"“A huge and growing backlog of applications in the hundreds of
thousands has created perverse incentives for would-be migrants to file spurious
asylum claims, because these can allow them to remain in the U.S. for years
while their cases wait to be processed,” according to a Bloomberg
editorial. “The backlog doesn’t discourage bogus asylum seekers, as
you might suppose; it does the opposite.”"So, they claim
asylum, get in, have a baby and everyone gets to stay forever?Meanwhile immigrants from other countries go through a legitimate screening
process, wait and wait and wait.Put up the barrier that Clinton and
Obama after him asked for, and let's all move on.
There is no reason to keep the government closed because of the border issue.
Federal workers financial lives are being hurt significantly. Politicians made
this mess, not them.
I can't help but note that all of the sources that you site are ultra
liberal and therefore very one sided. Where was the outcry when Obama
referred to the "Border Crisis" on the record? Where was the
outcry when HRC referred to the "Border Crisis" on the record?
Where was the outcry when George Bush referred to the "Border Crisis"
on the record? Where was the outcry when Bill Clinton referred to the
"Border Crisis" on the record. Where was the outcry when
Shumer and Pelosi and a host of other sitting Democrats referred to the
"Border Crisis", ALL ON THE RECORD. Everyone, for years, has
agreed that there has been and is a Crisis on our Southern Border and also
agreed and appropriated monies for a barrier to be built. The ONLY difference
now is that it is TRUMP who is asking for it, and they hate him; a rabid,
mindless hatred. They blather about the wasteful expense of building
the wall, while thinking NOTHING of the 150B PER YEAR that we taxpayers are
expected to pay to foot the bill for all of the illegal immigrants who are
living within the borders of our nation already. And WE are supposed to feel
guilty for wanting them to knock.
300,000+ apprehended. How many people, drugs, weapons, etc. have gotten through
the border without being detected? The democrats plan for the border is to
install a Ring Doorbell and leave the front door open. I can't take people
seriously who live insulated from the mess. Obama- wall around his house,
Clinton- wall around her house. Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, etc walls, gated
communities, they all have armed protection. We have a poverty problem in
America. Employers will pay less to illegals and treat them poorly because they
know they won't complain. Instead of supporting a $15 minimum wage,
support e-verify and all those entry positions will be open to citizens looking
for work. Billions of dollars every year are made by illegal aliens (cash under
the table, or filed with a stolen or fake SS number) and sent back to their home
countries. We are a sovereign nation, and the NUMBER ONE job of government, the
President's main priority, is to keep America safe. Congress, give him the
funding, build the wall.
@ ZIONFORMAN"Walls work. Quit stalling."There
are, by my count, 23 USA counties that adjoin the Mexico border. In the 2016
election, 17 of those counties preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump.Currently, there are 17 members of US Congress who represent districts
that adjoin the Mexican border. 15 of 17 of those elected representatives are
against Trump's wall.The question is what do you know about
walls that these legislators and their millions of constituents don't know?
All these people literally live on the border. I don't think you do.
During 1986 The US Border Patrol caught more than 600,000 illegal border
crosser's in the San Diego sector.In 1991 The US government built a
46 mile long, 8 to 10 foot tall, primary fence between Tijuana, Mexico and San
Diego, California to stop the illegal vehicle traffic into the US.In 1997
The US government built a 13 mile long, 14 to 18 foot high, secondary fence
between Tijuana, Mexico and San Diego, California to stop the illegal foot
traffic.During 2015 on the San Diego sector of the US border only 26,290
illegals were apprehended.The US Department of Homeland Security reports
that illegal border crosser's have decreased by 90% since the walls were
built.Walls work. Quit stalling.
@ SaysTheFox"In the early 80’s I had friends who lived on
an unassuming street in a Chula Vista, where twice a day vans and busses would
drop off hundreds and thousands of Illegal Aliens."Just doing
simple math: if a bus holds 50 passengers, it would take 20 buses to move 1,000
people. You say twice a day? That must have been a very busy
"unassuming" street. Chula Vista and San Ysidro are
primarily Hispanic communities. How do you know the people were illegal
aliens?Hyperbole aside, San Diego is regarded as one of the safest
big cities in the country. Maybe you should go back and get a
fresher view of your 35-year-old memories.
The fact that Trump and the Republican-controlled house and senate did not make
this a priority over the past two years causes me to question whether they
themselves really believe it is a crisis.
I’m a California Refugee- I fled the crime, high taxes and corrupt
politics years ago. In the early 80’s I had friends who lived on an
unassuming street in a Chula Vista, where twice a day vans and busses would drop
off hundreds and thousands of Illegal Aliens. People would scatter. That’s
what it’s called.The invasion over 30 years has worked: everything
is in dual language, social, legal and educational rights are given freely and
now EXPECTED.All the while, American senior citizens, Veterans, blacks in
big cities are underserved! Build the wall- and change the asylum
laws! Welcome in those who seek to make America their home- legally!
