Letter: War is not the answer

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  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 14, 2018 10:13 a.m.

    To "airnaut" tell us what is the difference between a conflict and a war. They both involve people killing each other. If it is just a "conflict", then why is it always referred to as the Korean War? Including in official documents by the US government?

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    Feb. 14, 2018 8:45 a.m.

    Redshirt1701 - Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 13, 2018

    To "airnaut" once again, you are wrong. The US is still at war with North Korea through the UN. the ceasefire was an agreement between North Korea, South Korea, and the UN (lead by the US).

    Utah Soldier - Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018

    @airnaut

    If the US was not at war (and we can dissect the word "war" if you would like), why did North Korea approach the US in late 2015 with a proposal for a peace treaty (an actual end of the war (or whatever word you choose to use))?

    =========

    To Redshirt -- once again, you are wrong.

    The Korean War was a war between North Korea (with the support of China and the Soviet Union) and South Korea (with support from the United States).

    The United States in Korea was a "conflict".
    NOT a "war".

    Just like Vietnam, Panama, Lebanon, Cold, Gulf, Afghan, Iraq, Libya, Terror, Drugs, Christmas or anything you want to call a "war".

    The Constitution clearly states that only Congress can declare war, so they are all technically conflicts.

    I have military service ribbons and none of them were for wars, but "conflicts".

    Please stop your 'war' against the Constitution.
    I have sworn to defend it.

    Thank you.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 7:32 p.m.

    War is the most profitable business ever conceived.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Feb. 13, 2018 3:24 p.m.

    To Redshirt it is for you to decide if it is good or bad.

    What I wanted to know is if you think it is good that Pence didn't stand for a staunch and faithful ally when there athletes marched on to the field in Pyeongchon. Is South Korea now an enemy who is dating my ex-girl friend?

    Sorry if there are any errors in this; I typed it while I was walking my ilk.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 2:47 p.m.

    To "my_two_cents_worth" it is for you to decide if it is good or bad.

    What I wanted to know is if you think it is bad that Pence didn't stand for a brutal dictator that kills the people of his country. Is North Korea now our ally?

    Would you stand for your best friend who is now dating your worst enemy? Or would you tell your friend that you can't support them getting involved with your enemy?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 1:08 p.m.

    what is even more disturbing than the evil from the North Korean government is the uniformed gullibility here in the United States -- being so easily manipulated by obvious propaganda by the North Korean regime. Kim is laughing hard I'm quite certain at the useful idiots from CNN and NBC who lush all over the North Korean minister of propaganda at the Olympics (his sister). This is actually her role in the North Korean government. Like Hitler and the Nazi SS of the 1930's and 40's, propaganda is a lethal weapon used for manipulation of the general population and today the same sort of evil characters (North Korea) use propaganda in the same fashion. Today however there really is no excuse for people here in the United States to be so ignorant of facts with the internet and free exchange of information. The poor citizen of North Korea are banned from the internet and live literally in the dark.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Feb. 13, 2018 1:06 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701

    So you are saying it is good that Pence didn't stand to show his support of an ally who will suffer unimaginable death and destruction should war come to South Korea?

    Again, how is it a good thing to snub our closest ally? An ally whi supported us in Vietnam, the Gulf War, OEF & OIF?

    Oops, time to take my ilk out for his walk.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 12:05 p.m.

    Carolin Cady needs to spend a little internet time doing some research on North Korea and the Kim regime. A little information always helps before writing a letter to the editor. Five minutes on google would do it. This is letter is so uninformed that I'm surprised the Deseret News even printed it.

  • Utah Soldier Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 11:35 a.m.

    @airnaut

    If the US was not at war (and we can dissect the word "war" if you would like), why did North Korea approach the US in late 2015 with a proposal for a peace treaty (an actual end of the war (or whatever word you choose to use))?

    Shouldn't North Korea have approached South Korea instead of the US?

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 13, 2018 10:27 a.m.

    To "airnaut" once again, you are wrong. The US is still at war with North Korea through the UN. the ceasefire was an agreement between North Korea, South Korea, and the UN (lead by the US).

    To "pragmatistferlife" but we have done what we can to take care of the North Korean people. Food can be shipped over there, and has been shipped there. However, the distribution of the food is what you should be concerned with. In 2005 we sent them 50,000 tons of food and fuel. Every few years we send them a few ships full of food.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 9:11 a.m.

