This isn't about Mormons; it's about Mitt the Moralist.Romney decided to grab some headlines and pontificate about Roy Moore's
allegations. Bannon fought back by calling Mitt a coward who hid behind his
church.Herbert had to jump into the fray for some odd reason.
To be denounced by Steve Bannon is a badge of honor.
Vietnam was over when Bannon was eating 3 squares and sleeping in a bed ever
night. Nice try Bannon. My war hero.
"be more than happy to sit down with Mr. Bannon and help him understand more
about the LDS Church at his convenience. I’ve got a copy of the Book of
Mormon with his name on it." One's judgment is only as good as
one's information. Surely read the Book three times, before judging it.
Five stars for the book.
Romney is always there to be a Reid clone, and make all kinds of allegations
about opponents or possible opponents. He's also always there with people
like Herbert to check the prevailing political winds before taking a
"stand" or voicing a "position" on any particular issue.
That's why he's so loved in Utah . . . he has that knack of knowing
exactly what people (and particularly sanctimonious people) want to hear, and
he's oblige them every time.
I know 'Mormon bigots' and Bannon is not one. Maybe an anti-Mormon
bigot, but definitely not a Mormon bigot. Just look around you, if you want to
see one. . .
Part 2 of 2Roy Moore graduated from West Point in 1969, served in
several posts as a military police officer, including Fort Benning, Georgia,
and, Germany. He was later deployed to Vietnam, serving as the commander of
188th Military Police Company of the 504th Military Police Battalion. He was not
popular with those he commanded and was fearful of being fragged by his own men,
sleeping with sandbags under his bed. Although he did not serve in combat
against North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters, he did have his own private war
with those in his own military police unit.Donald Trump used a bogus
excuse, obtained from a doctor his father retained, saying he should not be
drafted because of "bone spurs", a problem easily corrected through
minor surgery. Although it did not detain him from his usual activities in the
New York dating scene, Trump often remarked that he fought his own Vietnam
avoiding getting sexually-transmitted diseases during these dating days.The point of all this is that Bannon's criticism of Romney for not
serving is hypocritical at best. Criticizing Romney's children for not
serving while excusing Trump and his children is just partisan nonsense.
Red Smith - American Fork, UTDec. 6, 2017 4:07 p.m."Stever
Bannon is making the statement that putting one's life on the lineis
an act of integrity.Although Steve Bannon served in the U.S. Navy
(first as a surface weapons officer on a destroyer in the Pacific and then as
special assistant to the Chief of Naval Operations at the Pentagon) in the late
70's and early 80's, he did not serve in wartime. We can honor him for
his service, but at no time did he go in harm's way.It needs to
be noted that Bannon also benefited from college deferments during the height of
the Vietnam War and hence avoided military service until it was no longer a
threat. He joined the U.S. Navy as an officer after he graduated from college
and served for seven years. This is far different from the WWII
years when service in the U.S. Navy was as dangerous as that for a marine
landing at Okinawa. This in no way detracts from his service, but it was not
anywhere near the heroic effort he ascribes to Roy Moore in his criticism of
Mitt Romney. In fact, Moore was not a combat soldier in Vietnam and appeared to
have more problems with his own men rather that the enemy.Part 1 of
Frank Montoya Jr -“Glad the governor said something.
Hatch's response is similar to those on this page who will say anything to
convince themselves that somehow Trump and his ilk are honorable or good or
decent. Or even intelligent. All you have to do is read a few of Trump's
tweets to know that is an impossibility.Or listen to Bannon speak. His
comments about Romney reflected not only a lack of character and integrity, but
intellectual dishonesty when he said Vietnam-era college deferments (like the
kind Trump used) were debatable, but being a missionary, like Romney, amounted
to hiding behind a religion. Sounded like the words of an ignorant, factional,
small-minded, chauvinistic, biased, sectarian partisan to me”. Excellent example of a well thought out, highly articulate comment. Low
information, enabling faction please take note! Furthermore. Based upon previous
posts I believe Mr. Montoya Jr is retired F.B.I...Certain he would not mind
shedding some light on factual information while calling out truly fake and
illegitimate sources of news (since he is able to speak from firsthand
experience) if asked directly. Any takers? Thank you and Happy Holidays!
Thanks Governor for showing leadership and a willingness to speak out about a
unfair, inaccurate statement. Utah congressional delegations silence speaks
volumes about their character. Party before principles for the Utah delegation.
Image what they would be saying if a Democrat had said what Bannon said.
Just like he did with Muslims -- Steve Bannon just blew his
Anti-Mormon dog whistle loud and clear to the nation in Alabama....
Please remember that Steve Bannon was down here supporting Roy Moore. Let me step back & address what Elder Oaks has said about Roy Moore (&
KY's Kim Davis), "acting as public officials they are not free to
apply personal convictions, religious or other, in place of the defined
responsibilities of their public offices. All government officers should
exercise their civil authority according to the principles and within the limits
of civil government."Elder Dallin H. Oaks, 10/20/2015Doesn't this say enough about Moore &, by association, Bannon? If a member of the Quorum of the Twelve speaks against a politician, the
politician cannot be good for our country. Moore's behavior
clearly demonstrates that he is against freedom of religion - unless it is his.
