Did world leaders listen to the G20 Interfaith Forum?

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  • Lilly Munster , 00
    Dec. 7, 2018 7:44 p.m.

    It is inaccurate to say that Atheistic Nations and their violent Dictators are "responsible for the most murders of innocent people."
    Not even close.
    Add up the victims of WWI and WWII, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Russian Revolution, the Reformation, and Dictatorial Regimes of African and South America.
    ALL were conducted by Believers.
    Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin and Marx were all Jews. Mao and Paul Pot were not an Atheists. They observed animist religions. Pope Piux XII had "Concordats" with Hitler to not interfere with the round up of Jews. That's where Hitler got his list of local Jews....from Catholic Priests.
    The U.S. Civil War was fought by Christians on both sides. The world slave trade was bankrolled by Dutch Jewish Bankers, who owned the slave ships, and conducted slave auctions in the American south. You may check all these facts.
    And let us not forget, all the U.S. wars against Muslims, and the Zionist driven genocide against Palestinians. Who interred the Japanese Americans?
    Can we just tell the truth about all that? Atheists do not go to war. They are too busy avoiding slaughter from Believers, in Europe, Asia and the entire Western Hemisphere.

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Dec. 7, 2018 5:34 p.m.

    I M LDS 2,

    We see that you can make snarky comments. Can you actually respond to my point? Jesus taught people to "love thy neighbor." He did not teach us to just abandon our standards and go around mimicking whatever our neighbors do.

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Dec. 7, 2018 1:38 p.m.

    sashabill

    The "politically correct" community often emphasizes the "inclusiveness" of Jesus' teachings. They seem to have forgotten the part about "Go your way and sin no more."

    Oh, that's right! When Jesus taught about "love thy neighbor", he used that one parable where the guy told the stranger "Go and sin no more"!

    Now I remember!

    \s

  • mikerol seattle, WA
    Dec. 7, 2018 1:15 p.m.

    They have better things to do, not much, but still better than to expose themselves to that bull.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    Dec. 7, 2018 1:02 p.m.

    RiDal - Sandy, UT
    ---
    @J Smith: "Religion and religious wars have proven themselves to be a destructive force in the world. Hopefully sometime in the near future it will all be swept into the dust bin of history....."

    Every significant society in human history has had religion.
    --

    While many cultures have had some form of religious system, experience or concept, a relative few have had the concept of 'one way, is the only way'. Christianity and Islam share this concept. Judaism also has this as a base as well, but has not be come a world power, to enforce across a large number of people.

    The early history of Christianity was in the context of the Roman Empire, which had a wide variety of religious systems. Some religious systems that were not tolerated, usually it was for not acknowledging the 'deity' of the Roman Emperor, in the Empire era. There were a few religious systems and practices that were suppressed, but most conquered regions retained their own local customs, even the Jews were given grants for their religion not only in Judaea but also in communities throughout the Roman Empire.

    Christianity eliminated all other religions, except Judaism for over 1000 years.

  • CMO Beaver Beaver, UT
    Dec. 7, 2018 12:50 p.m.

    probably not

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Dec. 7, 2018 11:51 a.m.

    Sophie62,

    As a fellow member of the "predominant religion" (though it isn't "predominant" where I live), I would remind people that Jesus and His apostles set forth explicit moral standards concerning various patterns of action and behavior, including sexual behavior. They spoke of marriage as constituting a man and a woman. These teachings are contained in the New Testament, where anybody can read them.

    The "politically correct" community often emphasizes the "inclusiveness" of Jesus' teachings. They seem to have forgotten the part about "Go your way and sin no more."

    While it's true that the message of Christianity may be "Come as you are," it is not, and never was, "STAY as you are."

  • Sophie 62 Spring City, UT
    Dec. 7, 2018 1:15 a.m.

