences. BYU football is the equivalent of a mid-major. The MWC is perfect expect that BYU wants more money. But 6-7 million from ESPN doesn't match the 25-30 mm the P5 teams are getting. But even a ton of money wouldn't completely change BYU's fortunes. A lot of it is personnel and non-football factors. I don't believe that the primary struggle is due to coaching. They have talented coaches.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 11:06 a.m.

    Strom, your point A and B about Green Bay are correct. That actually is what happened. Ask Favre. He's on record that Detmer taught him a lot and helped him a lot. Why do you think Detmer stuck in the NFL for as long as he did? Vick had his best years with Detmer as his backup.

    That said, the Y offense better find themselves, quickly.

  • Rick for Truth Provo, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 10:58 a.m.

    The current BYU offense ranks in the bottom 25 teams in the nation. Ranks the third worse disappointing team by the sports media. I have to go back to pre-Edwards era to find a team with as bad an offense production as the 2017 team. That said what can be done? Change to the shotgun or pistol. Change to a new QB. Stop running up the middle, a complete waste of downs. More screens, passes to backs, slant runs. Go for more yards on first down. Don't be in a hurry, use up some clock time, we are not scoring, but then the other teams offense is off the field. Of course with our current QB throwing numerous interceptions that may not matter.

  • Stringer Bell Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 10:30 a.m.

    Hoosier87: "If, and I mean a big if, if he could complete passes, the run game would open up. You've got Trinnaman that runs a 4.3 and he can't throw him the ball. That's not P5 talent? Shumway has a 38 inch vertical, that's not P5 talent? Bushman is an NFL tight end for sure!"

    Trinaman and Shumway can't run good routes, can't catch, and Shumway is slow. If it was a jumping contest perhaps Shumway is P5 talent. Bushman is decent to date, but a little early to call him NFL talent.

  • robo Top, IL
    Sept. 13, 2017 9:59 a.m.

    BYU has one problem and one only - the qb. Receivers are open, and Mangum just isn't seeing them (aside from the last two drives against the Utes). It's obvious he just isn't the guy. I love the new offense; we just need a qb that can run it. We'll see what happens once Detmer gets one of his guys in the next year or two. Hopefully he can recruit someone that has a mind for the game like he did. Taysom and Tanner both couldn't, and BYU has suffered for it.

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 9:53 a.m.


    Weren't you one of several fans telling us all off season to "be afraid, very afraid" as well as, "there's a new sheriff in town, and he's going to come out guns a blazing", not to mention, "the pendulum has shifted"? Yes, yes I think you were. You can "boast" until the Big 12 doesn't call, again, but the fact remains, byu has only been close in these games because Utah continues to try and give the game away, with lack of a consistent offense, and penalties. Don't worry, I'm sure next year Utah will blow byu out with the new offense more implimented, and with Huntley only getting better, pending any injuries. 7 in a row, let's make it 8 at RES 2018!

  • Woodworker Highland, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 9:49 a.m.

    1. Thanks to Henry Drummond and estreetshuffle for fair and encouraging things to say.
    2. Taking polls to determine by "popularity" what is or is not working is at least innacurate and
    worse, an inappropriate use of journalism.
    3. To all the journalists and "fans" who want to put disrespectful labels on teams or players, I
    would invite you to stop it. You don't want people labeling you; don't do it to others.
    4. It's true that BYU and the U football teams have not yet reached their potential. But I don't
    know of any individual or group that has.
    5. When people are going through hard times, that's an opportunity to lift and encourge
    them. Labeling, judging, (especially by those who have never played college football),
    arguing, belittling, etc. do not solve problems. Real fans "cheer" for their teams, their
    families, their and friends. Go Courgars! Go Utes!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 9:30 a.m.

    BlueHusky - "Enough about BYU joining a conference. They won't do it and shouldn't do it. Conference membership has nothing to do with performance. BYU has beaten every PAC12 team at one time or another."

    BYU has not beaten USC. The correct sentence is "Utah has beaten every PAC12 team".

    Cougar fans are calling for a conference because independence offers no excitement after the first loss. Six years in a row. That gets old.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Sept. 13, 2017 9:29 a.m.

    @ Henry

    "There really wasn't any one thing that went wrong for BYU. It was literally a case of not being able to get everything working right on the same play. "

    You are absolutely correct!

    I think that the talent is there, but every group is falling short of what they should be doing.

    Except on defense, aside from the DBs playing too far off the WRs (they always do) the D is doing a really good job.

    Replacing the QB will do nothing, the OL has the talent but isn't in sync, the WRs need to free up and catch what comes their way, the RBs might be better but why was our tune-up LSU?

    Seriously need fall camp again!

    That being said, I think BYU will turn it on shortly, unfortunately just after it matters.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 13, 2017 9:03 a.m.


