WACmidmajor:What are you talking about? What "straws" am I
allegedly grasping at? Seems to me that it's the other way around.
Because ESPN most certainly DID report that they were paying the indy-WACers
"nearly $4 million", and Holmoe most certainly HAD published a chart
reflecting their media revenues only amounted to "7%" of all revenue
sources. And the idablue reported that the indy-WACers reported $67 million in
gross revenues. I've already don the math for you. Literally
everything I'd stated above is a proven fact, and can be verified on the
internet. So please be specific.....what "straws" am I allegedly
grasping at? And don't say the "nearly $4 million" or "7%"
part, because those facts had already been PROVEN to be true.
Sorry navalprivate but you are as always just grasping for straws ......
WACmidmajor:We absolutely DO know how much money the cougars are
getting from their ESPN contract! And we KNOW this because BOTH parties already
told us. ESPN said they're paying them "nearly $4 million" per
year, and Holmoe published a report reflecting gross revenues from the media to
be only 7%. And for the record "ESPN 960" isn't owned
by "ESPN", and Ryan Teeples isn't an ESPN correspondent, but rather
a paid employee of the indy-WACers.So yeah, we DO know! They TOLD
london_josh:I'm going to go with "the MWC would never take
byu back". Period.
Either byu has no value or byu has so much value that they'd demand special
rights.So those arguing with each other and going back and forth
with arguments - choose your point and stick with it. You can't
go from "the MWC would never take byu back" to "byu has so much
value that they'd need a special deal".
naval vet, as per ESPN 960 radio March of 2018 ... BYU's current
contract(which was negotiated in 2010 before inflation hit college football)
with ESPN in somewhere between 6-10 Million dollars annually .... so that tells
me that NO One really knows except for the men in command at the Y and ESPN and
i really do not think that you fit either one of those bills ......
I actually think that the pac12 would have more to gain if BYU actually joined
their conference....They would immediately add 1 more College Football Unanimous
National Championship to the conference ! in fact at that point the Y would be
the last team from that conference to win a Unanimous College Football
Championship....(2004 does not count because everyone knows that usc vacated
that title when they were caught for cheating )... now that is mind blowing !!
london_josh - Lincoln, CA If the BIG12 wanted BYU it would have happened
already. BYU football attendance is dwindling the fans dont care and being
independent is killing BYU. They should go back to the MWC and maybe without
Utah and TCU they might start to dominate again.Holmoe and Sitake are
great for the dying program down South.
“Moving the goal post much? You mentioned the financial value byu
brings to the MWC, that's my point.”london_josh-er:No, you missed the field goal. First, I mentioned the
foolishness of assuming real ESPN would want, or be able, to pay more money than
the coogs are now getting to the MWC if BYU-P were to join (remember, ESPN
doesn’t have exclusive rights, they share w/ CBS). Second, I mentioned the
complete certainty that even if ESPN paid the same as the coogs are getting now
(still questionable), the the coogs would want it all. (There’s no
question BYU-P has a history in that regard, e.g., their TV rights demands that
kept them out of the BigXII 7 years ago. That would bring NO value to the MWC.
And that is MY point.Agree, or disagree?
"The question may be whether UT is willing to accept others playing in their
sandbox."And this comes right after a 3 game series in which byu
lost a game they shutoff have won by a point in Texas, then took Texas apart
surgically in an ugly lopsided game, then did it again.That was good
football, not good diplomacy. However, the longhorns present an
opportunistic problem. They'll continue to be a prima Donna in the bigxii
which has 10 members, eventually that causes a shift and then byu will likely
get in without the public debate that was the only real negative for BYU.No team moved the needle because the goal was the theatrics of a debate
that gave the conference other benefits. One day they'll have to expand,
and I think byu is nearly a lock when they do and they'll do it quietly if
they are serious.
Mountainman, well put. However, the question may not be whether BYU is willing
to pay the price. UTexas has proven to be unreasonable. That is why the strong
schools (with the exception of Oklahoma) have gone. The question may be whether
UT is willing to accept others playing in their sandbox.
You are not considering the political history of the Big 12/10. The University
of Texas calls the shots in the conference. That is why Nebraska, Missouri,
Colorado and even Texas A&M departed. Previously U of Texas had destroyed
the old Southwest Conference and dumped TCU, SMU, Rice and Houston. Then they
persuaded the football powerhouse Big 8 to take the remaining four Texas orphans
into their powerful football conference. Within a few years Texas gained power
and began calling the shots in the new conference, and schools began to leave.