    2bits, "Quit constantly blaming America for NK's decisions Leftists and Democrats"

    Quit twisting the conversation 2bits. You don't have to "blame" America when you simply state the fact that our "crippling" sanctions have a direct impact on the health and welfare of the North Korean people. A fact you righties need to acknowledge and own when you push for more sanctions. It could be Kim's "fault" but still a fact.

    And before you get too high on your horse about starving Koreans there are at least 17+ million "households" in America that are food insecure. "Blame" who you want just a fact.

    the United States provided the North over $1.3 billion in assistance, mostly food aid and energy assistance, between 1995 and 2008. Since early 2009, the U.S. has withheld all types of humanitarian aid to North Korea, while denying any connection between its political relations with the regime and humanitarian assistance.

    So according to Trump, we're not punishing them for nukes..just starving them.

  • airnaut Everett, WA
    Feb. 13, 2018 9:06 a.m.

    Utah Soldier - Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    Technically, we are currently at War with North Korea and have been so since 25 June 1950.
    ======
    No --
    "technically" South Korea is still at War with North Korea.

    North Korea has never attacked America
    and
    Congress has never declared war.

    ======
    ======

    @2 bits - Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 3:06 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon
    What you were taught... MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) is right, and it works, and it has worked to keep nukes from being used anywhere in the world for the generations since Nukes were first invented.

    Nobody "wins" in Nuclear War. That is true. MAD works, and has worked, as long as everybody involved believes in MAD.

    ====

    and
    China and Russia have both promised to gang up retaliate with nukes on America if Trump is stupid enough to order a nuclear first strike against North Korea.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 9:01 a.m.

    The Dems were all for war at the time the last presidential election was running and they later applauded Trump when they thought he was going to war with Syria, returning to their cat-calls when he didn't. We don't all have a problem with memory, short or long-term. The Dems have played both sides of that game. (We piped for you but you did not dance, Mr Trump; we wept for you but you did not mourn - THAT game).

    If war is to be avoided at all it will be because President Trump has built up the military for optimum defense and legally removed the most obviously unpatriotic (sympathisers with the enemy ) from office. I hope it can be done.

    It is a little difficult, though, when during the former administration fifteen percent of our uranium was placed in the hands of Russia.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:32 a.m.

    To "Ernest T. Bass" Obama was a Republican?? If Obama was a Democrat, can you tell us what he ordered to be dropped on Libya and on ISIS strongholds in Syria? Can you also tell us what he had the military dropping on terrorists throughout the Mideast?

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:31 a.m.

    @Impartial "Pence's behavior was embarrassing, on the world's biggest stage."

    So you're ok with NFL players not standing for the Pledge of Allegiance but you are embarrassed that Pence didn't stand for the most brutal dictatorship in the world today.

    @Ernest "The GOP doesn't know what to do with themselves if they can't bomb some poor country, on the other side of the globe, into submission."

    That's an interesting comment considering it was Democrats who took us into WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and Vietnam.

    @unrepentant "Nothing about trump makes much sense, so you answered your own question."

    I'd like you to answer my question.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 13, 2018 8:20 a.m.

    The GOP doesn't know what to do with themselves if they can't bomb some poor country, on the other side of the globe, into submission.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:55 a.m.

    To "my_two_cents_worth" so you are saying it is bad that Pence didn't stand to show his support of a brutal dictator that kills people who stand in his way or question his authority.

    Again, how is a bad thing to snub a brutal dictator and their government?

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Feb. 13, 2018 6:42 a.m.

    Husker 2

    Nothing about trump makes much sense, so you answered your own question.

  • my_two_cents_worth university place, WA
    Feb. 12, 2018 5:35 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701

    "Can any liberal explain how Pence not applauding for a regieme that is starving its own people is a bad thing?"

    No one's asking him to, but when he didn't stand when the combined Korean team entered the stadium at the opening ceremony he snubbed not only North Korea but his host (president Moon) and our ally...kinda like the way he snubbed the 60,000-plus Colts fans who stood for the National Anthem only to see him turn his back on them and depart in a (pre-planned) huff.

    I'd stay and chat longer but it's time to take my ilk for a walk. Later.

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    Feb. 12, 2018 4:48 p.m.

    I’d like someone on the Left to explain just why Trump would want to start a nuclear war. He’s a billionaire who lives a life of luxury. I doubt he’s eager to live in a concrete bunker for the rest of his life while he waits for radiation levels to go down. It makes no sense.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 3:39 p.m.