    I watched a tape of the game last night. There really wasn't any one thing that went wrong for BYU. It was literally a case of not being able to get everything working right on the same play. There were several plays where everything went right but the WR dropped the ball. On other plays they did everything right but Utah's line was in the passing lanes and tipped the ball. Sometimes they got someone wide open deep but the OL missed an assignment and Tanner had to make the through while running from an unblocked rusher. Sounds like BYU's Offense needs to go through fall camp again.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Sept. 13, 2017 8:56 a.m.

    Bluto - Sandy, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 8:10 a.m.

    Is there anything more hilarious than Ute trolls endlessly obsessing on all things BYU and boasting of their own superiority?
    Yes, actually there is. Some guy name Bluto (who's screen name speaks volumes); who worries more about what Utah fans think than what his own team is doing. Who constantly has to fuel up the time machine to make his program seem relevant. Talk about hilarious and an inferiority complex. Good Grief.

  • estreetshuffle Window Rock, AZ
    Sept. 13, 2017 8:46 a.m.

    Fan immaturity doesn't understand that a developing team is growing from mistakes. Mistakes are a teacher. Better to have mistakes now and develop into a solid team all around. This team needs the fans support no matter what. Let's see if we are fair weather fans or true fans on this journey with BYU Football.

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    Sept. 13, 2017 8:10 a.m.

    Is there anything more hilarious than Ute trolls endlessly obsessing on all things BYU and boasting of their own superiority?

    All this....

    After a colossal 6 point victory, which came on the heels of a 1 point victory, which followed 17 of these 20 games being decided by a touchdown or less. And having this last game, yet again, go down to the last possession?


    With all of it's "Supposed" advantages...

    P-5, Pac-12, faster, stronger, bigger athletes, supremely intelligent , better looking, more tolerant and more humble players, along with better coaches, cheerleaders, water-boys, announcers and tailgaters, all this while sporting their pink stadium seats and an inability to define and wear the Color Crimson.....

    Are still BYU's equal and are still the Mid-Major/Washington Generals of the Pac-12.


    There have been nearly 180 Championships awarded (all sports) in the Pac-12 since Utah filled in for the Texas and Oklahoma schools, and yet, heretofore, the University of Eccles-Red Tailed Hawks, have managed to win....

    Count 'em 3..... Whole Championships in League..

    That my friends, is one enormous Matzah Ball !

  • JSB Sugar City, ID
    Sept. 13, 2017 2:58 a.m.

    "Cougar fans are worried" Why worry? It's just a game.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Sept. 12, 2017 11:34 p.m.

    Taciturn - Provo, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 9:48 p.m.

    Aside from beating the Cougars many years in a row, what have the Utes accomplished since joining the Pac12? Mediocre records and mediocre bowl games? Whit and company at the U are geniuses for getting their fans to think so highly of mediocrity.


    Your side owns mediocrity. What has BYU done since going independent? That is right, mediocre records and mediocre bowl games.
    BYU is great at losing to ranked teams on ESPN, thanks to their exclusive contract.
    Nice way to get an official conference invite.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 11:25 p.m.

    People don't seem to get the team concept, let's break it down:

    WRs - dropping too many passes that hit their hands, no excuse for that, if you touch it you need to pull it in period, end of story. The other problem is separation - if you can't outrun them you can move your body in a way to create separation when the ball comes to you - huge issue on either talent or coaching.

    OL - not working as a group, no rushing lanes, big boys, OL coach needs a serious wake-up call or replacement.

    RBs - finally some hope, why did it take so long? (aside from injury)

    QB - Get some fire in your belly!

    OC - learn what's working and what's not working, if pro style isn't working due to the OL and lack of a running game, go temporarily to something that works and merge back to pro style next season.

    This is fixable, I hope, but it's the entire offense, not one guy or one group, the TEs is the only group that look good and they lost one of the starters already.

    A lot of games to go, and perhaps they'll be more interesting, I say BYU is either 3-4 or 2-5 after Mississippi state, as bad as things are I don't see 1-6 happening.

  • 13Bpatriot SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 10:42 p.m.

    According to
    BYU total offense ranking: 124 out of 129 teams.

    Utah total offense ranking: 39
    Utah St. total offense ranking: 47
    Boise St total offense: 85
    Miss. St total offense: 24

    My prediction is that BYU will be 1-6 after their Miss. State game.

  • why play SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 9:56 p.m.

    Never ceases to amaze me how all the focus of the "football" experts on the boards call out coaches and skill players by name. When you have problems on offense that involve no running game, no passing game and no offense, there is one BIG problem - the O-line. Few mention it, but it's true. The game of football is won in the trenches, period. It's not sexy, but true!

    BYU's defense is good because they have a good D line. Utah's defense is always good cause they always have good D linemen. LSU did what they did to BYU because they have really good lines on both sides of the ball.

