Fire Holmoe. He is the one driving this bus.
BYU basketball has been largely irrelevant for at least five years. BYU
football for even longer. Can they be relevant nationally again? If not
what's the point. You cannot be a good basketball team without
defense. While we hear about all-time greats nearly all played defense (Jordan,
James, Kobe, Shaq, Mailman, Stockton, Barkley, Bird, etc.) Offense is great but
I'd much rather see BYU score 75 and win than 100 and lose. Let's not forget basketball is a team sport and requires effort on both
ends. Coach Rose must start teaching this or go.
Rose used to be a good coach. He’s since run off several good players and
stubbornly clung to a defensive philosophy that only works in elementary school
before kids have a chance to learn that defense wins ball games. The 3 point
shooting is also atrocious and continues to be so regardless of the year or who
is playing. These two issues both result from poor coaching!A
contract extension as the NCAA is imposing sanctions on our basketball program
because the head coach was asleep at the wheel? Inconceivable!!! The Rose love boat has sailed. It’s now time to upgrade both the coach
and the schedule.
"Drano - USA, 00Dec. 4, 2018 8:02 p.m.As I sit watching Jordan
Chatman drop 25 against Providence".......and BC lost.
As I sit watching Jordan Chatman drop 25 against Providence, I am brought back
to the “misses” in talent evaluation by Rose. Chatman can start and
play for an ACC team but he can’t start and play for us? Demarcus
Harrison can start and play for Clemson but he can’t start and play for
us? Spare me the old diatribe of we want experienced players we get with this
coaching staff (ie juniors/seniors). This is the modern NCAA where freshman can
come in and have a tremendous impact on a program. It seems to me, if
you’re a legacy player or a player from a certain high school, you get to
play as a freshman at BYU. Another issue, Rose has surrounded
himself with inexperienced assistants that don’t have great recruiting
pipelines. When was Rose at his best coaching? With Dave Rice by his side. Is
it any wonder UW men’s hoops is making progress with Coach Hopkins having
Dave Rice, an experienced assistant with a recruiting pipeline to top
nat’l high school basketball programs? No. What pipeline does Lee
Cummard bring? None. A positive for BYU is we are saving $$$ on recruiting
because this staff doesn’t recruit outside of Utah much. A
replacement candidate: Mark Pope.
The cougars appear pretty desperate right now. The substitution pattern is so
random it's impossible to get any continuity. perhaps it's time to
look at some advanced analytics to determine who plays defense and who should
play. After getting beat 113 to 103 a coach says "that in order to win we
need to shoot the 3 point shot better"...really? how about some defense.
I have attended one BYU basketball game this year (the day before Thanksgiving).
TJ Haws was the best player on the floor. He played great and was very
unselfish with the ball. I think he had 8 assists. As I said, that was the
only game I have seen. I have no agenda and no favorites. Just reporting on
what I saw with my own eyes.
@patriot“Not enough talent” and “Honor Code”
are self-limiting falsehoods. People said BYU didn’t have and
couldn’t get the talent to win prior to LaVell Edwards. Turns out the only
place they lacked talent was in the coaching staff. Even the dreaded limitation
of “Independence” didn’t stop Army from making the Top 25.
They just needed a coaching change. If BYU can beat Wisconsin, AZ,
hang with Utah, Cal, Boise their talent level is close enough to compete as is
in football, and that talent can be improved with recruiting — and better
coaching. If BYU would play both defense and offense they could win
in basketball. I’ll bet to this day Jimmer regrets not being coached in
defense. “Save his energy for offense?” Playing defense never hurt
Jordan, Bird, Magic. Locally, Ainge was a great a great defender while at BYU.
Chris Hill became AD amd promptly fired mediocre coaches at Utah and took their
athletic programs to new heights. Fired Archibald and hired Majerus. Fired
Fassell and hired McBride, then replaced McBride with Meyer. Hill
was competent and courageous. Not sure the same could be said for Holmoe. Being
a Cougar alumn and a pro and assistant doesn’t necessarily make you a good
head coach (Holmoe was horrible), or AD.
Dave is feeling the same thing that coach Sitaki is in Football. Both good
coaches but both have nothing to play with anymore. No talent. Good kids but not
competitive. As I have said this is not the fault of any BYU coach or AD. BYU is
just locked out of the NCAA and perhaps its time to think about leaving the NCAA
for good. If you can't recruit you can't compete.
@wallyball:You adroitly pointed out: "They need an experienced
assistant coach that is an x and o guy. Too many high school coaches at present.