Remember, "when morality is involved, we have both the right and
the obligation to raise a warning voice. We do not as a church speak on
political issues unless morality is involved."Boyd K Packer, April
1992 General ConferenceGod Bless this, the United States
Bannon is virtue signalling to an anti-LDS audience to reject Romney's and
Flake's attacks on Roy Moore. That is ugly. But hardly unique.Notice how many regular,posters here, both locally and from across the nation,
make a habit of expressing their own very ugly anti-LDS bigotries. For these
people to suddenly claim moral outrage at anti-LDS rhetoric is beyond
hypocritical. It is a blatant attempt to manipulate LDS the same way Bannon is
manipulating his evangelical audience.The enemy of my enemy is not
necessarily my friend and I dont intend to let any anti-LDS manipulate me.If Sen. Bob Menendez resigns while Chris Christie is still governor and
can appoint a GOPer to replace him, we can talk about Moore dropping out and
handing a GOP safe seat to a democrat. Otherwise, elect Moore and continue the
investigation. He can resign "in a few weeks" (like Franken claims he
will do) if there is sufficient evidence. Just lime,Franken and Conyers, the
resignation at thst point won't cost any partisan advantage.Goose and gander. GOP can no longer afford to play a differnet set of rules
than the Demos do.A race to the bottom is sad. Losing our
constitution is worse.
@David - Centerville, UTRomney's recent statements has assured
me I will not vote for Romney. I did in 2012 but no more.
I wondered how long it would take before Bannon or any other luminary in the
reaactionary GOP circles would begin the attack on LDS. It seems destiny.trump's Bannon inspired campaign found ways to demonize "the
other", which inspired fear and loathing on the part of millions of
Americans. It is clear to me that manufactured fear and loathing drove
otherwise sensible people to vote for the most uniquely unqualified and unfit
President this country has ever seen.So maybe the LDS faithful, and
the very structure of the church hierarchy, should reconsider their blind
obeisance to Republicans. You may be the next victim of the cultural xenophobia
that has infected the country. And think about why a party goes out of its way
to scapegoat the least of us. And what this ultimately leads to. Think about it.
There is no freedom of Religion without Freedom of Country.President
Monson, Eyring, and Uchtorf. All served their country in the Military. As well
as many Prophets did along with serving a mission. That attack was about
Military service not about religion.
While the governor is correct, he should not fall into the trap of entering a
dialog with someone of Bannon's flawed character. The LDS church sets the
example of not responding to every insult by fringe elements. Bannon's own
words condemn him.
It is a shame that so many people in the political arena no longer seem to
concern themselves with policy differences anymore; but instead focus on
personal attacks.The problem of course, is that it works. Attack
your opponent in a very personal way and lots of voters will change their votes.
Instead of voting for the 'best candidate' at the election, we end up
voting for the 'lessor of two evils'.
It would seem better for Herbert to call Bannon an 'anti-Mormon
bigot', rather than a 'Mormon bigot', don't you think. . .
However, having said that, Romney asked for the criticism by making his previous
comments and he got it. Mitt has never learned to restrain himself
when he could temporarily look good by mouthing off. There are legions of
others in Utah who could learn a lesson from this episode.
In Vietnam Roy Moore had to sleep on sand bags for fear that his own men would
frag him for his reckless behavior with their lives.Real war hero.
In my opinion, Mitt Romney was wrong to weigh in on Roy Moore. It as caused an
unnecessary firestorm on sensitive issues. He should have known that.
Bannon's remarks were crude, but Mitt is at fault as well by jumping in and
saying anything. He is not a political figure anymore.
The sanctimony is dripping from this comment board. So much holy holy
What Bannon doesn't understand is that Mormons plan their whole lives to
serve missions. They start saving money for a mission sometimes before they are
born. Mitt Romney serving a mission was not some last minute convenient, sneaky
excuse to get out of being drafted. Millions of Americans didn't serve in
Vietnam and haven't served in the military. It is absurd to fault the
Romney family for being among them. Steven Bannon needs to just go away. Or,
even better, people need to start ignoring him.
Trump has served this country in many ways:* provided tens of
thousands of jobs for follow Americans.* through his success, has
provided billions in tax revenues for America.* has enriched business
trades to improve Americas economy.* lowered income taxes.*
reduced illegal immigration* strengthened Americas ability to defend
itself.* given government controlled lands back to citizens.*
exposed the dishonesty of many folks, and their corrupt rhetoric.* having
grit and backbone with correcting wrong doing.Thank you president
Trump and may America be worthy of your leadership.
Romney does not use good judgement. The use of the word "stain" is
abhorrent. I wish he would remember he is a representative of the Church in the
He is a dangerous man. He had a plan to rule the country and the world. He needs
to be contained. Thankfully, he is out of the White House but still remains
dangerous. Bright but dangerous.
Bannon and the Bannonites will troll anyone viciously to support the Donald.
They need anyone they can control when the impeachment drops.
Bannon may be even more devious than we thought. With his intentionally vicious
and offensive statements, he is actually trying to pave Mitt's path to the
Senate.This example of reverse psychology should be known as the
The Governor is right. But to be consistent, he needs to include Trump in that
Romney's commentary proves he is "just totally out of touch with
reality." Romney could have prevented the significant damage Obama did to
the United States in his second term if he wasn't so worried about tidying
up the deck chairs. He hasn't learned from 2012.
@wgirl - Salt Lake City, UTWe can debate all day who is the worst
liar as if it even matters. A liar is a liar.By your post it infers
you voted for Mrs. Clinton because she was the lesser of two evils. Would not it
have been better not to vote for either? While I tend to mostly vote Republican,
I have never voted straight ticket as I vote for the candidate, not the party. I
could not in good conscience vote for either of the main presidential
candidates. Something the rest of the voters should also have done.
I agree with the guv. Keep in mind though, Bannon is still in Trump's
corner, despite claims to the contrary. Utah's Republicans need to be more
consistent, I say, as Trump seems to do little wrong when he does their bidding
(on public lands for example) and when he doesn't play their hand, we
rarely hear a peep about it.