    Instead of bashing all the skill players, why don't you start listing all the linemen, by name, and pointing out all they are doing wrong? The reason why is most experts don't know what they are doing wrong. We don't draft fantasy linemen nor do we track their stats. Linemen are especially important in a Pro Style offense.

    Wanna turn things around offensively, stop focusing on Mangum, the RB' s and receivers. They are good enough to compete. Get an O-Line coach in there that knows what he's doing and things will look better offensively for the Y. That O-line is not very good!

  • Taciturn Provo, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 9:48 p.m.

    This BYU team does have some offensive issues that need to be addressed that is for sure. Hopefully they get that turned around soon. But can someone tell me why Ute fans seem all high and mighty about their team? Aside from beating the Cougars many years in a row, what have the Utes accomplished since joining the Pac12? Mediocre records and mediocre bowl games? Whit and company at the U are geniuses for getting their fans to think so highly of mediocrity.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 9:19 p.m.

    I think expectations were pumped up a little too high when BYU hired Ty as Offensive Coordinator. Just because Ty is on board doesn't mean that NFL caliber recruits suddenly appear on the scene. Pro style offense can be very effective but it takes time to learn.

  • greenwoodj Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 8:38 p.m.

    There is nothing wrong with the play making and talent on the offense. What I saw (and I am a former football coach from the Stobart era) was the lack of organization of the O line. They are big enough, and strong enough. They are just not working together. Too much letting the defense into the backfield to harass the QB and not give the RB time to find a hole which will always appear with a second of delay after getting the ball. Tanner is not the problem, nor is Detmer. A good line coach to organize what they have, will change the game dramatically. Maybe too young? incexperience? It doesn't matter. If the O line will pick up the attackers, the entire game will change for the better. It is not too late. The right people are there believe me.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Sept. 12, 2017 8:36 p.m.

    Moracle - I guess you don't live in Utah where BYU is often referred to as 'the Lord's University' by some of the more nearly rabid true believers - ergo, the Lord's team. Good put down of big, good athletes who don't go to Byu because in your estimation they cannot or will not follow the HC. Do you really wonder why so many non-Mormons find you and others in your organization insufferable?

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Sept. 12, 2017 8:34 p.m.

    BlueHusky - Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:36 p.m.
    Enough about BYU joining a conference. They won't do it and shouldn't do it. Conference membership has nothing to do with performance. BYU has beaten every PAC12 team at one time or another. BYU is usually as good or better than the bottom half of most conferences. Last year they beat Mississippi State and Michigan State.


    More reverse logic from a BYU fan trying to explain a loss again.
    So 3+ decades equals a season?

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 8:04 p.m.


    The Utes also had a touchdown called back because of the exact same penalty. Both were questionable. Those refs were terrible. It's nice to see the "moral victories" will never die in cougarville. You keep hanging on to those. FWIW, I would worry more about the whY? than Utah in the PAC 12. We're now at 2845 days!🤣

  • Moracle Blackshear, GA
    Sept. 12, 2017 7:43 p.m.

    Another Concern: Not enough big and talented football players graduating from high school who are willing to live a life morally clean enough to qualify -- by living the BYU code of conduct.

    Although we don't refer to the Cougars as "the Lord's team", many non-members do see it as the Mormon Church's Team... and for that reason, especially, I'd like to see them "Rise and Shout", and "Rise and Shine", when "the Cougars are out".

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 7:39 p.m.

    NOTtoosmart - Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    If you watched the game, Utah also had a touchdown called backed on a very dubious "screen" call.

    I know it's difficult with all the losing to Utah that your team has been doing this century, but come on man, fight that descent into insanity.

    Fight it.

  • Moracle Blackshear, GA
    Sept. 12, 2017 7:28 p.m.

    Greatest Concerns -
    Just these:
    Grabbing, but missing tackles.
    Line Unable to keep opposing team from getting to quarterback.
    Receivers unable to hold ball when it's in their hands.
    Cougars seem to lack Team Spirit and drive.
    Cougars don't seem to try hard enough.
    Why players are not replaced when performing poorly.
    Miss-judged passes, landing out of reach of receiver, behind and in front.
    Plays that lack creativity, too easily read by opposing team.

  • SageRider Spanish Fork USA, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 7:05 p.m.

    Gotta laugh at the comments made by Wallbanger. Simply by virtue of the fact that he continues to comment on BYU articles proves we are still relevant to him. If not, why comment on a team you have moved on from? Yes BYU is struggling. Would I, as a fan, like to see us in a P5 conference. Of course I would. But I have absolutely no control over that. I like Utah's football program and am very pleased for their success. I hope that the Cougs can once again compete with Utah. By the way, Mr. Huntley could be the QB on my team any day. That guy is a competitor! Good luck to the Utes and the Cougs the rest of the season.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 12, 2017 7:02 p.m.

    " And Florida Atlantic lost only 31-14. BYU is better than both of those teams."