@Thid BarkerWe're not giving 80 billion to Mexico. The US spent 42
billion in aid in 2017 to the entire globe. It's 1% of the budget (with
your math it doesn't take many Mexicos to be the entire budget). The
biggest recipient? Afghanistan at 4.7 billion. Israel in second at 3.1 billion.
The amount to Mexico is around 320 million.What you might be mixing
up with this... and it's still a very different number, is the 25 billion
Mexicans living in the US send home to Mexico in remittances.
Think about this. Thisis like three brand new cities such as Grand Junction
Idaho Falls and St. George just popping up. I would think 300,000 a year IS a
crisis. We are nitpicking little words. It is adding to the problem. It is with
the spirit of what he is saying.
I agree with DN Subscriber - Cottonwood Heights, UT. Do not open the government
completely with the Nancy and Chuck's promise to discuss the border crisis
later! That's what Reagan did in 1986 -- he offered amnesty to the then
illegal residents in exchange for illegal immigration policy changes from
congress and never got it! Let's get this barrier installed once and for
all. We pay for other countries to install barriers but neglect to do so on our
southern border. That makes no sense. Believe the Border Patrol officers who are
on the line every day. One such officer said that he had personally caught
people from 44 different countries coming across our southern border -- they
know our weaknesses and how easy it is to cross there! Barriers work! Get it
Great article. Here are some additional facts reported on PRI, Jan.
4th citing Dept. of Homeland Security's data for FY2018:Trump
says that 17,000 "criminals" were apprehended trying to get across the
border. However, 63% of those 16,831 criminal aliens were encountered at legal
ports of entry - a 1000 mile wall would be a waste. Only 6,259
individuals apprehended by Border Patrol were actually found to have criminal
convictions. Those individuals get fast-tracked for deportation.47
percent of the 6,259 individuals were convicted for illegally entering or
re-entering the United States - their only crime was trying to get into the US.
14 percent have DUIs. One in ten has a drug offense.Only 13 percent,
or about 800 people, have records of violence or convictions for sexual or
firearms offenses. That's less than 1 percent of the total 362,000
apprehended by the Border Patrol in that period.That is a ratio of
1:450. By contrast, one in 12 adult Americans has a felony conviction.Maybe Mexico should be putting up a wall to keep Americans out!Trump is stoking fear and hatred. For God hath not given us the
spirit of fear; but of power and love and of a sound mind.
Arrests and overall attempts to cross the border illegally may be down, but
arrests are still topping 300,000 annually. That's about .1% of our
nation's population. How many does it take to become a crisis?Border patrol, ICE and homeland security have a lot of responsibilities. If
we can do something to allow them to focus on something with a more direct
impact on our security, like drug interdiction, or tracking down felons crossing
our borders, that would be a good investment. They can't simply ignore
border crossings, but if barriers were put up where homeland says they are
needed, that could cut the number of illegal crossings and arrests way down, and
free up border patrol resources to work on those other responsibilities.
Presidents Clinton, Bush 43 and Obama thought enough of this solution to cause
650 miles of wall to be built on our southern border in their tenures. Why are
we turning our noses up at this same solution now?
@ Utes Fan,“There are millions of unemployed Americans. Put
them to work. If wages rise - good. Let the market work. I thought Dems
supported rising wages for Americans????????”And you believe
that native American citizens are flocking to jobs that require them to pick
fruit, milk cows, clean toilets, and wash dishes in restaurants all for
$7.25/hour?I have a bridge for sale that I’d like to speak
with you about.@ Thid Barker,Re: your stake dinner wager that
you are willing to bet that $87 billion of foreign aid is given Mexico every
year —- medium-rare @ Maddox in Brigham City.
Facts are pesky little critters and shame on the DN for inserting truth and
accuracy into this debate.
@Watcher1“The president needs to bypass congress completely
and get this done. “So, the Constitution means nothing?
There's no crises; the boat is sinking more slowly than claimed.
The president needs to bypass congress completely and get this done. He's
asking for less than 10% of the foreign aid we give out, and less than we spend
in one month in Afghanistan . . . for what? We have a Department of Defense,
and that department finally has a healthy budget. And, its primary
responsibility is to defend the United States of America . . . not Syria, not
Germany, not any other country. We need to ensure that we can control the
entrance of drugs, gangs, human trafficking, cartels, terrorists, and those who
exact billions/year for education, medical, dental, housing, food, etc.,
subsidies from the taxpayers.