I was in the 1969 lottery and had a low number and was a class away from
graduating before my number came up. I did finish while in the Army and
graduated in 1972. I finished my career in the Air Force in 1992.I
learned that playing the lottery was sort of like gambling. You win some and
lose some. In the Army I was headed to Vietnam and the Army changed that to
Germany. In the Air Force as a pilot, I went to Vietnam.I
didn’t ever have a grudge for those that had high numbers. However, I
never played any lottery or gambling ever again. I had the opportunity to be in
Las Vegas at Nellie Air Force Base many times for 2 Weeks at a time and never
gambled. Remember, George Romney was a candidate running for
President of the United States of America. He came back after visiting Vietnam
and said he had been brainwashed and the campaign opponents ate him alive.I am sure Mitt was a very astute person. With a high number in the
draft, he had no obligation to serve in the military. He won and served our
nation in various honorable positions, paid and as a volunteer.He is
of high intelligence and integrity.
Didn't Trump, who Bannon supports, use "heel spurs" to avoid
serving in Vietnam?
Let us forgive all. Happy people united in community will always win. Bannon,
Romney and Hatch all born outside Utah, so this is not Utah issue. Surprised
our great governor would even need to waste his breath on this one. Let things
go. Let us move on.
Glad the governor said something. Hatch's response is similar to those on
this page who will say anything to convince themselves that somehow Trump and
his ilk are honorable or good or decent. Or even intelligent. All you have to
do is read a few of Trump's tweets to know that is an impossibility.Or listen to Bannon speak. His comments about Romney reflected not only
a lack of character and integrity, but intellectual dishonesty when he said
Vietnam-era college deferments (like the kind Trump used) were debatable, but
being a missionary, like Romney, amounted to hiding behind a religion. Sounded like the words of an ignorant, factional, small-minded,
chauvinistic, biased, sectarian partisan to me.
Mormon politicians come in every political stripe. Isn't the highest
ranking ever Harry Reid? Wiser than I has said that there is good in each party
platform. Probably bad too. We always find ourselves choosing the best choice,
not always a good choice. It seems like in Alabama there are only two choices
and for Republicans at least, both may be bad. Bannon's comments are in
poor taste, which he is more than capable of. We live in a highly charged, very
divided country, and desperate people do desperate things.
@Johninsl - I am happy to admit that I was too young to pay much attention to
the Clinton affair. I don't know that anyone could forget the blue dress
though. If the worse thing Hillary did was fight to save her
marriage and "stand by her man" that is impressive to me. I remember
seeing her at a press conference and thinking about how humiliated she must be.
I would have more respect for her if she would have left him. They had a
daughter, and I guess it is hypocritical for me to say that I believe that
marriage is sacred and then criticize someone for keeping their family together.
She was more forgiving than I would have been.And as far as
her "disappearing" during the scandal, wouldn't you want to
disappear too? Wouldn't you want some privacy at the worst time in your
life? I can only imagine how incredibly hard that whole thing was for Hillary.
If 'enabling' is letting your husband spend time
unsupervised, then I guess I'm an enabler too. Hillary
wasn't a great candidate. If you think that everyone who doesn't like
Trump must love Hillary, I would respectfully disagree. I thought
Bill Clinton was disgusting. I wasn't going to vote for a man just as bad
as he was.
Romney said a lot of things during last years campaign and election which I did
not agree with. He has had a lot to say during the past year since the election
which I do not agree with. I believe that he is a very moderate, establishment
republican. I am a very conservative ex-republican. I am a very devoted LDS
person, but his politics do not mesh well with my principals. He seems to
dislike the rare politicians that keep their promises. My bigest problem with
Romney is he appears to be a carpet bagger. I don't believe he is a Utah
resident, as he was raised and lived his life in the northeast US. I am not
aware that he has lived in Utah except for some time during the winter olympics.
Why does Bannon need to attack Romney, and be such a blowhard? Trump
didn't serve either, so what? Our country has enough tough problems to
deal with without someone continually putting himself in the public eye, trying
to stir things up.
Tell us something new.
"The draft was reinstituted because nobody in their right mind was
volunteering for the armed services at that time. In the draft including Romney,
his number was 300. The highest number drafted from that draft was 195, so he
wouldn't have served."jpc53:The draft never
went away after WWII. The lottery system wasn't instituted until 1970,
applicable to those without deferments who were of draft age in calendar year
1971. I can truthfully say none of the fellow low number "winners" that
I knew begrudged anybody who was lucky enough to draw a high number or had a
legitimate deferment or disqualifying medical condition.To those
here who devalue our service during an "immoral war" (aren't they
all?) and doing nothing to defend our country (a la Hanoi Jane), or question why
we didn't get a deferment or go to Canada, most of us were proud to go and
do our patriotic chore. If that makes us war-mongers in the eyes of some, so be
it. But the real war-mongers were the politicians who, without a clearly defined
goal to either win or get out, got us there in the first place. It wasn't
those who served their country by answering its call.
Bannon is not a mormon. He is a bigot, he is disgusting, mis-informed and
desperate. And by the way my vote for Trump was forced by the other
option the liberals offered, supported by the hatred the media would have for
him. I knew Hillary would get off free win the White House (See Benghazi,
emails, whitewash, scrub, hammer and a phone...Bill)
The Governor didn’t call Governor Huckabee a bigot when he and the
evangelicals were saying similar phrases about Governor Romney during the 2012
Presidential election campaign. However, it is disgusting that
Senator Hatch is basically supporting Roy Moore who Steve Bannon is managing.
Bannon is trying to get the Evangelicals and Freedom people to vote for a woman
who allegedly abused and sexually assaulted when 14 years old. They are against
abortion more than child abusers.Many women that are sexually abused
or raped if under age have abortions. They don’t want to have the baby of
their rapist be part of their lives.Victims and spouses of the
abusers and rapists have a hard life to live.Senator Hatch has lost
Utah values. He hasn’t lived in Utah enough to really know what Utah
morality means. In Washington, DC, it is a little different with so many
politicals there.This President got elected shortly after Access
Hollywood surfaced. At first, people were offended but the reality of having a
Democrat as President pushed good people to vote for Mr Access Hollywood.Knowing that Russians hacked the campaign and voting processes, people
like bigots/alleged abusers.