    As a season ticket holding BYU fan you gotta ask... huh? BYU is better based off of what? Beating Portland State? Lets just face it, this team has issues. Little things like yards after catch - simply don't exist this year. Add to that absolutely avoidable penalties at the absolutely worst possible moment.. and this team has a steep learning curve ahead of it. It's not that the offense hasn't had its chances, the defense has been doing a decent of getting the opposing teams offense off the field. Add to that the only bright spot at the TE position.

    No.... I would say this is squarely owned by TY. He simply doesn't have the depth in O to play the type of offense he wants. And rather than adjusting to what he has, he is running an offense that it is clearly uncomfortable for this team to run.

    Will future recruiting help get TY the talent he needs.... ? Maybe the biggest question is will he last long enough to recruit those players..... next few weeks will tell.

  • toosmartforyou Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:59 p.m.

    Just love reading all these comments by the superior ute fans, whose team won because they made 4 field goals and had the benefit of an offensive pass interference penalty that called back the touchdown that would have given the Y the victory. There is no question that BYU is struggling, but there is a big question if utah can do anything this year in the mighty PAC12. So we'll see; it might prove to be interesting for the PAC12 to see USC steam-roll everyone else, and Colorado is ahead of the u since both joined the PAC together. Of course all anyone wants to talk about is the mighty 7 in a row. Go ahead; that might be all you have to crow about by the end of the season.

  • UteMiguel Go Utes, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:51 p.m.

    I would bet my life savings that after BYU had played 7-8 bad teams most fans on this board will be convinced BYU's problems are solved and that BYU is the "better team" than Utah.

  • DodgerDoug Salem, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:49 p.m.

    You are correct but it is already happening for years now... Cougs are moving to the dark side. Just look at Utah County... there are more Ute billboards in Utah County. There are more cars with Ute stickers in Utah County and there are more hats , t-shirts, sweaters for the Utes being worn in Utah County and it is making me ill.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:46 p.m.

    Cheer up, fans. BYU has set the table for success, beginning this Saturday.

    Wisconsin is in a world of hurt.

    First of all, the Badgers have played at home against two second-rate opponents. USU led them for nearly a half before folding up like a cheap accordion. And Florida Atlantic lost only 31-14. BYU is better than both of those teams. Besides, BYU has the added experience of already playing a top 25 team.

    And remember, Wisconsin doesn't yet know which Y. quarterback to prepare for--and the Cougars seem to be in no hurry to let then know.

    Another big advantage is that BYU's top players in the first two games have done an excellent job of hiding their true greatness. How do the Badgers prepare for that?

    All this, together with the fact that BYU is hungry and has the home field advantage and the altitude advantage means that Wisconsin is in for a good thumping.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:36 p.m.

    Enough about BYU joining a conference. They won't do it and shouldn't do it. Conference membership has nothing to do with performance. BYU has beaten every PAC12 team at one time or another. BYU is usually as good or better than the bottom half of most conferences. Last year they beat Mississippi State and Michigan State.

    The issues this year is transition to pro set offense with QB's recruited to run spread. Drop back passing is much more difficult and will take some time for Mangum to learn.

  • kreese Ivins, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 5:05 p.m.

    Most of us can only speculate, but you may need pro-type players to run a pro-style offense. Teams run spreads to create one-on-one situations. Hopefully they can fix this.

  • Meckofahess Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:55 p.m.

    I hate to be a pessimist, but we were sold a bill of goods by coaches, media and players who led us to believe this team was going to be good. Those lofty expectations coupled with pent up frustration with a team that has mostly just beaten only the cream puffs for the last 6-8 years has resulted in a knot in the stomach feeling most of us Cougar fans now have. I don't think BYU will be able to beat Wisconsin, Mississippi State, Boise State, and probably not Utah State. So if we end of with say a 7-6 record with wins only against the sub level teams - that will be really satisfying right? This half century plus fan is really discouraged and down right now. I really hope BYU can find a way to at least make a good game against Wisconsin. We the fans need something to boost our spirits and if we don't get it I think a lot of us will shift towards becoming a Utah fan - and that really is a hard one to swallow but it's a distinct possibility at least for this old dog. C'mon Cougs - rise up and win somehow!

  • christoph Brigham City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:52 p.m.

    And we nearly won against a great defense too......just like the last 2 years. Y is peaking today and Utes have peaked. Oct and Nov. will bring day and night difference to each program. Granted, the Utes have 12th most difficult schedule in the nation, so they could lose 6 or 7 straight.

  • Red Corvette St George, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:49 p.m.

    This dumpster fire belongs to Ty Detmer and Kalani Sitaki. Tanner Mangum is just another burning tire in the fire.

  • niners Waynesville, MO
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:46 p.m.