    Sashabill - you assume a lot. I am a member of the predominant religion, and I don't have a problem with true followers of Christ extending their love and care in the world. Or other religions.
    Most of the people claiming to be Christians these days seem to have forgotten what Christ said is the first and second commandments, and are far more determined to control the choices other people have a right to make about how to live.
    You say religion is exclusive by nature. I remind you that Christ was not and is not exclusive, but rather inclusive.
    When religious people decide to exclude others, they are missing the point and therein they fail to be true followers.
    It is not the job of religion to control people. Teach the two Great Commandments, and do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.
    Any human who follows these teachings has something of value to offer the world, with or without religion.
    If your main goal is to force people to conform to your ideas, you are following the other plan, not Jesus.
    You know what I'm talking about.
    Religiouss freedom seems to be more about taking the rights of others away, not the freedom to worship as you believe.

  • grounded and rooted Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 8:42 p.m.

    @ Ridal: "Religion attempts to curb mankind's baser instincts, but does so imperfectly. When the constraints of religion are removed, the human mind can rationalize anything."

    Wow...well said. Thank you.

    4 LikedReport

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 8:28 p.m.

    @Ranch: "The BOM is a work of fiction; quoting from it seems rather pointless."

    1-I challenge you to provide any substantive, positive evidence of your claim. And lack of archaeological evidence supporting the BoM is not the same as evidence the BoM is fiction.

    2-To use such language toward what many here hold sacred is as disrespectful as it would be to use epithets to describe sexual minorities. One can hardly condemn mis-treatment from others when one mis-treats others himself. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." You can become what you claim to have hated in others. Or you can demonstrate you are better than those you claim to have cause to hate. So far, you're walling in the mire with those you condemn.

    3-Even if the BoM were fiction, it might well have value in being quoted. Shakespeare's works all avowed fiction and yet are among the most quoted, and quotable of all written works.

    And in that vein, when anti-theists attack religion for trying to improve the lives of the poor and needy, to strengthen families, and to preach peace and freedom, then clearly, "the lad[ies] doth protest too much."

  • NoNamesAccepted St. George, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 8:15 p.m.

    @The Atheist: "Religious activism has caused more than its share of violence, pain suffering, and destruction in human history."

    Religion should not cause any pain, violence, suffering, or destruction. Any is too much and points to the imperfections of even the best of humans. When religious people inflict pain on others, they are generally going contrary to what their church teaches.

    But let us be clear--since the anti-theists feel compelled to make these slanderous claims every time religion is mentioned--comparatively, religion has caused a mere hint of a shadow of the pain, murders, torture, and suffering inflicted by state enforced atheism. In a short 100 years such anti-theism murdered upwards of 100 million innocent civilians. Countless more were tortured.

    Meanwhile, while a few tens of thousands were harmed by religion, millions were benefited with church founded/operated schools and universities, hospitals, soup kitchens, food pantries, youth clubs, financial and marriage counseling, grief support, and humanitarian aid.

    I do not go out of my way to attack lack of belief. But when anti-theists spread lies, bigotry must be countered with undeniable facts.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 6, 2018 5:26 p.m.

    Ranch said. “The BOM is a work of fiction...”

    And you, Ranch, would know this because....?

  • sashabill Morgan Hill, CA
    Dec. 6, 2018 4:43 p.m.

    The various faith-based groups can be very pro-active in community-building and in responding to socio-economic needs, especially on the local level. Examples range from the smaller communities of the Amish and Hutterites, to the many communities built by the LDS people almost from the founding of the church.
    Catholic charities, members of the LDS church, the Baha'i Faith, and others have been involved in establishing schools, agricultural projects, and small family and community-based businesses ( the "micro credit" or "billion bootstraps" principle) in areas from Latin America, to India, the Philippines, and elsewhere.

    Sophie62: Speaking of the "freedom to exclude," I find it interesting how many secularists try to restrict or limit religious advocacy on college campuses (while professing to believe in "tolerance" and "diversity.") Moral standards are, by definition, exclusive, differentiating between various patterns of choice, action, and behavior. The absence of moral standards does not constitute the presence of love, it just constitutes the presence of relativism.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 2:29 p.m.

    hilary said:
    "Did not surprise me in the least all strength to the arms of folk promoting religion and faith in God in any form, spirits are being attacked now, the death of the spirit, diminishing natural affection."