1 coming across the border illegally is a crisis. Just because it is a crisis
does not mean that it is necessarily a bigger crisis. The border agents say they
need more wall to do their job properly. Give it to them and stop trying to
second guess those who are responsible
@patriot"and the President have already stated the numbers and
made the case."And the President said Mexico would pay for it.
We're waiting.@Samson01 ""Obviously
undetected illegal entry is going to be undocumented and unaccounted
for."Obviously, if illegal entry is undocumented and unaccounted
for how do we know we have a crisis?@DN Subscriber"Congress' failure to pass appropriations resulted in the
shutdown"Congress passed a bipartisan short-term appropriations
bill to avoid the shutdown; a bill the President said he would sign until
Limbaugh, Coulter, and Hannity "triple-dog-dared" him not to.
patriot - Cedar Hills, UT---Both Secretary Nielsen, Our US Border
and Customs Agents and the President have already stated the numbers and made
the case.---Did you actually read the article? The numbers
stated in the article, in part, come from Homeland Security and the State Dept.,
and indicate there is no massive wave of terrorists nor drugs passing through
the uninhabited regions of the US/Mexico Border.The most like group
of people who are now apprehended in those areas, are groups consisting of
approx. 50% women and children, and given the decline of Mexican nationals using
that pathway, they are most likely Central Americans fleeing violence in their
respective home countries.The numbers counter the President's
claims about an emergency, and even counter a claim that a Wall is the best
solution for further border security.There are walls/barrier methods
in place now. With monitoring and enforcement methods have reduced the illegal
transborder crossings to 20-25% of the 1.6M level set in 2000, 19 years ago.But even more telling is that due to economic improvements in Mexico,
fewer Mexicans are moving north.That should be the direction of any
I laugh anytime I read a comment suggesting the Deseret News is a liberal media
outlet. People who hold such beliefs are so far removed from reality I have a
hard time understanding them. President Trump believes a wall will
improve the border situation. I'm open to that opinion but he needs to
provide evidence that 1) there is a crisis, and 2) that the wall will fix the
problem. The evidence I've seen suggest there are problems with
our border but the problems have actually been improving over the last ~10
years. To me, these problems aren't a crisis but need to be addressed. I have yet to see any evidence that suggests Trump's wall will make a
meaningful improvement in the problems we're still facing. The vast
majority of illegal immigrants and drugs come through the border through legal
ports of entry, where walls already exist. I want to see real estimates about
how much the wall could reduce illegal immigration, drug flow, etc. If a wall
will make meaningful improvements, let's build it. But if it won't, we
could use that $5.7b on more border agents, drones, etc that might get a better
return on investment.
The educator, I do not appreciate being called a liar. This is not a made up
story. This happened to me and does happen in Utah and in other states. I am
sharing this story because people keep bringing up how awful it is to separate
the families, and need to know it happens all the time in America. Why do you
think it is okay to say someone is telling a false story when you have no idea
about my life and experiances, you do not not even know me. Shame on you. Just
because you have been an educator does not mean you know all that has happens to
others with the education system. Thankfully I had parents that pulled me out
immediately, because what they were doing to me was harming their daughter! I
was told by my principal that he didn't care if I had to be in the sick
room all day I still had to be there! Tell me was he concerned about my
education or was I just a head count? He also told me there was a student in my
class dying of cancer and that student was expected to be in their seat
everyday! I lost all respect for that man and thought he was a horrible person
to me after that. He was principle Rowely. Do not attack others when you do not
know the facts about their life! T
@cityboy"What silliness to suggest Dems want more illegal
immigrants in the US in order to create more Dems."___Not silly
at all. Dems KNOW their are millions of votes to gain. Admittedly, Repubs lust
for votes also (in different ways)."26% of all agricultural
workers, 13% of construction workers and who knows whatbpercentage of
house/motel/hotel cleaners are non-citizens. What would happen if their
employers were heavily fined or their businesses shut down? ... food and travel
would sky-rocket and there would be a huge labor shortage."___There are millions of unemployed Americans. Put them to work. If wages rise -
good. Let the market work. I thought Dems supported rising wages for
Americans????????"The only crisis that this country is
experiencing right now is a leadership void at the very top."___I didn't vote for Trump. But I give him credit when he is right. Pelosi,
Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib etc. are part of that leadership crisis.Also,
regarding the crisis at the border - are you aware of Obama's border chief
Mark Morgan's comments? I listen to those that have first-hand experience -
and he does. His comments are the facts we should be paying attention to!
My sources say Mexico gets $87.66 billion in foreign aid every year. I wrote my
congressman on this! I will wager a steak dinner I am right! Why? A measly $270
MILLION wouldn't pay for much aid for a country with 115 million people!