"I haven't heard Hillary Clinton bragging about sexually assaulting
people. She is not her husband and his actions should not be used against her -
she was a victim of his disgusting behavior too."wgirl:Au contraire. Either you are willfully mis-remembering or are too
young to know that Hilary closed ranks with other libs when her husband was
first accused of sexually assaulting a woman while governor of Arkansas. Hilary
quoted Tammy Wynette's song, saying she would stand by her man. And she
all but disappeared during the Lewinsky scandal. She was an enabler. Calling
her a victim is an insult to the real victims--those Bill assaulted and took
Bannon was playing the Mormon card to get support from evangelicals. He’s
a manipulative politician above all else. “Mormon bigot” is one of
the nicer things Herbert could have said about him.
Mitt is a man of unblemished integrity and patriotism.Although I
think his political views are a bit squishy, and his attack on Trump was
excessively vitriolic, the attack on Romney is totally unwarranted bullying.Mitt deserves an apology, and Bannon should never be associated with
another political campaign ever.
The governor is wrong here. To be grammatically correct, Governor Herbert is a
Mormon bigot. Bannon is just a bigot. He might also be anti-semitic (according
to wiki). But I didn't see any mention of religion, so I guess Bannon
could be a goshless bigot.
Those of us who avoided serving in the Vietnam War used perfectly legal means to
do so, including student deferments and deferments for missionary service. (I
didn't attend college and serve a mission to avoid the war, per se. That
was merely a fringe benefit.)By 1968, it was quite apparent that the
war was a mistake. Who wanted to be the last person to die for a mistake?Thankfully, Nixon implemented a draft lottery in November 1969. My
number 232 kept me from being drafted after my deferments ran out.I
am proud to have been born and raised in Oregon, the state represented by Sen.
Wayne Morse, the earliest and most severe critic of the Vietnam War. There are
no visionary Wayne Morses among today's Utah congressional delegation.
And Bannon served during what conflict again? Refresh my memory...... this
from the man who couldn't keep married either.... three wives? And he is
lecturing us about Romney? This is the man that alt-right conservatives want
to shape the republican party? Conservatives can do a lot better than listen
to this ....... a lot better.For a party that is supposed to be
about family values.... can't they find a voice that isn't a serial
divorce? A man that can honor is martial vows?
Steve Bannon did not attack Mormons.Steve Bannon pushed back on Mitt
Romeny's statements.Mitt nor his 5 sons served in the wars
unlike Roy Moore. That was the point being made.Stever Bannon is
making the statement that putting one's life on the lineis an act of
@PatriotBoth Democrats and Republicans president's were involved in
keeping us in Vietnam, so you can't just blame the Dems. Ken Burns'
recent documentary explained it beautifully. God bless our troops and their
immeasurable sacrifices for us all.
I think there is a big problem in looking at 'morality' in a very
narrow view, with regard to Mr Trump and Mr Romney.I'm afraid
that morality is not all about loose conversation eleven years ago versus being
on a mission fifty years ago. I think it is about honesty for one thing and,
sorry Mitt, about not listening to gossip-based allegations and pre-judging the
accused and being so ready to traduce his character. That is very serious. I
can handle the loose talk of 11 years ago and appreciate the hard-working
missionary of the Sixties, but it is about now not then.I think we
live in the midst of a good many scribes and pharisees. I dare say Mr Romney
has many good points but so has Mr Trump and I see the latter as being a far
better man right now.
Perhaps Hatch and Romney should look more closely at what the Book of Mormon
actually says.The Book of Mormon talks all about a group of people
who built walls around their land to protect it from savages trying to cross the
border. It also talks about "king men" in high places who wanted to
unlawfully remove a duly elected leader. (Alma chapter 50 & 51).
Furthermore, it discusses the danger of secret organizations trying to run
governments from the shadows. (Helaman 6:25-26)It talks about the
United States being founded through Columbus by the spirit of God and that it is
"a land set above all others", and that it should be protected at all
costs. (1 Nephi 13)The Book of Mormon is a NATIONALIST book about
men who wanted to protect their freedoms, families and religion from foreign
influence. (Alma 46)
cjb - People who managed to avoid that war did their country no dis-service and
they were the smart ones. They were honorable,E.g
They left for
Canada, they tried to get diabetes, some did, they crossed dressed, they went
AWOL.And “Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord,
don't they help themselves It ain't me, it ain't no
millionaire's son, no It ain't me, it ain't me; I ain't
no fortunate one, no. (Romeny)was in Paris. I was in Saigon Vietnam .I was protested, spit on and cursed at San Francisco airport, from the smart
ones you like. The great majority of Vietnam Veterans are proud of their service
and would do it again.
There have been some comments that those who don't serve in the
military/war are "pathetic." I reject that assertion. There are many
people who served in the Vietnam war out of necessity and some volunteered. I
honor any who served. It doesn't make those who didn't serve bad
people. I hope I'm not "pathetic" because I didn't serve my
country in the military. Many incredible people don't serve in the
military. There are plenty of bad apples who do or have served in the military.
I think we can be a little more nuanced about this topic.
@BigJ I agree that politicians lie - but I stand by my assertion that nobody,
even our politicians, have done it at the level Trump does. "Obama was born
in Kenya...biggest crowd size ever...Obama bugged Trump tower." Hillary Clinton was a terrible candidate, I did not want to vote for her.
However, the Access Hollywood tape was the last straw. I could never vote for a
man who spoke that way about women. Never. I haven't heard Hillary Clinton
bragging about sexually assaulting people. She is not her husband and his
actions should not be used against her - she was a victim of his disgusting
behavior too. Democrats are not the Devil and Republicans are not
Saints. Neither party is the end all, be all. As their platforms change, people
need to be willing to look at the actions and values of the candidates and vote
accordingly. It is not a sin to vote for a person with a D behind their name.