Defense is about effort and scheme".Why would Coach Rose hire an
experienced assistant coach who would be a threat to him? Heath Shroyer was a
good assistant but it was obvious that he was frustrated trying to work with
Dave Rose.With all the obvious discontent in the BYU nation, I think
Tom Holmoe should start feeling the heat and if he doesn't do something
soon I hope the Administration will wake up and review his status. If BYU
loses to USU and Utah this week, I strongly would back the firing of Coach Rose
forthwith! This downward spiral has gone on long enough now and we the Cougar
fans are more than tired of it. Mr. Holmoe, please do something
about this or step out of the way so that someone else can make the needed
changes down there in Provo. You and Coach Rose are getting paid way too much
salary for the bush league basketball poduct you are putting out there!
@MDCoug - Frederick, MDDec. 4, 2018 10:11 a.m.Thanks for the
background and story.
Honestly, I've seen high school teams play better defense than BYU. Did
the team throw away the defensive play book that Schroyer gave them? Couple
poor defense with poor shooting, and it's a recipe for the disaster we are
seeing. Run and gun only works when you make a higher percentage of shots than
your opponent. Start playing defensive, slow down the offensive,
drive to the hoop.
Suggesting that the demise of BYU basketball is because of the move to the West
Coast Conference is just plain wrong.The current number 1 ranked
team in the country, and consistently successful team is a member of the West
Coast Conference. How do they do it? Let's start with their out of
conference schedule. Texas A&M, Illinois, Arizona, Duke, Creighton,
Washington and North Carolina to name a few. A very stark contrast to the BYU
schedule. If you want to be the best, you have to play the best.A
lot of scratching the surface of the problem at BYU, but in my opinion, no one
is all that warm at identifying the cause.
Mr. Boris - Layton, UTDec. 4, 2018 10:37 a.m.“Rose is a great
coach. BYU basketball has steadily declined after the stupid move by
the administration to leave the MWC and join the WCC. The WCC is
horrible and football independence is horrible.”If the WCC is
the cause of BYU’s decline in basketball, how has Gonzaga been more
successful than any team in the PAC 12 or MWC since 2011?If MWC
membership is so superior to Independence, why were FIVE of Utah State’s
games “televised” on FACEBOOK, and why did #23 Utah State (10-2) end
up playing in a bowl that is equivalent to the bowl BYU (6-6) is playing in?
Roger Reid’s problem was lack of recruiting. If Roger or a coach with his
ability had this team, they would be undefeated or maybe only one loss. Roger
was the best coach to draw up plays and execute a half court offense than any
coach in BYU history. If you’ve watched BYU basketball as long as I have,
you know that is true. Translate to now. This team does not have a true
post player. They better find a couple fast. Don’t be afraid to sit
players not producing. All this is, is Rec style basketball. You might find
better shooters at the PE building.
@MDCougThank you for confirming our suspicions. Incredible story.
Thanks for the share.
Rose is a great coach. BYU basketball has steadily declined after
the stupid move by the administration to leave the MWC and join the WCC. The WCC is horrible and football independence is horrible. I didn't blame Bronco for leaving and I wouldn't blame Rose either.
My basketball coaching experience has found me in the NBA G-League, NCAA, and
player development all around the world. While coaching for an East Coast D3
University we had a top 15 ranked defense in the country and used that defensive
system to win a conference championship and top 10 ranking. We had two of the
best seasons in school history. This brought the attention of a Pac-12 coach who
invited me to his office to discuss the defense. We had a great discussion - he
took some things and I learned some things. That team has improved. I also
wanted to learn about the transition game from Coach Rose on my way home. I met
with him in his office and he spent a few minutes with me. When I asked him if
he wanted to discuss defense, he told me that they only stressed 1 thing and
that they wanted to be really good at 1 thing - offense. He didn't want to
hear about the defense and felt like that would be too much to teach both
offense and defense. That the players wouldn't get it....still hard to
Dick talks about "the real world outside the byu bubble". What in the
world would Dick know about that? I know, I know, he has heard rumors, perhaps,
but this is getting a bit unreal. I mean, this is Harmon, folks, talking about
the real world outside the byu bubble, as if he had a clue.
They need an experienced assistant coach that is an x and o guy. Too many high
school coaches at present. Defense is about effort and scheme.
Our obsession with Lone Peak players has been one of the factors in this
mediocrity. Their average play has been compounded by team division and now
NCAA violations. What a sad end to a once glorious story.