    There is a reason most great coaches weren't former players past college. Coaching takes years of coaching multiple positions through multiple seasons. It takes years. Most offensive coordinators have coached the O-line, WRs and RBs during separate seasons ( a lot even coached defensive positions at some point). Ty was a back up NFL QB. That is legitimately his "coaching" experience. 1 position, as a back-up. I seriously don't see how BYU fans and these DNews writers expected him to do better. If you told me Alex Smith (a much better NFL QB than Ty) was going to be Utahs offensive coordinator next season I'd know he was unqualified and it'd be a disaster. Alex is one of the smartest QBs in the league, and there is still no question he would not succeed, and I'd argue Alex is more qualified than Ty. Being an offensive coordinator at a high level requires years and years of studying and coaching multiple positions. Bottom line: Ty is embarrassingly unqualified to be an offensive coordinator.

  • What Matters Here Cedar City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:45 p.m.

    BYU has priorities that are different than some of the Schools that are beating them in Football. P5 Schools. Get used to this People. In My Opinion and many others, it's just the reality of the money involved in College Football, P5 Television Contracts etc. Add the Honor Code to that, and the fact that currently, we're not in a conference, and we can't recruit and compete with a P5 program regularly. It's not on this Coach or that Coach, or even this player or that player, it's bigger faster stronger kids recruited by a school from a program with more recruiting leverage and $ money $. I had a real hard time with this until I came to terms with it and said "do I want BYU to drop the Honor Code bad enough to compete with..... the University of "whovever"?..... and when I decided the answer was NO! I was able to let it go. (but I can only speak for me.) (just a thought)

  • Eastern CO Coug Elizabeth, CO
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:42 p.m.

    The lack of talent theory is hog wash in my opinion except for the QB position. In the past BYU had smart QBs who knew where to go with the ball. I remember Detmer running for his life half the time but he found people open. I remember when BYU had less talent than now and they were offensive machines. They knew how to get most out of their players. Coaches like Mike Holmgren were offensive gurus. Talent is not everything. BYU could win before without much of it. And they can still do it. I feel recruiting has been much better with Sitake versus Mendenhall. Time will tell I suppose.

    While talent is not everything, I question the coaches' ability to pick out the best talent BYU does have- especially on the offensive side of the ball. Why did Ula not play earlier in game? Why did they not use him in prior games? Don't buy the injury excuse for the Utah game.

    Defense is much better but no push up front.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:40 p.m.

    Nick Saban couldn't make this team a winner. The talent pool has finally dried up thanks to being an Independent for a decade. Bronco warned about this very thing. This is not the coaches fault. A coach can't create talent. I think Provo fans will continue to fill the stadium on beautiful fall afternoons -- the food is good and the atmosphere is fun for the kids. The football stinks but that isn't going to change. Mangum would be a good QB if he had help -- his O-line is slow and unathletic, his receivers are junior college level, his running backs are junior college level. No game plan is going to work magic with this bunch. Give em a break folks -- they are doing their best out there but they are just out gunned. I would be surprised to see more than 3 wins this year. Ugly.

  • steve24/7 Sandy, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:14 p.m.

    We have a good defense and a pretty poor offense. Detmer needs to use schemes that will capitalize on his guys' talents and best abilities. Maybe his dream of running a Pro-Style offense at BYU will need to remain only a dream for now. But I know one thing for sure: if I see one more play where all of our OL attempt to chop block the defense and the only ones lying on the ground afterwards are our O-linemen, I'm gonna throw up.

  • David Centerville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 4:05 p.m.

    A number of thoughts:
    1. BYU has played two tough opponents. Give them some slack. They'll be playing patsies soon enough and a lot of these problems will "go away". We'll be back to thinking we're the best by the end of the season.
    2. Coaches do not seem to be teaching and coaching well. If receivers are not running crisp routes, if linemen are not picking up blitzes, if the QB is not seeing the field right, if the punter is making crazy decisions to try and fake punt, if head coaching decisions were a bit better with game management, if, if, really does seem some better coaching might help.
    3. Independent status is hurting recruiting. There was a noticeable difference between the Utah players and the BYU players. Athleticism, conditioning, strength need improvement. It tragic that BYU has a stadium, a history, a brand that should be at the P5 level...but the play does not match P5 play.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 3:59 p.m.

    Sir Robin,

    Do you actually think that getting into a G5 would improve recruiting chances?

    I think you are dead wrong.

    Staying independent with ESPN is a far greater benefit for recruits, we're not winning all of our games but we're playing way beyond anything that any G5 team gets to play year in and year out.

    Recruiting increases with a G5 is utter nonsense, it would have the opposite effect.

    Ty Detmer might wind up being a good OC, he might not, jury is still out on it, it takes some time to learn the system. Case in point, Troy Tailor, looks pretty good against BYU, you might want to hold judgment back until you hit your PAC schedule this year, aside from a really amazing small QB (likely to be injured) - give Ty and Troy some time.