    "We need all the testimony that God lives and Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh that we can get."

    And people wonder why kids arent buying it anymore.

    naysayer said:

    "Certainly the same commentators who routinely attack religion and profess that america was not founded on Christianity are out today in the submitted comments here. "

    Of course. Why wouldnt we be? Are you suggesting that we shouldnt have a voice? Isnt that convenient. You and yours get to decide how/when we get to speak. Pffttt

    As to your other...I suppose 'point'. Jefferson did enjoy adding flowery speech but clearly he was a deist who knew that keeping religion out of government was tantamount.

    "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State." -Thomas Jefferson

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 2:24 p.m.

    @ECR;

    The BOM is a work of fiction; quoting from it seems rather pointless.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 2:21 p.m.

    @J Smith: "Religion and religious wars have proven themselves to be a destructive force in the world. Hopefully sometime in the near future it will all be swept into the dust bin of history....."

    Every significant society in human history has had religion. So, it is probably a good time to remind ourselves that the 20th Century saw, for the first time in human history, regimes that were specifically atheistic, discouraged and actively persecuted religions. The results were that they ended up killing 30-40 million of their own citizens (Communist Russia) and 40-80 million in Maoist China. They killed anyone who was a "reactionary" against the "progress" towards a communist Utopia. It is OK to eliminate "enemies of human progress", isn't it? That is only "rational".

    Religion attempts to curb mankind's baser instincts, but does so imperfectly. When the constraints of religion are removed, the human mind can rationalize anything.

  • Rubydo Provo, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 1:29 p.m.

    Perhaps instead of hob knobbing with the worlds elite, religious leaders should tend to their flocks and congregations and address their issues and needs before sullying the faith to be trampled on by those in power whom have little to no concern for the poor and oppressed. Pearls before swine.

  • Not another naysayer Lehi, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 12:19 p.m.

    Certainly the same commentators who routinely attack religion and profess that america was not founded on Christianity are out today in the submitted comments here. No surprise.

    One of them has the audacity to use the pseudonym of Thomas Jefferson, He says that " 'faith' was invented in the first place"... "To take advantage of the people who will believe things without evidence."

    How little does he know or understand who Thomas Jefferson was. Indeed Jefferson held that "acknowledging and adoring an overruling providence" (as in his First Inaugural Address) was important and in his second inaugural address, expressed the need to gain "the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our fathers, as Israel of old".

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 6, 2018 12:04 p.m.

    J. Smith - I don't doubt the numbers and statistics you quote but all of that should not matter to those who follow their faith.

    Moroni 9:6 "And now, my beloved son, notwithstanding their hardness, let us labor diligently; for if we should cease to labor, we should be brought under condemnation; for we have a labor to perform whilst in this tabernacle of clay, that we may conquer the enemy of all righteousness, and rest our souls in the kingdom of God."

    In other words, regardless of how the world sees 'religion' or belief in the afterlife, those who believe have an obligation to continue to send the great message - 3 Nephi 11:11 "11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning."

    Speak that message whenever possible and we might see those numbers change.

  • hilary nottingham, 00
    Dec. 6, 2018 11:45 a.m.

    Generally speaking now, the world has it that religion causes trouble. Did not surprise me in the least all strength to the arms of folk promoting religion and faith in God in any form, spirits are being attacked now, the death of the spirit, diminishing natural affection. The last rider is abroad. We need all the testimony that God lives and Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh that we can get. Go out and get some everyone. And when you get the testimony of whatever good, decent and true you get, never let it go.

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 11:35 a.m.

    A growing number of people, millions worldwide, say they believe that life definitively ends at death – that there is no God, no afterlife and no divine plan. And it’s an outlook that could be gaining momentum – despite its lack of cheer. In some countries, openly acknowledged atheism has never been more popular.