So if BYU wants to join the Big 12, you will have to pay tribute to and not
cross the U of Texas. If they will have BYU, is BYU willing to pay the price?
John,Moving the goal post much? You mentioned the
financial value byu brings to the MWC, that's my point. Then
you mentioned problems with sharing - that's not historical and not part of
the conversation. It's would BYU be attractive financially to the MWC, so
if BYU went to ask the MWC for admission, would they want BYU in or not? Do you agree or disagree? Nobody is talking about BYU
getting extra rights, that's a completely different situation.
I'm a BYU grad, so is my wife and so is my daughter. I'm in favor of
intercollegiate athletics completely being cut from the BYU. The high coach
salaries and the corruption by boosters is detrimental to the integrity of the
institution. BYU would survive just fine without athletics.
It's interesting to watch what happens with a discussion like this. I was
in the midwest at the time of the decision by the Big-12. I followed it closely
in midwest media. Fox was never brought up. The coverage was all based upon
whether the reeling Big 12 would get over it's internal problems and make a
decision to expand and stay competitive with the other conferences. BYU's
stance on homosexuality was an issue with some, but there seemed to be a
majority willing to accept them. Houston was the other strong candidate, but
there was concern that the conference would be too Texas-heavy. The
reason for BYU's appeal was mostly financial. When TV crosses into more
markets, there is a large difference in size of contract. That is why the SEC
took Missouri and why the PAC took Utah and Colorado. However, there was
reported to be concern on the part of UTexas that expanding might take away some
of their power. The commissioners comments were political babble and nothing
@london_joshIt seems that only you and a handful of angry and hurt
byu fans seem to care why we have collegiate football.Business or no
businessFun or not funBigotry or enlightenmentPersecution or
acceptanceI could not care any less about why they play football I
am just glad that they do play football.Peace brother.
"Yet, we're ironically called morons when trying to explain basic
economic concepts to them."london_josh-er:You are
not explaining anything when you cavalierly dismiss as "stupid" the
reasons why the MWC would not gain any financial advantage for their existing
members by inviting a diva who would demand all the extra money from a TV
contract, assuming it was even offered.It seems you're the one
being emotional, thinking every conference should fall all over themselves to
get the coogs. We KNOW that isn't happening.
For people who flip burgers for a living and think that they work in a
restaurant rather than a business - this concept that sports is a business seems
to be lost on some feeble minds. They just don't seem to understand that
teams and universities want money. They don't play football "because
it's the right thing to do" - it's because they earn a ton of cash
doing it and they earn more in ways not directly associated with sales than
directly associated with ticket sales.Yet, we're ironically
called morons when trying to explain basic economic concepts to them.
idablu:"BYU received around $10 million from ESPN alone."MYTH! I know this for a FACT! ESPN already told us how much they pay
you, and it ain't $10 million. It's "nearly $4 million". And
Holmoe himself eventually corroborated this by publishing only 7% of their
operating revenues are coming from TV and radio. And I wouldn't be
surprised to hear that this "7%" was actually "rounded up".For the mathematically disinclined indy-WACers, 7.0% of this alleged $67
million is $4.69 million. So that means the Y is getting nearly $4 million from
ESPN, with the remaining $0.69+ million balance from radio.Again,
this FACT is coming from BOTH parties -- ESPN and Tom Holmoe. Time to let this
already debunked myth die.
Also, I think the commissioner would be taken more seriously if he had come out
and said "no TWO teams moved the needle. If I recall correctly, at the time,
BYU had several of the B12 schools actively pushing for BYU to be included in
conf expansion. They were looking for suitable schools to be travel partners in
order to not require teams like West Virginia to have to travel such a long
distance for some of the Olympic sports in order to balance out the two leagues
that would have been created within the conference. Once the NCAA removed the
requirement that a conference have 12 teams with two leagues in order to play a
conf championship game, suddenly the need to expand wasn't there. But for anyone to say that there wasn't any team that moved the needle is
“Financially it's stupid for BYU to go to the MWC, and equally stupid
to think that the MWC would deny BYU entry.Nobody has made a good point
for the MWC denying entry from a financial point of view, only an emotional
point of view.”london_josh-er:Typical coog hubris.