    Never in all my years have I been ashamed to admit that I am an American -- and never have I had more fear for our futures than I have now as I watch the insanity of our current administration.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 3:06 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon
    What you were taught... MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) is right, and it works, and it has worked to keep nukes from being used anywhere in the world for the generations since Nukes were first invented.

    Wars have happened since then, but no nukes.

    Nobody "wins" in Nuclear War. That is true. MAD works, and has worked, as long as everybody involved believes in MAD.

    The problem is... MAD doesn't deter some groups in our world.

    Islamic Terrorists want to die, and they are OK with everybody they know becoming martyrs (including their children). They think it is their Destiny to bring about MAD. So MAD isn't a "deterrent" to them, it is their "goal".

    That's a problem. That's why Iran not getting Nukes is so important.

    Same goes for North Korea. They are so obsessed with the West, and so paranoid and their people so completely convinced that we are out to get them... they they are OK with most of their population being incinerated if they can just inflict some damage on their perceived "enemies" first.

    MAD doesn't work for people with this mind-set. MAD only works for people who love their family and nation more than they hate their enemy.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 3:04 p.m.

    @Emerger "Congress has not made an official declaration of war since WWII, yet our nation has been engaged in one military conflict (war) after another."

    Right. My question was how S.2047 would change anything.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 2:36 p.m.

    Carolin,
    Do some research beyond what your America hating friends tell you.

    Read "Nuclear tests generate aid money for North Korea - CNBC.com"...

    CNBC:
    "North Korea's nuclear aggression buys the country billions in aid money, according to Tufts University professor Sung-Yoon Lee. ... Over the past quarter-century, the pariah state has amassed $20 billion worth of cash, food, fuel, and medicine from the U.S.".

    "Washington sent $1.3 billion in unconditional aid to the rogue nation between 1995 and 2008. About 60 percent of that was for food aid, with the remainder going to energy assistance".

    "President Barack Obama's administration sent $1 million for flood relief via the United Nations in January this year before President Donald Trump took office".

    "South Korea has officially given its northern neighbor $7 billion between 1998 and 2007 in cash, food, fertilizer, medical supplies and the like".

    Read "US Humanitarian Aid Goes to North Korea Despite Nuclear Tensions"...

    We are not the bad guys.

    Sanctions are the stick that go along with the carrot (US aid). Both are needed.

    Question:
    Is it possible something Trump admin is doing is working in Korea?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, WA
    Feb. 12, 2018 2:31 p.m.

    Having actually served in the USAF in the nuclear weapons division let tell you the truth...

    NOBODY "wins" in a nuclear war.

    In our training missions we were told this --
    think of your wives,
    think of your children,
    think of your parents, grandparents,
    uncles, aunts cousins,
    teachers, preachers, couches,
    anyone and everyone you EVER knew or loved in life.
    childhood friends, pet dogs, school mates -- everyone.

    Now - imagine they are all dead,
    vaporized, smoke and ashes.

    You now only have one job and one job only now...
    that is to take out the son of a bees who did this to them, to you, and to your country.

    I repeat --
    NOBODY "wins" in a nuclear war.
    You just guarantee we won't all die alone.

    Enough said...

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 2:14 p.m.

    @Emerger
    RE: "Yes, there are hardships for many people in NK, and much of it is cause by the long-term, debilitating sanctions our country have placed on that nation for years"...
    ---
    Yes... USA is the Bad Guy (not their leaders and their decisions).

    The USA is starving the people in North Korea (not their own government and their decisions).

    And by "debilitating sanctions"... do you mean the USA reducing the amount of aid we send to North Korea?

    Know how much financial aid we send to NK every year?

    Money taken from good hard working tax payers in America, and shipped off to NK (and other countries who hate us).

    I remember huge shipments of food and heating fuel we sent to NK when Bush was President to save the people of NK that winter. The deal was supposed to be a we ship them food and heating oil and they would dismantle their Nuclear Weapons program. We shipped them to food and the oil... and they started dismantling it. But then they restarted their Nuclear program.

    Our faut?

    Or their leaders and their decision's fault?

    Quit constantly blaming America for NK's decisions Leftists and Democrats. We are not the bad guys.

    Wake up Leftists.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Feb. 12, 2018 2:05 p.m.

    There are those who keep insisting that the media is the enemy of truth and seeks only to discredit the president.

    Well, Fox does not do that. Nor does Breitbart or most any AM talk radio station. Even the Wall Street Journal is a cheerleader for the president. How much more mainstream does that get?