That's only about $2.35/person/year! That's no "aid" it is
Thid Barker - Victor, ID---In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico
$87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to
deduct $5.7 billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets
about $82 billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except
criminal aliens and liberal Democrats!---Deducting an amount
from a 'gift' does not mean Mexico paid anything, as the neither the
gift nor the deduction came from the revenue the Mexican Government receives
from its taxes or other income sources such as oil sales.Unless of
course one believes that a car dealership 'pays' for the sale discount
on a car. If the new owner then 'pays' for a wall to be built around
their house with the discount amount, the dealer sure didn't pay for it.
Thank you for presenting some home truths about immigration. It's not a
crisis, unless someone overreacts and panics. Trump could have had $25 Billion
for the wall back in 2017 if he would have also signed off on DACA, as he
promised to do. Instead, he reneged and saved the wall for a manufactured crisis
at a later date. Republicans need to realize that people such as myself are no
longer registered Republicans because of politicians like Trump who cannot be
trusted to carry through with the deals necessary to keep government running.Government is the art of compromise and "the second best", as
one quote goes. An all-or-nothing attitude does not lead to good government.
@Thid Barker,“In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico $87,660,000
in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to deduct $5.7
billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets about $82
billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except criminal aliens
and liberal Democrats!”Clearly you have no concept of how the
executive and legislative branches of government function. Trump does not have
a debit card on the federal treasury to spend as he pleases. Regardless, your
figures are way goofy. The US provided $290 million in foreign aid to Mexico in
2017. The down-payment Trump presently wants for his boondoggle of a wall is
$5.7 BILLION. Can you see the problem with the math?
@Thid Barker - Victor, IDIn 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico
$87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose President Trump issues an executive order to
deduct $5.7 billion which means Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets
about $82 billion and LEGAL immigration continues! Everybody wins, except
criminal aliens and liberal Democrats!= = = = =Actually the
figure is $289,985,165.00 (that's M as in Million) - source USAID.
There IS a crisis at the border -- today at least.trump is at the
border.With his most recent lie: "All four living presidents
told me they support the wall."And a quick check with all four
living presidents confirmed that not one of them has ever even spoken with him
about the wall -- much less told him that they support it.Yup. There
IS a crisis at the border and its name is trump . . . .God Help
PhiloBeddoe - , 00"Spains" (sic) fence with Africa: In 2014,
2,100 immigrants successfully crossed from Morocco into Spain, but the fence
reduced this number substantially to approximately 100 in 2015. More
importantly, however, the fence has greatly discouraged people from even
attempting to illegally cross into Spain. In 2014, approximately 19,000 people
attempted to cross into Spain. That number diminished to approximately 3,700 in
2015. It appears that the greatest role the fence has played is in convincing
immigrants not to even attempt to enter Spain, which has greatly reduced illegal
immigration rates.Sounds like Spains (sic) barrier works"=
= = = = =NO! Now they are coming by boat!
Wonderful article. Who is this Gillian Friedman? Neat that a Deseret News
staffer is tackling doing a fact-check on the president. We expect such
fact-checking from the national media, but am a little surprised to see such a
story generated here. It is neat to see the DesNews delving in. -- John
Jackson (aka Immifriend)
In 2018, the U.S. government gave Mexico $87,660,000 in foreign aid. Suppose
President Trump issues an executive order to deduct $5.7 billion which means
Mexico pays for the wall and Mexico still gets about $82 billion and LEGAL
immigration continues! Everybody wins, except criminal aliens and liberal
worf - McAllen, TX"For thirty years I've taught school a
half mile from the border. I've known many people from both sides.=
= = = Worf,If that's case, why have your neighbors in
McAllen that have land along the river hired lawyers to sue the government when
they are served with "Eminent Domain" notices?People have already
rejected government offers, the government isn't taking just a narrow strip
they want 100 - 300 yards for double fences, clear observation strips and roads.
They will destroy the National Butterfly sanctuary. The will knock
down the La Lomita Chapel in Mission, TX ( a 160 year old historic landmark).Your neighbors have also indicated that the problem is nowhere near as
big as you and Trump are making it to be. All he trying to do is occupy the news
so that his myriad other legal problems are hidden from view. There are a couple
of live interviews of these "neighbors" currently on the TV.There are Eight congressional districts (both Democrat and Republican) along
the border in Calif., Ariz, N Mex, and Texas - all eight (including your
representative) are against the wall or fence and all say that is
unnecessary.All this to satisfy an enormous EGO.