ESPN is in deep financial trouble, yet you know that BYU-P would demand the
same, or better, TV revenue than Boise State got (they take 2-3x the other
schools). It would be stupid to think that ESPN would cough up the same dollars
to the MWC, and even more stupid to think they would invite a thirteenth school
that would want to hog the limited financial pie and leave the rest with the
@ArizonaUteIf Fox saw no ROI to paying to have 2 (or possibly even 4
at the time) teams join the conference, then why pay the conf big bucks to stay
put and keep the status quo? If no team "moved the needle", then why did
Fox feel so threatened that more teams would join that they threw big money at
the B12 to *not* expand? If no team moved the needle, then Fox shouldn't
have had to pay a dime to the conference. That just isn't the case!I thought this was just common sense?!?!?!
BJ Moose...other than your not liking my Cougs, what is your point? As far as
getting back into the MWC (which I hope they do not attempt) they would be
welcomed back immediately were they to indicate interest in joining that very
good conference. There's not a school in the MWC that I do not feel good
about. Great bunch of institutions, with teams such as Fresno, Utah State and
Boise, all of which would have a very good chance at beating the U this year,
especially the latter two. I point that out only as an indication of how good I
think they are because I certainly feel the Utes have improved over the past few
years. I actually predicted that this was going to be the big year for them.Expansion will come, no question in my mind about that. However, I do
question whether or not the Y will be included due to the Sunday-play issue.
That's really the only real issue because many schools have strict
'honor code' type of policies in place. A perfect fit for me would be
Boise and the Y joining the PAC, my favorite conference for many decades. But,
I don't see that taking place. In the meantime, stay indy and keep working
on getting better.Happy Holidays, everyone.
I still find it funny that the Big 12 doesn’t have 12 teams.
While I watch nick emery play again, I'm reminded what people keep
forgetting - NCAA is a huge business where schools and the organization and
coaches can make a ton of money, and the players can't make any money. We
all pretend it's a sport, it's entertainment for us and business for
others.Fans pretend that it's a fair sport, it's not,
it's not designed to be. Schools care because of money attached and
advertising for donations, endowments and even students. Financially
it's stupid for BYU to go to the MWC, and equally stupid to think that the
MWC would deny BYU entry. Nobody has made a good point for the MWC
denying entry from a financial point of view, only an emotional point of view.
nobody has made a good point of BYU going into the MWC on anything
based on emotions.BYU sits in the gap between the P5 teams and the
G5 teams, noticeably under the P5 revenue while significantly over the G5
revenue - yet the future is in their control. I don't blame the
BigXII for not selecting BYU, they didn't need to as a business. That
doesn't mean that they never will. When teams need to adjust, BYU looks
good. Until then, revenue is where it should be, so independence works.
Bowlsby’s Big-12 is the last conference in the heep. They won’t
expand. BYU football looks more like, “Requiem for a Heavyweight ”,
sadly, then a conference-bound, winning program. .
London Josh and Byufootballrocks are correct. It’s all about money.
Financially, any G5 conference would be irresponsible not to take BYU if the
opportunity arose.But from a business perspective, why would BYU want to
join any G5 conference? They would take a huge hit in revenue. In 2017 BYU
ranked 55 ($67 million) in revenue among all universities, exceeding many P5
schools and #1 among G5 schools. If you take away the state (taxpayer) subsidies
to the G5 schools, the disparity in revenue between BYU and other G5 schools is
even greater.In just TV revenue Boise State took in 2.9 million. The rest
of the MWC schools averaged a little over $1 million in TV revenue. BYU received
around $10 million from ESPN alone. Instead of being denigrated, Tom
Holmoe should be applauded for looking out for BYU’s best financial
interest. For the time being, BYU has faired very well on this independent
venture. And it is successful because they do, in fact, have a good national
following, especially from vitriolic Ute fans who comment here and follow
everything BYU obsessively. I thank you good folks for helping make BYU
Hate to say it but that's what non byu fans have been saying for a long
time. There just aren't any obvious slam dunk candidates for expansion.Sure, byu would bring some positives. No doubt. But it's nowhere
near the full tilt clear cut bona fide P5 caliber program the fans would have
everyone believe.Plus, if you're a power five league, the
question must be asked how much of the positives would be negated by the
negative perception associated. I think a lot of the powers in charge would say
the cost to benefit isn't good enough to justify adding byu. I'll say this. I wouldn't mind at all if byu joined the Big 12. In
fact, I prob prefer it, because it ups Utahs schedule strength and makes for an
interesting power five out of conference match up. I don't favor them
joining the Pac, however. They just aren't anywhere near a good fit for
that league.Hopefully the Big 12 changes its mind someday. As much
as I dislike byu, I'd applaud them joining that league.Also
hopefully this news opens y fans' eyes a bit and proves to them they
aren't anywhere near as valuable in the CFB world they think they are.