Is this a joke? Bannon attacks Mitt Romney and conservative Mormons
are full-on attack on Romney?Is this for real? Mitt is a good moral
man. Trump is not a moral man. Roy Moore is not a moral man. Mitt is a good man!
What is wrong with you people?
@ patriot - Cedar Hills, UTDec. 6, 2017 12:33 p.m.Wow! I do
agree with you. May be you are more Liberal than you think :)
Imsmarterthanyou?“Would like to know exactly what court has
convicted Judge Roy Moore of sexually assaulting anyone? From my standpoint, and
the standpoint of the United States Constitution, Judge Moore is to be presumed
innocent until proven guilty at a legal trial by a jury of his peers and that
conviction must be based on actual evidence. Some crazy woman suddenly pointing
a finger and crying sexual assault 30 years ago simply doesn't do anything
but raise questions about the sanity and motivation of the woman. Accusing
someone of sexual assault seems to be the popular way for small cowards to lash
out and hurt others in this country of late. I think it should be a felony to
falsely accuse someone and the accuser should face the same penalty as the
accused should the charge not be proven. That would put a stop to it”.Deep yawn...Why wasn’t this ideology applied to Secretary Clinton
and President Obama? There has already been one comment from a member of the low
information demographic mentioning Obama releasing his college transcripts. Talk
about a stretch! Blaming/attacking any victims for their courage to step forward
regardless of the timing is simply beyond repulsive!
Eh... Bannon was over the top. It was uncalled for, and doesn't help his
cause.@Impartial7 "... Bannon, whom I dislike, is accurate in
pointing that out. It doesn't make him a "mormon bigot..."Admit it, for a moment you had to think about who you dislike more Bannon or
the LDS faith.The enemy of my enemy is temporarily my friend logic
It used to be that politicians would travel around the country and say different
things, make different claims depending on their audience. They might say one
thing in the South and say something completely different in the North, and then
say something else in the Midwest and West. The only reports came through news
stories in the national papers (local newspapers only printed what was said in
their particular area) which could be easily denied if necessary.Today we have video of these political comments and denial usually is not as
easy unless one takes the Donald Trump tactic of calling it "fake news"
knowing that the faithful will ignore what they have seen and place their faith
in whatever Trump tells them. This is also Steve Bannon's approach to
speaking before various regional audiences. He gets them all worked up by
appealing to their prejudices and bigotry knowing he can call it "fake"
whenever it suits his purpose and the faithful will swallow the lie like it was
a chocolate mint.It would be interesting if Bannon came to Utah to
campaign for Orrin Hatch and see if he said the same things about Mitt Romney
that he said in Alabama. It's doubtful, but some may like it.
Vietnam was a waste of a war. People who managed to avoid that war did their
country no dis-service and they were the smart ones.
Throughout the coming 2018 election cycle, every Republican candidate running
for Congress (and state legislatures) will be asked, "Do you support Roy
Moore?" If more wins a Senate seat in Alabama, the Republican Party will be
recognized as the Party that accepted a pedophile into its ranks with open
arms.Donald Trump only walked in on young girls dressing for a
beauty pageant. Moore actually stalked young girls and sexually abused several
according to testimony by those attacked by the man. The zero tolerance attitude
does not appear to include these Republicans, and may extend to all Republicans
by association. The Access Hollywood tape elicited outrage by many Republicans,
but was short-lived when it looked like Trump would be the Republican candidate.
So these Republicans (like those now who have chosen to accept Moore) gave in
and choked back the sour taste in their mouths.Steve Bannon's
appeal to anti-Mormon feeling in a Southern, evangelical audience is typical in
his campaign style. The sad part of this is that Bannon would probably be
welcomed with cheers and enthusiasm in Mormon Utah since he would utilize
talking points chosen specifically for that audience.
I happily went to France on my mission rather than go to Viet Nam. Romney did
the same. To say otherwise would be lying.
I wonder what Bannon’s Service record is. We know about Trump. Had an on
been in Iraq or Afghanistan then I would pay more attention to his criticism.
Not much more, but more.
Cowards calling Romney a coward?Go figure.
Steve Bannon is not a "Mormon bigot." Romney attacked Trump during the
critical stages of the campaign and there is no love lost between Bannon and
Romney. This is politics. It's not necessary or wise to make a religious
issue out of it. Those who oppose and seek to destroy Pres. Trump would have
Hillary Clinton be the president.
It is necessary to understand the strategy behind Steve Bannon's comments.
He is talking to a Southern, evangelical audience, firm in their belief that
they are right and everyone outside their group, wrong and perhaps sinful and
evil, standard complaint about their "enemy". In fact, to them,
Democrats represent everything they are against. Democrats are slandered as
"anti-moral", "anti-religion", and "anti-American".
Having been spoon-fed this ideology for decades, they have come to believe it a
basic element in their religion.Also, the appeal of Bannon's
words goes far beyond mere politics. It extends to the basic view that Mormons
are "the other" and should be condemned as not like them. Evangelicals
consider Mormons not be Christian because of the peculiarities of the Mormon
faith in their eyes. Just like Muslims, Mormons are outside their world. This is
similar to the attitude toward Catholics except where Catholics support some of
their world view.This religious bigotry is central to Bannon's
appeal. This for a man who attacks Romney, his family and religion while Donald
Trump avoided service with a bogus bone spur claim and his own sons never
served. It is all hypocrisy.
"Romney should have gone to Viet Nam and taken a shot at converting the Viet
Cong to Mormonism."Really? I hope you're kidding. If not,
just wrong as usual. You really think Romney's only motivation to serve a
mission was to avoid getting drafted? You don't think there could have
possibly been any other reason? You really think he wouldn't have served a
mission if there was no war?