Not sure why Rose just got a contract extension. Perhaps Tom Holmoe is out of
ideas as well? BYU sports in perilous times with football and basketball, the
two major revenue sports. Without change, things will never change.
Reviewing the last three games here are what some key numbers look like:StartersHaws- 16-46 (35%) 3 pt-7-23 (30%)Hardnett- 14-27 (52%) 3
pt- 0-5 (0%)Childs- 30-59 (51%) 3 pt- 6-14 (43%)Seljas- 6-26 (26%) 3
pt- 3-11 (27%)Nixon- 8-13 (62%) 3 pt- 1-5. (20%)TOTAL 74-171 (43%)
17-58 (29%)Three main subsHarding. 4-9 (44%) 3 pt- 0-5. (0)Cannon. 4-7 (57%). 3 pt- 2-4. (50%)Baxter. 4-5 (80%). 3 pt- 0-0TOTAL 12-21 (57%). 2-9. (22%)As many have stated our three point
shooting is horrible. Field goal percentage OK. So what are the main
problems?Defense if a player is not committed to defense sit him on
the bench!In-game adjustments - opposing coaches have figured our
offensive scheme out. There needs to demand less dribbling and more ball
movement & screening to get better looks at hoop.Use bench players
more - I a m a believer that Harding and Baxter have big upsides. They need more
playing time.Many more games to play. Let’s see if players
will be held more accountable to play stronger defense and changes made to
improve offense moving forward.Go Cougs!
@LogicInduced:Excuse me. Rose is not a terrific coach. He
hasn't done a good job of coaching for about 5 years. He appears to be
burnt out but his brilliant Athletic Director just extended his contract, what
for? Put these coaches feet on hot coals and if they can't
produce then it's time to change. If that doesn't happen then BYU
needs to do the right thing and change out the A.D. and see if they can get one
in there who isn't afraid to hold the coaches to high expectations.
This says it all: "It was the same week the university pre-empted the
announcement by giving him a contract extension".Tome Holmoe
erred greatly by not taking Coach Rose into his office and communicating
something like: "Dave, if you can get us back into the NCAA tournament this
year, we will extend your contract" - alas he did not give the Coach
anything to reach for. So what do we have? We have an
"uninspired" team and a Coach who is befuddled as to what to do - oh but
not to worry, he has that extended contract to fall back on!If BYU
loses these next 2 games, this old BYU fan votes for Holmoe to buy out
Rose's contact and put him on a rail with a one-way ticket.C'mon Cougs, fight hard despite the uninspired coaching!
If Holmoe does not have the guts to terminate Rose then Rose should do the right
thing regarding the future of BYU basketball and resign.... Nothing short of
that will do !
Rose lost control of the team ever since the LP3 came in. They are very selfish
players. Don't even get me started on Nick Emery.It's also
no question that Dave Rose has no idea how to coach and teach defense in
basketball. It's been that way his whole career. And yet he got
a contract extension? Tom Holmoe is ruining the athletics program at BYU. He is
ultimately responsible for every team's performance as the head manager.
It would take a miracle to turn this season around. I don't see it. Another
season with no NCAA tournament.
I have a lot of respect for Rose. However, like the Green Bay Packers and Ohio
State, maybe it's time for a coaching change. Like the Philadelphia
Eagles, sometimes a fresh face makes the difference. Andy Reid did great things
in Philly, but it just started to crumble. He went on to Kansas City and had
done great things, and the Eagles went on to win the Super Bowl. Sometimes
change is a good thing. While my voice doesn't matter, I've concluded
that BYU basketball is mired in mediocrity right now. It needs a jolt, a fresh
face to lead what should be a better program. (And I'm not even addressing
the WCC fiasco).
One guard was so excited about this new style of play. Better suits his own run
and gun style. Can anyone wonder why. Suits him better personally I suppose.
Last year at least the team had some good wins with their best player Bryant and
some defense. 1 for 9 shooting? This is D I folks. Sure he had a few good
games. Back to playing like last year in terms of his shooting and overall
play? How about a little defense against quick opposing guards. Not going to
happen. We all know the obvious reason why. A couple of the guards need to be
benched and it is not Hardnette. Not going to happen with Rose. How about
playing the big freshman. The team needs a center and more than Childs
underneath. Not going to happen with Rose. When you can't shoot the 3 ball
well and you are playing 3 guards? Seems like a recipe for a lot of losses. So
The curse of Nick Emery.................