'Not one (school) moved the needle'Lol.....Priceless.Midmajor forever.Go Utes!
An 8 team playoff seems about right to me. It should include the conference
champion of each P5 league, the highest ranked G5 conference champion, and 2
at-large bids.And london_josh -- you're delusional if you think
the MWC would ever consider bringing you aboard. They already KNOW that your
"traveling fanbase" and "national brand" is a myth. You
don't move the needle for them either. Plus, they're ALREADY at 12
teams. Why add a 13th?
@Stanfunky"No more independents. Notre Dame joins a
conference"Sorry Stan. Not going to happen. Notre Dame has
been independent since 1887. It is a way of life. Not a short term experiment
waiting for something better to come along. Has had a lucrative contract with
NBC since 1992. However, there was a time when they wanted to join what was to
become the BIG10. They didn't want ND then, and ND doesn't want the
Big10 now."Many fans are unaware of the fact that the Western
Conference (the predecessor to the Big Ten) blackballed Notre Dame in the early
part of the 20th century. The University of Michigan, far and away the most
powerful and school at the time, stopped playing Notre Dame's budding
football program and convinced the other members of the conference in an
indirect attempt to squelch ND's growth before they became a legitimate
threat. Michigan's strategy failed. In fact, it helped make
Notre Dame into what it is today. Since they couldn't find local opponents,
the Irish decided to storm the country to find opponents. This strategy led to
Notre Dame developing a vast, national fan base as opposed to a regionalized one
@london_josh - Lincoln, CAWhat Bowlsby is saying, however, is that
for the B12, no program, including BYU, moved the needle.That means
media outlets like Fox, saw no material ROI from any candidate, including BYU.
They were unwilling to pay the $ for any of the expansion candidates, including
BYU.They will invest if there is a pay back.BYU might
raise the financial profile of the MWC (although you'd need some actual
proof of that) but they certainly wouldn't have for the B12, according to
the media sponsors who give the big pay-outs.They did the math and
decided it would be less costly for them to just pay the B12 more $ to NOT
expand with any of the candidates, including BYU. It's a
business decision. They did the real analysis and the ROI just wasn't
there. They know their business. They know the metrics. They know what to
look for and how to find it. It's what they do.
The path for BYU to a P5 lies only by and through affiliation with either the
American or re-affiliation MWC -- end.The American is a no go -- it
is an East Coast conference and it makes no sense for them or for BYU -- the
travel costs alone would be horrendous. Also, BYU would still have
to find at least one other partner to join the American from the West, and I
don't see that happening. That means, despite what BYU fans
say, there is only one path forward for their program -- that is the MWC. And, the MWC is not just going to let the Cougars back in with open arms
either. It is going to cost the Cougars in the form of -- well, what exactly can
you do for us? Their ace in the hole? ESPN. The Cougars can use
their clout with ESPN to renegotiate new television contracts for the whole
conference -- and not just BYU.Honestly, that is BYU's ONLY
path forward at present. Rejoin the MWC. But, you are going to have to make the
deal pretty sweet for the entire conference -- i.e., share and share alike. The
last piece is that there will be a SUBSTANTIAL exit clause. But, it is either
this or face certain long-term college football irrelevancy. The
choice is with the Cougars.
@Cougar_Trojan_Spurs_Fan - San Diego, CADec. 5, 2018 10:21 a.m.Seems you are missing the entire point. He basically... IS... being
transparent. Fox DID pay more to NOT expand. Why you ask? Answer:Because the extra $$ they would have to pay per team, if
they expanded with the candidates available, wasn't going to pay off. "Moving the needle" relates to $$$. Was that ever in
question?The media outlets are businesses and are NOT afraid to
invest if they get a good enough ROI.Fox did the math
(research/analysis). It was financially better for them to pay more to the B12
to prevent expansion, with the candidates they had available. That
is what he is saying with the phrase, "No program moved the needle"This just seems like common sense.