@Imsmarterthanyou"I would like to know exactly what court has
convicted Judge Roy Moore of sexually assaulting anyone? "Consider all of the recent sexual abuse allegations from Congress to Hollywood
to everything else... almost none of them have any sort of conviction attached
to them but there was a huge wave of recent accusations of events years or
decades ago. Why? Because after Weinstein people felt more comfortable and less
alone coming forward.
@wgirl - Salt Lake City, UTSpeaking of President Trump you said:
"...lies at a level never seen before in our country"The
better statement would be: "lies at the level of many in politics."The shocking thing is most of you voted for President Trump or Mrs.
Clinton. The only difference between the two is their gender. Shame on all of
you!As for Romney... he broke no laws to avoid military service.
I was a teenager and in my twenties during the Vietnam War era. I also remember
how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints made an agreement with the
US government regarding the drafting of Mormon boys and men in missionary
service during the Vietnam War. Mormons of all ages were shown to serve in the
United States armed services and did their own fair share in the conflict. Steve
Bannon obviously did not check the facts before shooting off his mouth and
demonstrating his anti-Mormon bigotry. This shows why President Trump fired him.
Also, President Trump told the news media recently that Mitt Romney was a
"good man". I would recommend to Donald Trump, Mitt Romney to serve as
Secretary of State if Rex Tillerson resigns from that post.
How was serving in Vietnam defending America?Was it worth the
expense and lives of our nation?
Lest we all forget, Bannon was the architect of Trump's domestic policy.
And although he was pushed out during the middle-school drama of Trump's
first few months, Bannon remains indistinguishable from Trump in terms of
tactics and ideology. They are the face, heart, and soul of the current
Republican party.It was inevitable that Trump or Bannon would get
around to isolating Mormons/LDS as "The Other" if and when it made
sense to work up the GOP 'base' into a lather. Utah is a long way
from Alabama, and for all the blather about religious freedom, for certain
Christian sects in the Bible Belt, LDS is a long way from what they consider to
be Christianity.This is deja vu all over again. Trump
used African American football players as "The Other" at the rally for
Moore's primary opponent, Luther Strange. At the time, only a handful of
players were quietly carrying on Colin Kaepernicks's silent protest during
the national anthem, with little fan-fare and zero relevance to the
Strange-Moore contest. But they were an easy target to rile up the emotions and
resentments of a largely White audience in the Deep South.
GaryO: " I’m still waiting to find out why Trump refuses to release
his income tax returns. What is it he’s hiding behind?"Did
you ask the same questions when Obama refused to release his college
transcripts? Or when Hillary refused to release the emails that were under
subpoena? Or when the FBI refuses to turn over information about its
investigation of Hillary? Or the DNC when it would not let law enforcement
examine the server that was hacked?There is probably something in
the tax returns that Trump does not want us to see (or at least give the press
some more ammo). Like every politician, he does not want us to know certain
things about his private life. Some things we have the right to know, others we
don't.Until you are willing to condemn leftists for doing the
same thing and automatically suspect that they are hiding some kind of criminal
behavior every time they won't turn something over; then your calls for
only Republicans to turn everything over is just hypocrisy.
Oh the irony! Unfortunately, the low information, enabling, apologists have
absolutely no idea that the Supreme Leader’s right hand man is attacking
their own religion at the attempt of defending a child predator! Possibly now
you are aware the feelings of those which are Muslim? Then again just read the
comments which still offer unwavering support. Country before party comrades!
Thank you and Happy Holidays!
I would like to know exactly what court has convicted Judge Roy Moore of
sexually assaulting anyone? From my standpoint, and the standpoint of the United
States Constitution, Judge Moore is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty
at a legal trial by a jury of his peers and that conviction must be based on
actual evidence. Some crazy woman suddenly pointing a finger and crying sexual
assault 30 years ago simply doesn't do anything but raise questions about
the sanity and motivation of the woman. Accusing someone of sexual assault
seems to be the popular way for small cowards to lash out and hurt others in
this country of late. I think it should be a felony to falsely accuse someone
and the accuser should face the same penalty as the accused should the charge
not be proven. That would put a stop to it.
I suspect Romeny did use all sorts of influence to avoid VietNam so Bannon is
probably correct...but in this case I would have done the same thing. I honor
every soldier who served in Nam -- my neighbor when I was young lost their son
in Viet Nam. Nam was a living nightmare created by uncaring politians
(Democrat's in this case) that no 19 year old kid should have ever been
subjected to. It is weird but I honor the soldiers who fought and I respect the
protestors as well. WWII was totally different in that we were attacked and our
very existance was on the line as a nation against the Nazi war machine and
Japan emperor. We had to fight and my dad did and received the purple heart
while fighting in Italy against the Germans. I don't like to criticize
anyone for Viet Nam whether they fought or protested. It was a bad war that
should have never been.
Steve Bannon is such a wonderful example to us all...of what not to say, do, or
@eastcoastcoug: "I'm so disappointed to see so many LDS and BYU people
coming to the defense of someone who's quite credibly accused of sexual
molestation of young girls""Credible" is up for debate.
Moore denies the allegations. His wife supports him. His life the last 20
years has been under a microscope and these kinds of allegations never surfaced.
There are some contradictions and obvious partisan motivations in the
allegations and the timing of release.I'm disappointed to see
so many who object to injecting religion into politics suddenly injecting
religion into politics as a reason to pillory those who pick one less than
perfect candidate over a different less than perfect candidate.Neither of us know whether Moore molested anyone.We do know,
however, that his Democrat opponent is fully supportive of legal elective
abortion on demand. The immorality of elective abortions is not open for
debate among LDS, and Elder Oaks "Weightier Matter" article in the
Ensign should pretty much close any claims of "agency" being a valid
reason for being politically pro-choice. Elect Moore finish the
investigation and expel if appropriate. Don't reward partisan media.
I wish I could say I didn't see this coming...Mormons are an
easy target. Trump and Bannon both know that. Republicans know how most
Evangelicals and the majority of their 'religious right' base feel
about Mormons. They are going to feed that hate and use it to their advantage.