    As for optimism - do you really think that optimism in unique to BYU? seriously.

  • Hoosier87 American Fork, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 3:31 p.m.

    I don't want to hear BYU doesn't have P5 talent, give me a break! Seriously! Enough with that nonsense.

    The recruiting and excitement around the program are sky high.

    If anyone says differently I question their knowledge of sports. The problem is with Heaps - I mean Mangum.

    He has no vision. He can't see wide open receivers. His arm strength is a joke. His passes are way off. How long are people going to make excuses for him? Seriously? It's Heaps all over again.

    If, and I mean a big if, if he could complete passes, the run game would open up. You've got Trinnaman that runs a 4.3 and he can't throw him the ball. That's not P5 talent? Shumway has a 38 inch vertical, that's not P5 talent? Bushman is an NFL tight end for sure!

    Stop making excuses and replace Mangum.

  • Dart Thrower Ogden, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 3:16 p.m.

    Fans and Y administration need to be patient with Sitaki. He is a good coach and will do the best with the talent he can recruit. BUT, they also need to pay him enough that he doesn't wander off to another job in a few years.

    BYU has a good football legacy and it is worth saving, but like Coach Whittingham says, You're either all in or in the way. BYU and owners of the school need to go all in or throw in the towel.

  • Crazy in California Acampo, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 3:10 p.m.

    I look forward to it seeing how much better they can be, how much they will grow.

    They can make this happen.

    Sept. 12, 2017 2:26 p.m.

    When was the last time BYU beat a good P5 team that ended the season with a winning record? When was the last time BYU beat a team that ended the season ranked?
    An finally when was the last time BYU beat multiple ranked teams in the same season?

    I understand optimism but there was no logical reason to think BYU would beat LSU, Utah, or Wisconsin, much less come away with multiple wins against those teams.

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 2:25 p.m.

    DEW Cougars,

    "Don't worry give Coach Kalani Sitake and Ty Detmer more time. I think we will be fine starting end of September"

    You mean, when the schedule lightens up? During that time you're proposing to give them, other teams will be whooping BYU left and right. But that's okay, they just need more time.

    They will "look better" in November when they play Bo Diddley Tech college and fans will think they fixed all of their problems, then go into the off season with an ego and "new sheriff" garbage. Rinse and repeat. This happens every year.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 2:22 p.m.

    OK, wanna know how to fix BYU-Provo football? Here goes...

    Problem: Lack of talent. BYU-P recruiting is terrible.
    Solution: Get into a G5 conference ASAP. At least the decline in recruiting will bottom out.

    Problem: Bad OC.
    Solution: Stop living in the past! Your former heroes may have been great players but they are lousy coaches. I don't care if Detmer invented football - he can't teach it. The fact that his only coaching experience is high school should tell you that.

    Problem: Too great of expectations.
    Solution: Stop listening to the media. Start questioning what they say. Every year you fans buy their schtick. Every year you're let down. Embrace the fact that you're a solid mid-major program (nothing more, nothing less) and you might find happiness in your fandom.

  • John Jackson Sandy, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 2:21 p.m.

    I don't believe Mangum is the problem. He's proven, having shined as a freshman. What's changed since then?
    Bless Detmer. Be as kind and gentle and diplomatic as possible . . . but after a year plus, it might be time to say it just isn't working. I wouldn't let him go, though, unless you have in mind someone who can come in and be a definite upgrade.

  • Juice Box Eureka, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 2:20 p.m.

    People need to stop protecting Ty Detmer. He can do no wrong to Cougar fans.

    Reality: BYU's offense is the worst its been in decades. Who is the ultimate responsibility of the offense? Ty Detmer and Kalani Sitaki.

    A good OC will adjust the offense to the personnel, not the other way around. People are crazy wanting to wait for Ty to learn or get the guys he needs for his offense".

    Have fun waiting another 5 years while getting whooped by your rival!

  • jack1066 Burley, ID
    Sept. 12, 2017 2:04 p.m.

    CBSSports has BYU ranked their bottom 25. The Aggies even got off that list.

  • london_josh lincoln, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 2:03 p.m.

    I'm so tired of the doom and gloom.

    We looked horrible so far. We won the game we should have won by not so much, we lost the game we should have lost and looked horrible, we lost the toss-up to a team that also looked horrible.

    You don't fire the coaches over something like that - work through the year, even a disappointing year, work through it, find your new talent, find the identity, and keep on cheering.

    No fair weather fan here - I can be critical but I wear blue to the games I get to go to and I don't see this as a waste of a year, each team has bad years, whatever, we'll fight for a bowl game rather than cruising to one, we've got good players coming in, a good coaching staff, might take longer than expected to get things right, we can wait.

    Get the running game fixed, I think we found our backs - why did we wait this long? Get separation from the receivers, tell Tanner to snap out of it or put in somebody with fire in his bones.