    The problem that these trump apologists have is that the other media reports what the president says. Much of what he says is utter balderdash, and easily disproved or pointed out to be bigoted or just plain mean spiritied.

    If pointing out that the president tweets and other remarks are untrue or destructive, then please explain to me otherwise.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 1:51 p.m.

    RE: "As Trump beats the war drums"...
    ---
    Hello Carolin,
    You blame Trump (not Obama) for everything bad, but none of the good. You forgot this unprecedented coming together happened when Trump was President. Maybe what he did worked?

    This never happened when Obama was President. Not once. Not even close. And we had 4 Olympic Games. And he never accomplished this. If he had... I bet you (and Democrats, and the Media) would have praised Obama with how awesome he was that he was able to make this happen.

    I couldn't believe when I heard this was actually going to happen (I almost couldn't believe it). And all the Media guy they interviewed about it could say was negative.

    He said, "This is either the beginning of a new era of world of peace we haven't known for 40+ years (rolling his eyes as if that could happen)... OR... it's the start of the end (as if after the games NK is going to start nuking people right and left).

    This is how ridiculous our national media has gotten with their Anti-Trump propaganda. And they control our thoughts! And our view of the world.

    The media would choke on their words if they had to say something positive about our President.

  • No One Of Consequence West Jordan, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 1:33 p.m.

    This letter seems to equate sanctions with war, when in fact they are an attempt to prevent war. The sanctions stand as proof that we are trying to avoid war.

    If I am not mistaken we have been at war with North Korea in partnership with the UN for almost 7 decades and are under the longest cease-fire in modern times.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Feb. 12, 2018 12:28 p.m.

    Can any liberal explain how Pence not applauding for a regieme that is starving its own people is a bad thing? Your ilk tells us how great the Football players are that are taking a knee during the Anthem, yet now Pence is horrible for silently protesting an actual dictator that kills his own people including his brothers?

    To "Impartial7 " and by constituents, you mean YOU. The facts are the Utah delegation does what the people of Utah want most of the time.

    To "Utefan60" would you rather Trump take the Obama approach and let North Korea or any other dictator or uprising to just roll over any country they want? Tell us, did Obama make Libya safer or more dangerous? (hint, it is now run by Terrorists)

  • barfolomew Tooele, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 12:06 p.m.

    "It’s time to be peace builders and use diplomacy with North Korea"

    Yes, because it has worked so well for decades, now.

    I believe it was Albert Einstein who said, "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

  • Utefan60 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 11:52 a.m.

    Never saw such drivel. Anti Trumpers are always trying to demean him..........this is my favorite Trump comment today. His supporters just keep trying to walk the thinner and thinner line of absolute ridiculousness.

    Trump is his own worst enemy and he is getting worse by the minute.

    Honest and decent Americans con no longer support his increasingly disturbing behaviors. If you do then you are a problem also. The GOP is a huge problem here too.

    So if we are trying to demean him, yup you are right. But it sure is with a lot of help from the buffoon himself.

  • Utah Soldier Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    Technically, we are currently at War with North Korea and have been so since 25 June 1950. We have been in a jointly agreed upon cease-fire that has existed since 27 July 1953. In theory, either side could end the cease fire by re-initiating hostilities. If you look at the history since 1953, North Korea has been the side that has undertaken activities (Pueblo incident in 1968, Axe murder in 1976, bombing of South Korea Island in 2010) that could've led to an end to the cease-fire.. All President Trump is doing is talking big keep North Korea from re-initiating hostilities.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 11:41 a.m.

    "It’s time to be peace builders and use diplomacy with North Korea...."

    Does that imply that diplomacy was not used by Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama? Their diplomacy resulted in the current situation with NK's ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons. True, Pres. Trump doesn't know what to do, but then neither did any of his predecessors.

  • Emerger Magna, Salt Lake, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 11:09 a.m.

    To Husker2 - Aspen, CO, who wrote: ". . . In the meantime, millions of North Koreans are dying of starvation and lack of medical care."

    That's what U.S. propaganda would like us to believe but, knowing our government tends to be frequently short on the truth (they lie a lot), I simply don't believe it comes even close to be as bad as they say. Yes, there are hardships for many people in NK, and much of it is most likely cause by the long-term, debilitating sanctions our country have placed on that nation for years.

  • Emerger Magna, Salt Lake, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 10:57 a.m.