That is what they do.This is the problem with looking the other way
when these men were attacking other groups and other people. This is the problem
with justifying a vote for a man who is an adulterer, a fraud, brags about
sexual assault and lies at a level never seen before in our country. Utah's
votes went to Trump.I remember a story from my Sunday School days
about a boy that was convinced to pick up a snake and carry him up a mountain.
When they got to the top, the snake bit the boy. He cried out in pain, "how
could you do that to me? I was your friend!" The snake replied, "you
knew what I was when you picked me up."
The draft was reinstituted because nobody in their right mind was volunteering
for the armed services at that time. In the draft including Romney, his number
was 300. The highest number drafted from that draft was 195, so he wouldn't
Hey Craig Clark -Re: "Gary O,"Did Romney
hide behind his faith to avoid serving in Viet Nam?"____________________It’s a fair question but it’s just as
likely that Mitt was sincere. I’m still waiting to find out why Trump
refuses to release his income tax returns. What is it he’s hiding
behind?"Romney should have gone to Viet Nam and taken a shot at
converting the Viet Cong to Mormonism.As for what Trump is hiding .
. . He's hiding as much as he can.But I bet Mueller has an idea
about what is in those tax returns though.
Bannon and Trump are the ideal and perfect disciples of Jesus Christ. They are
so Christlike! I wish we can all be like them, and what a wonderful world this
To be fair, Mr. Bannon is not just a Mormon Bigot. He has a wide range of
bigotry . . .
Bannon's a professional internet troll. Why give any weight to his
I am trying to figure out how one can equate serving a mission as hiding behind
a religion to avoid military service??? Obviously there was a caveat in the
draft that precluded individuals from the draft if there were in religious
service. So are they trying to say that an individual should give up their
service to God to serve their country? So then they are ridiculing an
individual for choosing God over Country? Was Romney still eligible for the
draft after he came home? This accusation is ridiculous, and to show
contempt to Romney's sons for not serving is equally ridiculous! Unless
that is the litmus test that all politicians need to be measured by, their
military service. If that were the case then many of our politicians would be
under the same stain. Our country could not sustain the scrutiny. The premise
is flawed, and completely wrong. I am confident that citizens of the U.S. can
see this, and it is too bad that he is able to get as much press as he does.I would like to say that I am very grateful for those that do serve, and their
service is priceless, I am proud to say that my daughter is included in that
Whenever someone calls Herbert a name, the gov call them out for incivility.
Now, the gov calls Bannon a bigot, and he gets a pass. Hypocracy at work.
People say things and have attitudes about Mormons they'd never get away
with if it were another minority. That being said, Governor Hebert doesn't
need to defend Romney and his family. He didn't change anyone's minds.
Herbert's vehement defense would be so much better used to
target vile behavior toward women, or against an accused child molester, or a
commander-in-chief who behaves poorly. Where is all the outrage against that?
His silence speaks volumes.
Never thought I’d vote again for Hatch, but Herbert and Romney have made
me enthusiast of another Hatch term.
Politics as usual. But since the last election in particular American
politicians are sinking lower and lower. I recall the days when our nations
elected officials were statesmen who worked across the aisles; as each party
strove to make America a better place. Now it is worse then a civil war;
mudslinging, personal attacks resulting in a country that is literally splitting
Glass houses, sir. In particular, one glass house. In Manhattan. With
"TRUMP TOWER" written on the side.(How are those bone spurs
treating you, Mr. President?)
When Romney was of age to serve in Viet Nam, there was no all volunteer
military. The draft was well in place. With that said and as someone who
served during that time, I do not begrudge Romney nor anyone else who followed
their conscience and did what they felt was right for them, including serving a
mission. Bannon is way out of line, especially since his buddy Trump had no
excuse. At least a mission was a worth alternative. And before the uber left
jumps on the band wagon, can you say "Bill Clinton."
I'm so disappointed to see so many LDS and BYU people coming to the defense
of someone who's quite credibly accused of sexual molestation of young
girls (doesn't matter if it happened yesterday or 700 years ago). Waiting
for some court to decide is just an excuse. If you don't get how this is a
'stain' on our party, I'm sorry for you. It's pretty plain
when talking abstractly in Sunday School but when we hit Monday and talk
politics, suddenly morality is all relative to which side you're on. This
is the heart of the problem.Wrong is wrong, and it's worse when
it's our side talking up morality and our standard bearers are corrupt. We
can't claim moral superiority on anyone.
Gary O,"Did Romney hide behind his faith to avoid serving in Viet
Nam?"____________________It’s a fair question but
it’s just as likely that Mitt was sincere. I’m still waiting to find
out why Trump refuses to release his income tax returns. What is it he’s
I don't often agree with Romney or Herbert, but I would consider a
condemnation by Steve Bannon to be a badge of honor. I hope that I live my life
in a way that Steve Bannon would find everything about me repulsive.
Of course Steve Bannon is an (anti) Mormon Bigot. So too is Gov Mike Huckabee.
So too are a lot of southern evangelical, republican voters. And so are a lot
of people who routinely post to this forum but today are suddenly defending
Romney or condemning Bannon.None will get my vote.Mormons are not terribly popular in many, many circles. We never have been,
and never will be. We should not expect to be. The scriptures are clear that
those who follow God are not going to be popular.And the fact is, a
whole lot of people decided there were far better things to do with their lives
than risk or sacrifice them in the rice paddies of Southeast Asia. Some avoided
service illegally. Some used perfectly legal means such as college or religious
service deferments. Some used family or political connections to get safer
assignments Stateside or in other non-combat areas. Many were drafted and
served honorably. Some honorably volunteered.Generally speaking,
poor people fought in Vietnam while those with some means tended to avoid
that.The issues of military service during Vietnam or since, need to
stop being bandied about as political footballs.