Being in the WCC and independent in football is fine. Both bring challenges,
heart break, success, and championships. Moving to the Mtn West is not a good
idea. A P5 invite will come. Basketball has had set backs (Emery’s
indiscretions) and with early departures with players thinking they are NBA
talent (Mika & E. Bryant) or lack of playing time (4 star Dastrup) Rose
didn’t manage Dastrup PT well. These early departure guys will never make
it in the NBA. I hope Yoeli stays his senior year. Has there ever been a BYU BB
player who left school early and made it in the NBA? We get good players but
need them to stay till graduation.
The only sport that has flourished at BYU is volleyball, since Holmoe stumbled
onto campus... that should tell the Brotheren something....
Used to be BYU was the first choice of LDS athletes. Times have changed. We
now read about LDS athletes playing for schools all over the country. It is a
reflection of the growth in church membership. Not every church member feels
loyalty to BYU.
I tend to agree with that Haws and Hardnett together on the court at the same
time isn't working very well. And I'm sorry Haws, but Hardnett is a
better all-around player than you are. You can score (minus the Weber State
game), but your defense is awful. This will only get worse now that Emery
is returning. BYU can only stand to play two of those three at the same time
because they are already so undersized. If they had another big body who could
at least play defense, rebound, and make you guard them on the blocks besides
Childs, you could play all three. But its turning out that none of the freshman
are either ready to contribute or the coaches haven't done a good enough
job preparing them to contribute. Nixon has been disappointing this year. And
here's a pointer, if you can't make threes, stop shooting so many of
I might actually agree the WCC was holding BYU's basketball team back, if
the basketball team wasn't better than the third best team in the
conference. BYU has more four star recruits than they ever have, so obviously
recruiting is not the issue. What is hurting BYU more than anything is bad
coaching. BYU lost four football games because of bad coaching. Mika and Bryant
left because of bad coaching. Imagine if Mika and Bryant hadn't left early,
this would be the senior year for both. BYU deserves to play in high school
gyms, because their team is coached like a high school team. Undisciplined, and
the coach plays his favorites.
i love a hot opinion as long as it is reasonably well thought out and with
backup documentation. But, lacking any documentation and flying in the face of
common sense is this mantra that BYU is handicapped because of independence.
The WCC is ruining BYU etc .... This is total make believe. A good basketball
coach, which is not Rose, will turn this program around. Lot of kids want to
attend BYU. If the sports programs have quality coaches who put in the effort
to stay up with the changing times and actually recruit good athletes who are
also good kids then the sports programs will be just fine. Independence gives
BYU the funding for all its sport. For those of you that say independence is
the cause of losing football games over the last 2 years and the complete
meltdown of the basketball program ...... it's just spouting opinions
without facts. If BYU was still in the MWC right now ........ how would that
make our fb and bb programs better than they are? How would that help the
programs and the coaches and recruits?? It is just a moronic argument at a
minimum. Rose and Holmoe are issues. Not being indy!
You just proved my point.Gonzaga in basketball is an island unto
itself, always will be.Overall, the MWC is a much better conference
than the WCC for basketball. It is also many times better for Olympic sports as
well. How long are Cougar fans willing to stick their heads in the
sand and continue to blame their coaches when RECRUITING is the problem? The reality is obvious to everyone else. Why is it so hard for anyone in
Cougar nation to see the problem? BYU basketball can not recruit in the WCC as
well as they did in the MWC. And, BYU as an independent football team cannot
recruit talent like it could when it was a member of the MWC. Cougar
athletics as a whole are heading for complete irrelevancy in the name of
Samejersey - You are being sarcastic right?
I don't easily accept the argument that the problem with BYU basketball is
their affiliation with the WCC. If that were true, then Gonzaga wouldn't be
#1 in the nation right now. Isn't a more logical premise built on something
else? Perhaps, coaching?
I feel bad for these BYU coaches. When is the news media going to start
reporting the REAL problem with Cougar athletics -- i.e., that, thanks to
football independency and a subpar WCC, Cougar athletics is now a sinking
ship.The West Coast Conference is NOT the Mountain West for
basketball. You can't expect Dave Rose to recruit the talent the Cougar
program has in the past when you are competing in a subpar conference now.And, it is NOT Sitake's fault that Cougar football is failing to
live up to its past standards -- nor was it Bronco's or even Ty
Detmer's fault.The fault lies in your AD department that
thought it was a good idea to take football into complete irrelevancy by going
independent. The fault lies with the AD office to take the rest of your sports
programs to the subpar WCC and away from the much better Mountain West
Conference.Until BYU football finds a conference, I am afraid Cougar
fans need to get used to disappointment. You can blame your coaches all you
want, fire all your basketball and football coaches if you want -- it is not
going to help until you find a decent conference better than the WCC.