DN Subscriber - Cottonwood Heights, UT"You can spin the data any
way you like...............................Democrats have promised to
secure the border in exchange for amnesty or other "compromises" since
1986 but have not done so. . . . . . . . ."= = = = =
=in 2017 a bi-partisan bill was forwarded to Trump giving him everything
he wanted including money for a wall in exchange for "The Dreamers
Amnesty" (DACA) which Trump indicated he would sign, before he decided he
wouldn't, and said he wanted more. This time the Democrats are
not going to give him anything until he opens the government. They found out
about him just like all of his contractors and tenants have, "don't
trust him to do what he says he'll do".
We don't know what to believe.The only thing that sticks in my
mind from my college statistics class is a warning from the professor. He said
you have to be very careful with numbers; the same numbers can be skewed and
spun to produce any result desired. I'm sure the conservatives and
liberals alike manipulate statistics to support their position. Both sides use
the numbers to tell whatever story they want to portray.A respected
mentor of mine from years ago used to say, "there are three sides to every
story: my side, your side, and the truth." I believe every person begins
with a certain mindset, and whatever story they tell is biased by that initial
mindset. It's inevitable. With all the media that's fed to us from
so many different sources, we simply don't know what to believe. It brings
to mind Pontius Pilate's cynical question in the Bible, "What is
truth?"How can we ever know?
Both Secretary Nielsen, Our US Border and Customs Agents and the President have
already stated the numbers and made the case. The numbers (from our Border
Agents) speak for themselves. Add to the mix the caravan that just finished and
the horror of that mess for the people from Central America as well as Mexico
and the fact that we had to deploy US army troupes to protect our border. Oh and
word is another caravan is set for to happen in 2019. Most on the political left
(Deseret News included) are happy with the status quo at the border because it
is basically an open border which they want. Let's see if this post sees
the light of day!!
Those who yearn for this silly wall can build one themselves. How about a good
old fashioned Amish wall raising? Don't waste my money on that boondoggle.
@ConservativeCommonTator"So, Karen, as long as illegals don't
commit as many crimes as citizens, the increase in the number of crimes is OK
with you? That is what you're saying! No illegals means no crimes by or
against illegals!"Replace illegals with any other demographic
and read that again...@Silo"When there is at least one US
citizen murdered at the hands of illegal aliens in our country, there IS a
border crisis. Build the wall!"So you support a total and
complete ban on guns?@ Illuminated"Obama is on the record
saying there was a "humanitarian crisis at the border". If it was a
crisis way back then, it's an even bigger crisis now. Or do Democrats
disavow Obama now?"When Obama spoke of a crisis he was referring
to the number of unaccompanied minors crossing the border. It was a humanitarian
crisis. We still have issues with there being a refugee/asylum seeker
humanitarian crisis.This is a trumped up manufactured crisis
ostensibly about security even though undocumented immigrants commit crimes at
lower rates, just like when Trump sent troops to the border until the election
was over, then apparently it's fine.
The truth is not being shared about the caravan. The caravan was organized by
Amercans that want our borders opened. They are people that hate this country
and want it to be destroyed. The people in the caravan were being bused to the
border. They had food and water, mobile medical units ect. Millions of dollars
have been spent to create this caravan. The demacrats purposly create a problem
and then use it to fool the American people into believing it, because they know
the American people for the most part are kind and caring and they use it
against us all the time to get what they want. The reporter I listened to
actually went there in person to find out the truth. He spoke with the migrants
and he he asked why they are trying to get here they said for a job not that
they were running from abuse in their country. People do not have a right to
come here illegal for a job. Also he said that 90% of them are men and he
witnessed them putting the women and children in front of them as human shields.
There were many that were angry because they had been lied to about being able
to come into our country easily. The people that keep organizing these caravans
need to be arrested.
The problem here is that so many people have bought into the amnesty idea for
most illegals. Media and politicians (both parties) are generally agreed that
there is no problem with most illegal aliens living and working in the US. This is a problem. There are perhaps 22 million people unlawfully
present in the USA. And there is no clear understanding as to which ones are
good illegals and which ones are bad.The politicians can't seem
to muster up an amnesty plan, so we've got this silent amnesty or de facto
amnesty riding along for over a decade now.But out here in the
kitchens of America, we DO have a problem with unlawful presence and we DO want
the border more secure and we DO want to see more enforcement by way of ID theft
prosecutions, worksite raids, E Verify, No Match letters, local cooperation and
deportations.Elected officials are way out there on this one, and
the wall is just a slice of the problem. We want our laws enforced, not co-opted
by circuit court judges.
@ mom"Children are taken from families everyday in America when
their parents break the law. This is just another liberal talking point.