Next time, I'm going to get the in from Dallas ute because that dude knows
what's happening on the college football scene:)"Well, WYO,
AF, SDSU, CSU, UN, UNM, UNLV, UH and most likely USU, maybe BSU as well, would
vote "nay" to a BYU invite."That's good info
I'm sure. Must have been first hand conversations with those institutions.
It is a curious activity reading these comments.Anti-byu commenters
just pushing buttonsPro-byu commenters cannot accept that their school in
not very desirable The universe is in stasis.
majmajor says, "BYU needs an AD that can build relationships, not one with
an over inflated ego. The Big-12 already has Texas.. The Big-12 can’t
handle two drama queens."Every time I hear from Tom Holmoe, the
last thing I see is arrogance. He's a gracious gentleman. I understand you
aren't seeing the success you'd like but that doesn't make Tom
Holmoe a poor AD. There are circumstances that kept BYU from being included and
that's too bad, but that's life. I think he's handled the program
with class. I trust that BYU made the best presentation possible, but there were
a couple of schools, just like years ago in the Pac10 who for
religious/political reasons, would never vote for BYU. What do you expect Tom
Holmoe to do? Start grovelling? Would that work? Again, Holmoe is a class act in
@Real Ute"Well kind sir, any MWC school president, who actually votes,
that voted for BYU would be fired on the spot. You must not realize how BYU is
despised and avoided???? The student governments regents, donors, etc.... at
EVERY MWC school would go ballistic if BYU was afforded an invite."So when was popularity among peers the criteria for fairness in getting into a
P5 conference? What has that got to do with competitive football? Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, Alabama, historically are some of the most hated
teams, can you image them being denied privileges among their peers because they
are disliked by so many?That's silly.
Mike,"You must not realize how BYU is despised and
avoided????"It's about money!Let me prove that
to you - on your list of teams that you say would oppose BYU, which teams have
played or will play BYU in football? 2 of them have every year commitments to
playing BYU. it's either love or money - and either one, especially the
latter, would bring back a MWC vote.Remember that it was BYU and
Utah primarily that got AF, CSU, SDSU, UNM, UNLV and UWy as the charter
members.All the respect for you in the world, but you just
aren't looking at this as a business decision, which is how an AD must look
at it. None of those schools will appear bigoted against BYU,
because while it might get some smiles, the governments that support them
don't want any discrimination of any kind going on. So if they hate BYU
then they need to hide it. But the big one is money, you've got schools
streaming games on facebook and BYU brings it's network and fans and
contracts in.I'd vote against it, but the ADs wouldn't
dare. Fanbase, stadium and following would elevate the financial situation of
the conference overnight.
One of the biggest reasons the Big 12 did not expand is because they have a hard
time getting agreement on virtually anything. A previous poster alluded to U
Texas. When A&M and Mizzou fled to the SEC, it left a lesser conference.
Oklahoma stayed loyal but probably should have left. There have been
disagreements between OU and UT in conference meetings for some time. There was,
indeed, some reluctance to accept BYU among a few of the schools based upon bias
against homosexuals about the time of the vote. But, if not for the lack of
cohesion in the conference, a super majority may still have voted them in.
B12's lack of expansion really was more about conference problems than
Also, another thing to keep in mind is, when the B12 began talks of expansion,
the news wires blew up of how poorly BYU's honor code treated LGBTQ people,
and the fans of the other teams in the conference threatened boycotts if BYU was
allowed to join. That scared off all of the University presidents, who are the
ones who make the call, not the athletic directors. If the athletic directors
made the call, BYu would likely be a part of the Pac-12, as all of those
AD's have mentioned that they feel BYu is a P-5 worthy opponent. The
university presidents feel otherwise.Boy, talk about tolerance and
@London Josh,The MWC won't allow BYU back in. The BYU delusion
that is $ is just a fallacy at best dear buddy.You stated that any
MWC AD that voted against BYU would be out of a job?????? Well kind sir, any MWC
school president, who actually votes, that voted for BYU would be fired on the
spot. You must not realize how BYU is despised and avoided???? The student
governments regents, donors, etc.... at EVERY MWC school would go ballistic if
BYU was afforded an invite. So, it takes 75% of MWC members to vote
"yay." Well, WYO, AF, SDSU, CSU, UN, UNM, UNLV, UH and most likely USU,
maybe BSU as well, would vote "nay" to a BYU invite.