    “There’s absolutely more atheists around today than ever before, both in sheer numbers and as a percentage of humanity,” says Phil Zuckerman, a professor of sociology and secular studies at Pitzer College in Claremont, California, and author of Living the Secular Life. According to a Gallup International survey of more than 50,000 people in 57 countries, the number of individuals claiming to be religious fell from 77% to 68% between 2005 and 2011, while those who self-identified as atheist rose by 3% – bringing the world’s estimated proportion of adamant non-believers to 13%.

    It’s impossible to predict the future, but examining what we know about religion – including why it evolved in the first place, and why some people chose to believe in it and others abandon it – can hint at how our relationship with the divine might play out in decades or centuries to come.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    Dec. 6, 2018 11:21 a.m.

    "The declaration promises future improvements in access to education, food security, gender equality and other areas. It doesn't mention how faith groups can help governments achieve these goals."

    Faith groups that want to help with education, food security, gender equality and other areas, don't need any government to be telling them how to help.

    Faith groups should enjoy the freedom to work to do good without any strings attached. Why do they want to be constrained by government regulations.

  • jeclar2006 Oceanside, CA
    Dec. 6, 2018 11:14 a.m.

    This 'interfaith' effort, at least as far as those in the US is concerned, flies in the face of the Trump Administration's clear vacating the world stage, calling for the end of 'globalism', at least insofar as the US policies are concerned.

    Trump has had the support of the vocal faithful on all his policies which support exclusion, division, on both the global stage, as well as the home front.

    Freedom of Religion once was being left alone from government interference of religious practices, albeit only if the religion was close or identical to mainstream Christianity. But these days, Freedom of Religion means justified discrimination, exclusion, and demonizing religions that aren't Christian.

    If the US Interfaith workers want to move this project forward, they can start at home, here in the US.

  • J. Smith Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 10:14 a.m.

    Religion and religious wars have proven themselves to be a destructive force in the world. Hopefully sometime in the near future it will all be swept into the dust bin of history.....

  • Sophie 62 Spring City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 10:02 a.m.

    Religious freedom , at least in Utah, seems to tranlate into the freedom to exclude, and the diminution of the rights of people who are not of the predominant religion.
    That is not something I'd like to see proliferated in the world.
    Religions have done great good and they've also done great harm, depending on their general philosophy.
    Currently, the so-called Christian Right seems anything but Christian. I'd hate to see them with more power on the world stage.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 9:06 a.m.

    I looked up any policy recommendations of the G20 Interfaith Forum dealing with the gross inequality of wealth ownership. Nothing, zip, nada. Are they serious?

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 6, 2018 8:28 a.m.

    It;s hard to imagine the most powerful members of the G-20 would be focused on religious freedom when two of them - Vladimir Putin and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman - seemed to be celebrating their collective power over the United States as the US President is too timid to confront either of them - Putin for his unlawful seizure of Ukrainian ships in international waters off the coast of Crimea and MBS for his involvement and ordering of the murder of Saudi journalist and current US resident Jamal Khashoggi, as documented by our intelligence agencies.

  • Thomas Jefferson Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 8:19 a.m.

    "Did world leaders listen to the G20 Interfaith Forum?"

    Only to help them understand how to take advantage and leverage the 'people of faith'. That is why 'faith' was invented in the first place. To take advantage of the people who will believe things without evidence. People who will accept promises which never have to be paid.

    Yeah, they listen.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 8:11 a.m.

    How much media attention is given to the G20 Interfaith Forum ? Are the discussions covered in significant detail ? If the media does not present these events so that the public is even aware, much less cognizant of the issues involved, why should world political leaders be willing to heed them ? ( Is the media negligent in keeping the public informed ? ) And can there indeed be only one representative of such a complex group ? Answers to these questions can help answer the question posed in the headline and article.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    Dec. 6, 2018 5:07 a.m.

    "Interfaith (activism) is not a central part of the G20 process," Marshall said."

    And that is the way it should remain! Religious activism has caused more than its share of violence, pain suffering, and destruction in human history.