@SadSack-YOU wouldn't pay attention to him...but the people who
disturb me most DO pay attention to him
We have a voluntary military so I don't begrudge anybody for not serving.
But the governor and others are going way too far in equating missionary service
or any other volunteer service to that of military service. Both are great in
different ways but they are far from the same, and the honor of missionary
service should in no way be considered an alternative to the honor of military
service.Bannon is a fool and a political opportunist. We can
denounce what he says without equating the two. Romney chose not to serve in the
military as did his sons, and that's fine. Overall he's spent his time
focused on far better endeavors than our current president and his family, who
incidentally have also never served in the military (or in any volunteer
capacity as far as I can tell).
it is true that but for the mission romney would have been at risk of going to
the Nam. So he is technically a draft dodger. plus he missed out on a lot of
fun and good friendships. yeah, i would say that bannon is correct.
“The personal attacks here, which have no role in really good quality
debate on issues, this smacks of good old-fashioned Mormon bigotry. I think
that’s what Steve Bannon has demonstrated with his comment. He’s a
Mormon bigot,” Herbert said on KSL Newsradio's "The Doug Wright
Show."Isn't calling Bannon a "Mormon bigot"
considered a personal attack nowadays?I'm still hoping for one
person in politics today to display some professionalism in just one particular
situation, and refrain from the negative counter punching that seems to be the
norm today. I think our governor could have handled his words better than the
did.BTW, I'm as far from being a Bannon supporter as one can
Romney attacked Trump for not serving in Vietnam War. Double standard?
Remind me again what Donald J. Trump was doing "while guys were dying in
rice paddies in Vietnam."Sorry repubs - he's your boy.
So why is it okay for Romney to say negative comments and not get any blowback?
While Bannon should be thanked for his seven years of military service,
it's interesting that he too avoided serving until the Vietnam war was
over, using college deferments to complete a degree, THEN signing up. Probably
why he suggested college deferments were ok...
I like Steve Bannon, so I'm disappointed in his attack on Romney's
faith. Bannon was obviously playing to the Bible-belt evangelicals.I like Mitt Romney, so I'm disappointed that he characterized a possible
election of Roy Moore as "a stain." He was obviously playing to the
establishment RINO-types (his constituency). (Surely Romney is aware of
"due process." If Roy Moore is guilty as accused, a pox on him! But
doesn't it seem odd that in his 40+ years in public life, the horrible
accusations being leveled at him were never made earlier? That kinda bothers
me.)I like Orrin Hatch (the poster boy for establishment RINO). But
he's stayed well past his prime. The nation will survive, even if Orrin
does what he's pledged to do on several occasions, and retires.
@ImpartialBannon isn't 'accurate'. He's way off
topic. His own boss DJTrump didn't serve and with far less of an excuse.
This is Whataboutism. This was about Moore and his sexual assaults.This protesting is just so rich coming hours after Trump spent the entire day
with the Utah GOP and pretending to be friends. Reminds me of the old story of a
man who picked up a snake and kept it warm in his coat until it bit him. And
when he protested, the snake said: "You know what I was when you picked me
Bannon is Alt-rightThe alt-right as well as the progressive left are
From what I saw of Bannon's performance on TV, he certainly is not anyone
that I would pay a whole lot of attention to.
RE: "Bannon accused Mitt Romney of hiding behind his LDS faith to avoid
serving in Vietnam."Well? . . . Did he?Did Romney
hide behind his faith to avoid serving in Viet Nam?I noticed that
governor Gary Hebert never actually disagreed with Bannon on that point. And
neither have any of the commenters here.
Thanks for showing that you too Gov Herbert are a part of the Swamp!
The Republican establishment has embraced Bannon, Trump, Moore and all they
represent for a few fleeting moments of power. Enjoy the sugar high, because
the crash is going to be painful.
Like many Mormons at the time including myself, Romney should have served in the
military and completed a mission too. A lot of us did. In fact, during the
Vietnam War the Church put a cap on the number of missionaries called except
those who completed or were doing military service. So Mitt did hide behind the
Church to avoid military service. And his five sons? No military service?
Moore waves the Bible around a lot but Romney gave two years of his life to the
cause of his faith. That doesn’t make either more sincere than the other
but how they live their lives does speak louder than words.
While I don't agree with Bannon (except that Romney lacks integrity), he
did not say anything about Mormonism.
"Hey Doc..is that a piece of beef jerky on your desk?""No--that's Steve Bannon's liver."
It's not just Mormon.
Bannon's comment was ridiculous, particularly about Romney's sons.That being said, Romney is not a paragon of integrity.
Bannon is simply a political opportunist who is cynically capitalizing on
deep-rooted anti-Mormon sentiment among southern evangelicals to garner votes
for an alleged sexual predator of underage girls.And those in his
audience can take comfort in knowing that our current president, whom Bannon
helped elect, didn’t “hide behind his religion” to avoid the
From my point of view it would seem that Steve Bannon is full of himself. A
Republican replica of Democrat Michael Moore.
Bannon just assured that I will vote for Romney.
Correction, Guv.We have too many republicans in politics.
Steve Bannon is Trump's self described Wingman/alterego.The
entire UTAH Republican delegation as well as those who voted for Trump, spent
all day Monday praising/saluting 45.Bannon's
comments/attacks... today... prove the love fest Monday was a political
mirage.C'est la vie.
With a 'friend' like Bannon, who needs an enemy ?
A vote for Trump is a vote for Bannon. If you voted for Trump, you get to own
his longstanding relationship and implicit support for Bannon.
Total overreaction by the Governor. Playing the persecution card. Romney did use
his mission to avoid Vietnam. Bannon, whom I dislike, is accurate in pointing
that out. It doesn't make him a "mormon bigot". (ps- he's not
The interesting thing is Bannon does not seem to attack Senator Lee.