Children are taken from their families in America just because they miss to many
days in the government run schools. I know this for a fact. I attended school in
Manti Utah and they tried taking me from my parents just because I missed to
many days for health reasons."You're having problems with
the truth again. This doesn't happen. In fact, Utah has some of the most
lax attendance laws around because we are such a conservative state. If you have
problems with our government, maybe you should start with our republican
controlled legislature. But using your made up story as a reason to
separate families at the border is nonsense. It doesn't help your case. Why
not rush more lawyers and judges to the border to help process all of the new
asylum seekers and immigrants?Get Educated
This article wanted to disagree but couldn't fully disagree.On
some level it's a crisis - and the media and dems praising the caravans on
prime time bought this reaction from trump. There isn't a
single logical solution better than a wall out there, and a lot of solutions to
make the wall effective, but the democrat solutions don't seem to be
effective without a wall.
@ Illuminated"Obama is on the record saying there was a
"humanitarian crisis at the border". If it was a crisis way back then,
it's an even bigger crisis now. Or do Democrats disavow Obama now?"Completely different situation. Thousands of kids were left at the
border. It was a humanitarian crisis. Donald's humanitarian crisis is
completely self-inflicted. He created this. He's the one separating
families and putting kids in cages. He's the one that isn't rushing
lawyers and judges to the border to process the new people. He's the one
that shut down the government. Sorry, you're not going to
distract us from your boy's failing presidency by creating another crisis
at the border. Your side has gotten real good at creating weekly chaos.
That's not going to work here. Your boy is going to be held accountable.Facts matter!Get Educated
A woman with three kids that speak no English, have no money enter the U.S. .
Where does she live? How does she get food? What happens when a child gets
sick? Each child sitting in our schools in Utah cost us $7,500 a year and add
to the over crowding. Chris Stewart was raising money for school supplies for
20,000 refugee kids. The state says there is between 30,000 and 50,000 kids in
our school that have both parents that are illegals. If you take the low
number you have 50,000 refugee kids and kids whose parents are illegals costing
the state of Utah taxpayers a half of billion dollars a year just for education.
Money that we can use to educate our own kids. They add to our over crowding
and since they speak no English require the teacher to spend more time with
them. I never see the news talking about cost. The misinformation just
doesn't stop. Your report uses data from before sanctuary city's to
now where the data isn't available. We see video of people storming the
boarder on social media because the media wants to hide the truth. This article
could easily been written right leaning rather than left.
The only "crisis" is that President Trump threw an adult temper tantrum
about not getting his promised border wall (ironically, while he had a
Republican controlled Congress for the past two years) and decided to hold
Congress and the American people hostage by refusing to sign a budget bill
unless $5.7 billion was included in the bill to build his promised wall (which,
by the way, he promised would be paid for by Mexico, not by U.S. tax
dollars)--which shut down the government.Then, in order to avoid the
political fallout of his ill-advised actions, he had to try to manufacture a
"crisis" to justify his actions, which has now resulted in government
workers not getting paid, and government services not being performed. Now that
the thinks he has convinced Americans that there is a "crisis," he has
threatened to continue the government shutdown for months or even years, until
he gets his way.I have always thought that a businessman with a
"my way or the highway" attitude would make a poor president, because in
order to get things done in the political arena there must be compromise to
acknowledge differing interests. President Trump is proving that premise to be
1aggie I am tired of the comment about separating families. Children are taken
from families everyday in America when their parents break the law. This is just
another liberal talking point. Children are taken from their families in America
just because they miss to many days in the government run schools. I know this
for a fact. I attended school in Manti Utah and they tried taking me from my
parents just because I missed to many days for health reasons. I came from a
good family,but because I wasn't in my seat everyday they were going to
separate me from my family.It is about the head count, they get money for every
child that is in their seat. Please stop the misinformation. Illegals separate
their own families all the time. They send their children alone all the time.
American families are separated all the time. This is about protecting American
families which should be our presidents first concern and is. These people are
not coming here to be Americans. They do not care about who we are and our
ideals and it will change this country into what they are running from. We
always have welcomed legal immigrants, they want to be Americans because they
understand why we are free!
Republicans are not being truthful on immigration. They use immigration as a
wedge issue to motivate their base in order to conquer and divide the nation.
Illegal immigration is an economic more than a criminal problemLets set
aside the emotion and partisanship and have an honest debate on immigration.
@ silo - Sandy, UTOne of the reasons for decline was the increase in
boarder patrol officers.
"We now have an actual humanitarian crisis on the border that underscores
the need to drop the politics and fix our immigration system once and for
all".-Barack Obama, 2014I agree Mr. Obama. Call up
Chuck and Nancy and tell them to get it done!
Obama is on the record saying there was a "humanitarian crisis at the
border". If it was a crisis way back then, it's an even bigger crisis
now. Or do Democrats disavow Obama now?