The LP3 would have been fantastic if they’d stuck together through their
Senior year.Haws isn’t the problem, but he lacks leadership
skills.Believe it, or not, Nick could be the missing catalyst to
bring these disparate pieces together as a team.
DranoI totally agree with you. It is not at all surprising the LP3
preformed below expectations. These guys were told all though high school they
were the greatest players so naturally they don't play team ball. But Rose
is the coach and he has the former LP coach on the bench with him. The buck
Mr Harmon, we've discussed this before. Is it worth repeating? BYU' s
men's major sports just don't have it. The problem? A lack of talent,
an inability to recruit sufficient talent, and a lack of commitment to be great.
Why is this so? Because of BYU. Best regards, and Merry Christmas!
Weber actually has some good talent on their team. Or maybe we just made them
look that good. If they really are as bad as Sagarin and Pomeroy have them
ranked then BYU's men's team is in big trouble.So it
looks like USU will be a big challenge for us but will utha have enough players
on their team by the time that game rolls around at the end of this week? Seems
like they have someone transfer out about every other day.Rose
doesn't have to worry about recruits leaving with a bad impression if he
loses games while they're in town this week. They would be able to read all
about it and watch highlights online wherever they are in the world. What Rose
does need to worry about is the bad impression HE will make on his recruits if
he again SCREAMS at his players about their defense like he did during that 2nd
half time out at Weber. I thought he was going to give himself a stroke. But
maybe the recruits have already seen it online or will see it soon. Not a good
look, Dave. Try teaching your players about playing defense during practices and
not during in-game time-outs.
Rose is a terrific coach with an amazing record. BYU fans' expectations in
basketball and football are way too high for an honor code university in
today's society. There are not that many Jimmer's. Go Cougers!!!
The LP3 should’ve been dubbed the LPME. A couple of them play for the
individual first and the team second. These recruits were highly touted,
publicized and larger than life coming out of high school. But there’s a
key component a couple of them forgot, accomplishments in high school
don’t garuantee success in college. No opponent gives two rips who you
were in high school, if you were Mr. Basketball in the state of Utah and whether
you won a nat’l championship. Hopefully, Rose will make the adjustments
and start playing players who are about the team first. History tells me he
won’t. It will be more of the same.
Childs...stay in the block.Baxter...take those minutes from Nixon...play
in the high or low post and rebound and get dunks.Hardnett...best point
guard on the team. Distribute ball, slash to the basket, score or dish off to
Childs or Baxter.Harding...on the wing...drive inside, draw the
defense, pass to Childs and Baxter. Or fake the pass and take it to
the rim. He can do that because I watched him do it all through high school.Seljaas....after everybody drives the defense crazy, pass it out the your best
3 point shooter. When he gets his feet set and in a zone, he can
score. What about Emery and Haws? After what Emery did the the BYU
basketball program, why is he even on the team? Since he is, you've to
play him. He can shot, but nobody else will see the ball except for Haws and if
he has it, it's a turnover about to happen.
The streak could extend to seven games after playing USU and Utah. Have you seen
I'm curious why Li will be playing in China after his college career.Does this mean he is not expected to be good enough for the NBA?
Dave Rose is going to have to decide how committed he is to letting Haws do his
thing which clearly isn't working. Hardnett should run the offense and
Haws should get out of his way. BYU basketball looks like pick-up ball down at
the YMCA with Haws deciding who will get to shoot if he can't (which is
almost never). Four guys standing around watching to see what Haws is going to
do next probably isn't a winning strategy and Rose should be able to see
Rose and his players are just waiting for Emery's return with their subpar
performance but Emery can't save them. "After Lone Peak"
can't come soon enough.
BYU-Provo will defeat a totally discombobulated Utah team this weekend, and all
will be unicorns and daisies in their little world again.
The Aggies rolled WCC stalwart Saint Marys. Do you think BYU is going to compete
with the Aggies? At least Saint Mary's acts like they are playing defense.
BYU doesn't even act like they are interested in it. They just want to get
down court and jack up a questionable 3. I think the Aggies win by 20+, and the
Utes will do the same.
As long as legacy players get their shots - what else matters?
Watching BYU basketball has been very difficult now for several years. Same
problems all the time. Poor defense, poor 3 point shooting, poor foul shooting.
Something's got to change.
My thoughts exactly Mr. Harmon. Thank you!
Right now this is a very bad basketball team