What actually "moved the needle" in my opinion was the fact that about
the time the Big12 was considering expansion, the NCAA took away the requirement
that football conferences needed 12 members in order to have a conference
championship game. That game alone brings in millions of dollars to the
conference. There was no longer a motivation to have 12 teams.
"As things currently stand, they’d be fortunate to get back into the
MWC"I love these comments.Any MWC AD who votes
against BYU is looking for a new job the following Monday. It's a financial
win.The HC can hate BYU all it wants, but the AD can't look
like a bigot and most of all, they can't hate money and keep their job and
BYU is huge money compared with the average MWC team. I'd hate
to see BYU go back to the MWC, if they did it would happen immediately without
I am honestly wondering if Bingham High School would schedule a h-h series with
BYU as of now? Iffy, at best, as I ponder the possibility. Almost bankrupt ESPN
cannot afford teams that get terrible tv ratings......therefore, they will not
renew BYU football.
Strom,Have you ever heard of the concept of timing? It
didn't move because it's the wrong time.They got onto
expansion right after all of the TV market frenzy right before the noticeable
shift to internet TV.You had the CFP but now the PAC is wondering
why they can't get in and USF is saying that 2 perfect seasons in a row
should be enough and that's likely to change too. You seem to
be saying that "if it didn't happen then it will never happen"
actually there was no reason for it to have happened then - that's sort of
the point of the commissioner's remarks. The bigXII will have
membership movement, when it does BYU will remain attractive - but the buy-in
depends on circumstances attached to the movement, which nobody knows yet.
byufootballrocks - Salt Lake City, UTDec. 5, 2018 9:36 a.m.Here's what the truth really is...Yes, speak the truth,
it's all about money, and the subsequent qualities of power and control.----Which is why BYU tried to back door the MWC into the
Not one school, not even the legacy program, with a worldwide brand from down
south?But, but we've been told..."It was
hilarious to see the attendance at the 2-6 PAC championship football game...Adding BYU to your conference will increase attendance across the board at all
venues. Increase TV exposure on BYU TV and ESPN and other networks. Those are
facts. The PAC 12 should put pressure on Cal and Stanford to back off and allow
the Y in. An alternative maybe is to release Utah and Colorado and go back to 10
teams. The Big 12 makes it work. What value does Utah and Colorado bring
anyway?"Source: blue & whiteDec. 4, 2018 8:30
Italian ute,I served my mission in Italy, you are right and wrong.
BYU is a mascot for the church internationally, every member knows
who BYU is.That being said, unless it's calcio nobody knows
sports in Italy or cares, and everybody knows everything there is to know about
soccer. Beyond Italy, I'm from London and travel a lot. Byu has
gained significant benefits from international church groups being the original
pineapple express for football. Byu is still a brand in a lot of international
church markets - the main difference is that unlike Italy, there are more church
members there. A lot of places the church is well known, in Italy it's
pretty sparse to say the least. I'd say 75% of people thought I was a JW,
20% thought I was omish, and 5% knew who I was or thought I was CIA.As for usage from the church being international - I think it's
mismanaged by BYU. Clearly the opportuties exist, but BYU doesn't seem to
search for athletes outside of the US and Polynesia. With name recognition (I
think byu football is the 5th most known college team internationally) little
benefit comes from it. The AD should do better!
real ute"BYU and the B12, like the MWC, AAC, Sunbelt or the Big
Sky Conference don't want anything to do with the Provo parochial
young-adult(?) daycare center."Why, sir, do you not understand
these you speak of had high test scores in high school and median family income
well above their peers at public universities?And, clearly, entrance
standards being high means the school offers the highest quality education.No, this is exclusively the result of persecution
at long..."how can it not move the needle?"Checks standard responses:Refs...NoPersecution...That's it.I'm sure it was the bitterest
persecution, and bigotry of course
If they couldn't move it then, I can't see how they ever could moving
forward.Move on my friends
BYU and the B12, like the MWC, AAC, Sunbelt or the Big Sky Conference don't
want anything to do with the Provo parochial young-adult(?) daycare center.