I lived in the border area through much of the 80's and 90's and have
many friends still in the area...illegals that transited near my home and
sometimes availed themselves of tools from my work truck opportunistically
parked on the street. The stories I hear now are really no different than they
were back then. Crisis? If it is now, it was then. If it isn't
now, it wasn't then.Why no conversation surrounding what
attracts these people in the first place? The availability of jobs here. My
entire adult life I have watched half-hearted (at best) efforts to hold
employers accountable for hiring undocumented (illegal) workers. Serious about
getting the matter under control? Why not address it at the level of businesses
that hire (with a wink) these people. Put an appropriately robust control system
in place, put a few businesses out of existence and punish their owners, the
message quickly gets out that there is a very specific "correct" way to
hire and be hired. Limiting the workforce means higher prices for hotels,
veggies etc. Things might be a bit painful but new equilibrium would eventually
be reached. My 2 cents.
@Utes Fan,“They know the vast majority of immigrants crossing
the border will vote Left-leaning, which puts party above America.”What silliness to suggest Dems want more illegal immigrants in the US in
order to create more Dems. The fact is that most illegal immigrants are not
sneaking into this country, they are flying in and over-staying their visas. No
wall, however high, will prevent that.If Repubs were serious about
curtailing illegal immigration they’d go after those that are employing
them. It is estimated that 26% of all agricultural workers, 13% of construction
workers and who knows whatbpercentage of house/motel/hotel cleaners are
non-citizens. What would happen if their employers were heavily fined or their
businesses shut down? Trump’s base would revolt against him and prices
for construction, food and travel would sky-rocket and there would be a huge
labor shortage.Trump needs to put the government back to work and
sit down with both houses of Congress to tackle immigration reform including
border security.The only crisis that this country is experiencing
right now is a leadership void at the very top.
There is indeed a border crisis. Obama's former Border Patrol chief Mark
Morgan said the following recently while questioned by Tucker Carlson:Question: "When you hear the term "Manufactured crisis" ... what
is your response?"MARK MORGAN: "My response is those people
that are saying that—Anybody that says that, Tucker, is misinformed and
they're misleading the American people. ""Every
day...we worked human trafficking cases, we worked drug cases, and we worked
drug and gang cases, all impacting the southern border.""I
was briefed every single day about the men and women who are risking their lives
every day and they’re apprehending murderers, rapists, pedophiles, other
violent offenders, and gang members," Morgan continued. "That is not
manufactured, that is real, and that's a fact and it’s still
happening today.""And I would say, one last point is, 127
Border Patrol agents have died," Morgan added. "They didn’t die
playing Monopoly. They died defending, being the frontline defenders of our
borders, trying to apprehend 17,000 people, the bad people, that Secretary
Nielsen mentioned. I wondered if he asked their families if this was a
The article showed there were about 400,000 illegal immigrants last year.
I'd bet we spend at least $10,000 on each illegal immigrant. At $10,000 per
person that's $4B. The wall pays for itself in one year. Not a bad return
Pres. Trump promotes the concept of "fake news." Now, those who want to
justify a differing point of view on an issue (usually in the face of facts that
don't support such point of view) simply label the opposing point of view
as "fake news." Such phenomenon coincides with the practice of major
news agencies, in presenting commentary, characterization or "spin" on
the actual facts, as objective news. It's fascinating to juxtapose CNN and
Fox News to see how each channel presents the same set of facts in a polar
opposite manner. But, such practices create a dangerous political
environment.About 80 years ago, in a country not that far away,
there was an unpopular ethnic group accused of engaging in crimes, stealing jobs
from the dominant ethnic group, and causing a societal financial crisis. The
popular leader of that country implemented a "solution" that remedied
the perceived problem & created economic prosperity--namely, eradicating the
offenders and confiscating their property--while a supposedly rational,
civilized society looked the other way. I'm hopeful the current
"fake news" mentality won't spawn an even remotely similar solution
for our alleged "border crisis."
@Silo wrote: "When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of
illegal aliens in our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!"Your argument makes as much sense as saying that as long as one child is
hungry, the taxpayers should provide turkey dinners every night for every child
in America.Everybody agrees that we should protect the nation's
borders. The issue is whether building a 2,000-mile-long wall (or fence or
slats) will solve the problem or whether it's a foolish use of scarce
resources that could be used for more effective solutions.Also, when
Trump says he could build that wall "quickly," you know he's
delusional. No project of that magnitude, which would involve thousands of
complex property and environmental issues will be built quickly or for the price
Trump is talking about. And Mexico won't pay one red cent for it. You and
I will.Time to stop bandying about campaign slogans and get real
about the problem.
Data gathering can be done in a way that supports a point of view. Without
knowing the sources and how it was gathered and without in-depth analysis it is
meaningless. The immigration crisis is not new and congress has not addressed
the problem for generations. At least Trump is trying. I know the value of
legal immigration having worked in many manufacturing operations in our state.