    Most big teams get warm-ups to figure this out, Utah looks horrible too, problem is that we need to be warmed up early, the team might get there, but firing people and jumping to a lesser conference is foolish talk.

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:52 p.m.

    According to BYU fans the conversation in Green Bay in 1992 must have sounded something like this:

    A: We've got a quarterback coming from the Falcons. He's in his second year, what should we do to help him progress?

    B: How about we draft Ty Detmer to teach him how to play football?

    Later that year...Favre throws in his second season (Detmer's rookie season) half as many yards and touchdowns as Detmer would in his entire NFL career.

  • water rocket Magna, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:44 p.m.

    There are some very thoughtful comments posted here. I confess that I am one of those who are disappointed in the play of Mangum and his receivers though. Mangum knew all summer long that he would be the starter. Maybe that was a bad idea? The receivers should have been motivated to compete for starter status? Execution has been very poor, and it really takes a lot out of me. I don't know how much more I can take of this.

  • RememberBYUwinning13of14? Murray, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:37 p.m.

    This isn't just about the Utah game. This is about 12 quarters of less than acceptable football on the offensive side of the ball. I should say pathetic really when you throw in Portland St. 20 points against them is an embarrassment. I recall beating teams like them 56-0 or 63-7, not a 20-6 game. If you can't move a team downfield, you need to be replaced. Look at what Riley Nelson did when Jake Heaps laid an egg. You need to be an inspirational leader, not throw your hands up when you get back to the sideline. Where's the flair passes to a running back? Where's the draw plays BYU was famous for? Mangum looks like a deer in the headlights player right now. Wake him up, start Kody wilstead instead of Mangum. Kody does fair, keep him in.

  • UU Provo, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:35 p.m.

    Here's something for Holmoe to work on.... get the best teams left in G5 from the East and West that are in decent sized markets and form a new conference.

    Play 5 league games in your division and 3 league games in the opposite division. This means each team would have to make 1-2 trips to the Eastern US each year for conference play.

    New conference could probably get a decent contract from ESPN and get 1 guaranteed spot in a NY6 game:

    Air Force
    Boise State
    Colorado St.
    UNLV or San Jose St.

    S. Florida

  • BC-Cali21 Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:33 p.m.

    Anyone who has given up and is accepting the fact that BYU will always be a mediocre program, and that we have less than superior athletes is certainly coming from a giant universe of lack and fear and forgets, or has never learned what the great sport of football teaches-grit, grind, and always compete.
    Yep, it's frustrating when things don't go your way, but since when in your life has everything or even most of the things gone your way? The start of this season hasn't been what we fans have wanted, but just like Coach Detmer stated, his senior season, they opened up 0 for 3. Who remembers that? Nobody! The only things we remember about BYU football and Ty Detmer is that Detmer picked apart the U, the real U, Miami; that he was one of the toughest guys on the field having subluxed both his shoulders in games where he'd be helped off the field and then would return the next series throwing dimes, and his Heisman. Do we remember the teams' past struggles-not really. Give this offense more time, give this team more time. Give the coaching staff more time to tinker and make the adjustments with the personnel. Cougar nation--especially all you in Utah Co.--RELAX let it happen!

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:30 p.m.

    I loved watching Ty as a player and like him as a person, but as a coach, he really just doesn't know how to organize BYU's offense. An Offense is a complex 'System' of breaking down positions and organizing practices, designing and calling the right plays, adjusting to the defense and TEACHING. Very, very few great coaches were star players.

    Contrary to what Harmon et al have fed us, Ty is apparently an abysmal Teacher of the Game. Heck, he doesn't even know what plays to call.

    The bigger problem is: Who will do it better at the level we pay our coaches? By missing the 'BCS Bounce' (winning multiple BCS games that TCU and Utah did), BYU missed their chance to go to a P5 conference. They are now doomed to wander the earth as Independents, missing out on that rich P5 Conference Payout. They are Have-Nots and now will never be able to afford better coaches or recruit the athletes you see on Utah and other P5 teams.

    The only way out of this mess is to win and EARN our way to a P5 conference. And that, my friends, won't happen with this staff of Offensive Coaches or level of athletes.

  • 7 in a row! Ogden, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:29 p.m.

    What's most concerning to me are the fickle fans.

    7 in a row!

    Is no fluke... nice to that word go away.


  • JustGordon Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:23 p.m.

    I always love the urban legend tales about how Detmer taught Favre how to put on shoulder pads and throw a pass. Detmer may have been able to help Favre, but none of the young men at quarterback for our little blue brothers have anything like Favre's skills and savvy.

    Urban legend tales are meant to draw attention away from Detmer's obviously limited experience as a coach of small school football. They all ignore the reality that Favre is Canton Ohio Hall of Fame bound, while Detmer's current students are playing like they are Hall of Shame bound.