    To Nate - Pleasant Grove, UT:
    Congress has not made an official declaration of war since WWII, yet our nation has been engaged in one military conflict (war) after another. Yes, Congress still has the constitutional authority to make that determination, but they have failed to use it, and have allowed the Executive Branch to determine when and where we go to war. That is what Carolin Cady was trying to say, and there are many of us who strongly agree with her.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    Feb. 12, 2018 9:50 a.m.

    "Trump isn’t “beating the war drums”. He’s standing up to a brutal dictator."

    From where I stand Trump isn't standing up to anyone. He's standing behind the comfort of his childish Twitter account making sophomoric insults to the other child in this playground argument. "My button is bigger than your button!" says the president of the world's greatest military power.

    Our history is that we have never had to 'beat our chests' because everyone knows how strong we are. the insecurity of this president has put us in perilous danger of going to war with another nuclear power. And while he plays his childish games with the North Korean leader he embraces the despotic dictators of the world like Vladimir Putin and Rodrigo Duterte who has just made a policy statement so disgusting it is not printable.

    Standing up on his own is something Mr. Trump has never had the courage to do.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 9:22 a.m.

    @Carolin Cady

    I've read the text to S.2047. Can you explain how it differs from war powers that already exist? Congress already has declaration of war and the power of the purse; the executive may already respond to an imminent threat. So what changes?

  • What in Tucket Provo, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 9:02 a.m.

    Never saw such drivel. Anti Trumpers are always trying to demean him. Trump knows as well as anyone that China is the key to North Korea. Finally someone is doing something about NK nukes. Don't worry NK is not worth going to war about, but it is worth negotiating with the Chinese. Of course if NK goes crazy and attacks the south that is different.
    I guess some would hide their heads in the sand. That is what Obama did. (and Bush)

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    Feb. 12, 2018 8:35 a.m.

    @unrepentant “I would not bet against some sort of military action by this President”.

    War with NK would mean hundreds of thousands dead in SK, many of them American military. Not going to happen.

  • Husker2 Aspen, CO
    Feb. 12, 2018 8:24 a.m.

    The Olympics make us feel all warm and fuzzy. In the meantime, millions of North Koreans are dying of starvation and lack of medical care.

    Trump isn’t “beating the war drums”. He’s standing up to a brutal dictator.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 12, 2018 7:48 a.m.

    It won't start as a war. It'll start as a 'bloody nose' strike on a missile launcher or enrichment facility.
    The war which it will quickly escalate into will be unavoidable.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    Feb. 12, 2018 6:28 a.m.

    I would not bet against some sort of military action by this president.

    A good military intervention somewhere in the world has helped countless other Presidents out of political wilderness.

    trump's true genious is survival. At this point, his political survival looks anchored to a good war someplace. Sadly, his accomplices in the GOP will put political survival over country and permit the expenditures of lives and money to aid and abet this man.

    This is how we lose our democracy. But we did get that $1.50 extra in the paycheck envelope (snark most definitely intended).

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Feb. 11, 2018 9:04 p.m.

    We need to treat war as the failure it is. Wars occur and our brave military people suffer the consequences when we fail to find peaceful solutions. If you want to honor our military then let’s do so by showing them we respect thier lives enough to keep them out of harms way.

  • dave4197 Redding, CA
    Feb. 11, 2018 8:43 p.m.

    Yes to regaining Congress's control of making war, and yes to cutting Trump out of making war by accident or by buffoonery or by plan. We want to end the armistice with a path to democracy for Koreans, we don't want to end the armistice that's as old as I am with a misguided conflict like Trump constantly toys with.
    The Olympics can result with Koreans continuing to work across their border for peace. Let's enable that process, not stoically block it. Trump's inability to see this as a great opportunity will be a historic miss, but I don't think he knows or cares. C'mon Congress, get your act together and restrain Trump. Before it's too late, before this opportunity is over.

  • Impartial7 DRAPER, UT
    Feb. 11, 2018 8:32 p.m.

    Our congressional delegation has proven that they will put party over country-no matter what. They will support Trump before their constituents. Pence's behavior was embarrassing, on the world's biggest stage. Trump has eroded decades of American leadership in one short year. The longer he stays in office, the lower our global status. I agree, he needs checks and balances before he runs us off a cliff. Just don't expect any help from Utah politicians.

  • [email protected] Tooele, UT
    Feb. 11, 2018 8:02 p.m.

    How about this:

    When North Korea stops behaving like a tyrant, we can stop treating them like one.