@stanfunky:"For those saying that Sun Belt, MW, AAC, C-USA and MAC
can't compete, just wait - if you guarantee the access to the playoff, it
will balance out recruiting as EVERY conference matters and has a shot at the
national championship."Brilliant. Dead on. This is what the P5
fears the most - parity. With their top - 4 and top-10 formulas, their exclusive
conferences shielding others out, guaranteeing the best athletes to recruit,
it's a monopoly of the first order.
byufootballrocks "there's zero incentive to expand the pie."You mean that there is zero incentive to SHRINK the pie. With future
television revenues in doubt (cable companies losing subscribers), there was no
guarantee of long term growth. That meant less money in the future, more teams
to pay, and a smaller piece of pie.One can understand ESPN's
position. They have BYU games for about a million. Why pay many times that for
the same thing? That doesn't move ESPN's motivational needle.
@ at long lastWith the huge international following of the religious
school down south (that would be byu), and the alleged massive showing at all
away games in all sports, how can it not move the needle? Anyone care to
explain? Faulty needle maybe? Misreading by the Big 12? Blue goggled assertions
not backed by facts?I would be interested in seeing some stats and
metrics that speak to this but my gut feeling is that this "huge
international following" is a bunch of malarkey. For example, Most church
members in Italy know that BYU is the church educational institution however
they don't know a lick about American college football or even care. I
really just can't imagine that there is any actual following of the
football team (or any of the collegiate sports for that matter) brought to the
table by the International membership of the church. Maybe actual data would
Not to mention that the Fox Sports Network, whom I believe manages the B12
network, threw a ton of money at the B12 to stay with the status quo, as adding
new members would have increased Fox's payout to the conference, as the
contract is on a per team basis. Fox felt it would be cheaper to pay them not to
expand. Why not be honest, Bob? The only thing that moved
anyone's needle was the million$ of dollars Fox threw at you. At least be
Holmoe missed the Big-12 boat, and he is ruining the football and basketball
teams. Like any competent manager should know, ALWAYS build backup plans for
HIS failures. Tom never does, not does he admit to them, nor does he learn. He will keep making the same mistakes and let others shape BYU’s
athletics... not a leader. Leaders never willingly surrenders their control of
future success, of the organization, into the hands of the competition.BYU needs an AD that can build relationships, not one with an over inflated
ego. The Big-12 already has Texas.. The Big-12 can’t handle two drama
Hit them where it hurts, the pocketbook (P5 conferences). Anti-Trust lawsuits
until they allow all of the F.B.S. conferences equal access: Each conference
champion gets a bid, regardless of w/l record, regardless of magical playoff
rankings made in backroom deals by magical criteria, influenced by talking heads
and E$PN. For those saying that Sun Belt, MW, AAC, C-USA and MAC
can't compete, just wait - if you guarantee the access to the playoff, it
will balance out recruiting as EVERY conference matters and has a shot at the
national championship. TV deals will also be realigned by the anti-trust to
make sure all conferences have access, not just the select few (SEC, B1G, ACC).
And times rotate - SEC doesn't get all the prime TV spots they get some
night games and some early AM games.16 team playoff should do it.
10 conference champions and 6 at-large bids, no conference can have more than 1
at-large. No more independents. Notre Dame joins a conference and plays by the
same rules as everyone else, same for BYU, Army, etc.
Here's what the truth really is:Money is the reason there is no
P5 conference expansion, money is the reason that more conferences are shielded
through barriers of entry from getting into the P5. These
commissioners sit there with their mulit-million dollar salaries, and P5 coaches
now earning upwards or 4-8M per year, everyone scratching each others backs, and
there's zero incentive to expand the pie.Universities raking in
10 figures or more in revenue from TV, stadium, and apparel, and there's
zero incentive to expand the pie.It's going to take aggressive
anti-trust legal action, that means lawsuits, in federal court, to expand P5
conferences and introduce an NCAA basketball-like national football playoff,
which type of playoff is what you already have at the high school, junior
college, 3A and 2A levels, right now, and those seem to be working just fine.
Yes, speak the truth, it's all about money, and the subsequent
qualities of power and control.
With the huge international following of the religious school down south (that
would be byu), and the alleged massive showing at all away games in all sports,
how can it not move the needle? Anyone care to explain? Faulty needle maybe?
Misreading by the Big 12? Blue goggled assertions not backed by facts?
"Big 12’s Bob Bowlsby said no regrets not expanding."Interesting comment. I have wondered if in hind sight they may have regretted
not expanding by adding UCF, Memphis, or Houston based on how well their
football teams have performed since the Big 12's decision.
At this point does BYU not move the Big 12 needle but the low fuel light also
comes on. As things currently stand, they’d be fortunate to get back into