  • LivinLarge Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:16 p.m.

    Wasn't Detmer's job before becoming OC for BYU as a high school coach? Are you kidding me! This season reminds me of when Detmer passed for 7 interceptions in one game playing for the Detroit Lions...only worse.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:16 p.m.

    It all centered on going independent as a knee-jerk reaction to the Utes going to the PAC 12. Independence hurt recruiting a whole lot. Not having anything to play for after the first loss of the year hurts, too.

    This entire scenario is aggravated by the media hype every pre-season, along with the readiness of the gullible faithful to buy into the fiction that is being sold.

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:15 p.m.


    "BYU is being taught offensive football by the same guy who taught Brett Favre how to put on shoulder pads and how to throw a pass."

    Are you feeling ok? I'm concerned.

    You're saying the Detmer (drafted 1992), who threw a career total of roughly 6000 yards and 30ish touchdowns, taught Favre (Drafted 1991), to throw 3000+ yards and 17 touchdowns in 1992, how to throw the ball?

    Interesting logic.

  • Willie Saint George, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:13 p.m.

    As an Independent, BYU does have to prepare and play a tough conference each year like the SEC, PAC 12 and Big 10. So for LSU to play a BYU was really nothing for them. They should have beat BYU by much more but it was their 1st game. Utah is in a tough conference and mentally prepares for big games, but BYU is not really a big deal for them anymore. Wisconsin wool not leave Provo with a loss either. Not sure what BYU could do to be better prepared other than join a TOUGH conference. Or be accepted in.

  • UU Provo, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:10 p.m.

    Wow, talk about overreaction. I'm an outsider so maybe I can provide an objective perspective.

    BYU's defense is solid - no problem there.

    Yes BYU's offense is struggling to find it's identity but has finally found a running back (the 255lb. guy - forgot his name). If you run him 15-20 times a game and then mix in a few runs from Dye I think BYU has serviceable running backs. Tanner will actually have to run (designed runs) 3-4 times a game too to keep the defense honest.

    Passing game: Now it's just a matter of putting Mangum in a position to get the ball out of his hands without all the defensive pressure in his face. Mix in more short routes screens, slants, drags, sit downs and then try the routes that take longer to develop once the other team's safeties creep up (posts, fly, wheel). The BYU receivers need to continue to work on separation techniques. BYU has been slow at the WR position for ages and it's never hampered their pass game in the past. It will all come together for the Y.... take a deep breath and relax.

  • DEW Cougars Sandy, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 1:08 p.m.

    You know we have some bad time in past. I believe coach Lavell Edward came close to being axed back in his early 70's. Don't worry give Coach Kalani Sitake and Ty Detmer more time. I think we will be fine starting end of September. Go ahead say it "Wait Till Next Year," come on Cougar Fans just calm down and yes I am not too thrill what happened against LSU and other two.

  • taylormade1 Springville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 12:56 p.m.

    This Team has had all Spring ,Summer and Fall Camp to figure things out and they come right out to start the season shooting blanks ... You have got to be kidding me !!

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 12:52 p.m.

    "Receivers? Linemen? The kicking game? Missed assignments? Penalties? Media? Whoever didn't protect the Cougar statue in plastic wrap during rivalry week?

    All of the above?"

    This is starting to read like Hillary Clinton's fictional novella about the 2016 election.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 12:50 p.m.

    The pileup - which is BYU's current state of affairs - started in 2010 when BYU went independent, which led to unrealistic fan expectations, front-loaded schedules, getting man-handled on national TV, etc.

    Tom Holmoe either needs to schedule G5s in September, or get BYU back into the Mountain West Conference.

    Right now, they're wandering in the wilderness... on TV.

  • strom thurmond taylorsville, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 12:44 p.m.

    "7th setback to rival Utah "

    Here in the real world we call it a loss.

  • Wallbanger Spanish Fork, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 12:42 p.m.

    After hearing all summer that the cougs were going to win this year because the "new sheriff" and something about "being afraid" and a "pendulum", I think byu fans need to stop jumping in the time machine, over hyping everything and pretending you're relevant today. Byu plateaued under Bronco, now the reality of Indy is rearing its ugly head, and the program is declining.

    Coug fans just need to accept the fact that this is the way it'll be for the foreseeable future. That doesn't mean it'll only get worse, or it won't get better, but without a good conference and the same old restrictions of recruiting good players and coaches to the whY?, will probably never change. Resulting in the product of a mid-major team. If I'm wrong, then what have you done since going the independent route? It's not 1984 anymore, and the college football landscape has changed drastically since then!

  • 1984 for life Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2017 12:37 p.m.

    BYU is being taught offensive football by the same guy who taught Brett Favre how to put on shoulder pads and how to throw a pass.

    Problem is, they don't have quality P-5 skill position players. No coach can make up for a lack of talent.