There were times when we could not handle the growth we faced relying on our
native Utah work force alone. Our system is broken in many ways, I also had a
coworker who was a veteran of the US Navy. He married a woman from the
Philippines, in the almost 10 years that I worked with him he was not able to
get his wife into the US. He would save all his vacation and could only be with
her then. This is a travesty for someone who served our nation. We have a
desire to help others who are needy, but illegal immigration is not the way to
do it. The crime, drugs, and human trafficking have got to stop. Even one life
lost by illegal immigration is too much. The brave men and women who are trying
to keep us safe at the border need the things they are asking for. Support
Irresponsible article taken out of context and fails to address the billions
every year from uncontrolled illegals crossing into the US; also the failed
immigration system which, in itself, is a crisis... and has long been so.
Hold the phone.Crisis? Absolutely.We think there are 11
million illegals. There are 22 million.They are here working. That
means ID fraud on the face of it. (Or, simple tax evasion in an underground
economy.)They will get older and get disabled and be unable to care
for themselves. What then? We are not going to simply watch them die.Most politicians (both parties) think that most of them are law abiding and
should be granted amnesty.Crisis? If you don't see a crisis in
immigration, you aren't looking.
The high price of housing is a major factor in poorer quality of life for the
middle class and the poor. Population density is the main driver of the price of
land, and thus the price of housing. High immigration is the main driver of
population density. See, for example, Immigration and the revival of
American Cities by Jacob L. Vigdor for the Americas Society/Council of the
Americas and the Partnership for a New American Economy, in which he claims that
more than 40 million immigrants currently in the united states have increased
housing prices nationwide by $3.7 trillion. Or, get the population and housing
price data for 1900 to 2010 from the Bureau of the Census and do your own
Difficult to see how gettin permits and the years required to build a thirty
foot Medieval wall is a huge emergency. Political power moves only will reap
future election results.
Lots of collusion with Russia, no crisis at the border with Mexico, terrible
mistreatment of government workers, decaying American democracy and failed
Washington politics, incompetent self serving party politicians, greed over
patriotism: and that is the news of the day. Check back tomorrow for much of the
same. Stay healthy, happy and be nice to your neighbor.
Oilerfan,Like many other cities, crime rates have been dropping in
McAllen over the past 10+ yrs. McAllen does not appear on the list of cities
with highest number of car thefts. (In fact, TX cities appear on the low end
among the highest rates of car theft in the U.S.)
Very distorted article and taken out of context. The truth is that there has
long been a crisis... not just now. Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and both Bush
presidents declared there was. Get the story right.
@Impartial7 - DRAPER, UT"It's just that some right wingers
don't like that the truth reflects poorly on their party. Kudos,
D-News."___________Plenty of comments have pointed out
flaws in the so-called "facts", and logical fallacies in this article.
"Truth" is hardly the correct word for this article. "Opinion"
is more appropriate. As far as party is concerned? Please.
Don't make it appear as if the Left is not protecting their turf. They know
the vast majority of immigrants crossing the border will vote Left-leaning,
which puts party above America.
"It is now a crisis because Trump is attempting to actually enforce
immigration law. During the Obama administration, they processed illegals and
let them into the country and gave them a court date to re-appear before a judge
like 3 months later. Of course, most illegals don't. That is the
crisis."In general I agree. The crisis is the asylum process,
and a wall does nothing for that.Actually Obama was just following
the law and the wait can be as long as 6 months....so change the law and fund
resources for the asylum process. That's what Democrats have been crying
2nd tryThe fact is , we need immigrants. They contribute in a
variety of ways to the strength and future of this country. What we are doing
now is diverting scarce resources from focusing and catching the criminal
element to terrorizing families fleeing violence and govt corruption/chaos in
other countries. We are terrorizing people who already are contributing in
positive ways to this country. The separation of children from their parents is
immoral and causes permanent damage to these young, innocent lives. Shame on
us. We need smart solutions. Republicans and Democrats could find
areas of agreement. It is not a $6 billion border wall.
This morning, Trump was asked when the 'crisis' began and he pointed
back to Obama's presidency.When a reporter raised the obvious
follow-up -- that Trump has been the president for the past 2 years -- Trump
fell apart. Trump certainly did not address what lots of Americans
have been reasonably asking and expecting to be answered.He said
"Look, look, you can all play cute" and then accused the press being
"80%" in coordination" with the "opposition party".
There was not a single syllable of substance offered to answer this question.
Even his anti-media, Trump-as-victim non-answer did not make sense
compared to the typical agit-prop Trump uses to get his base in a lather.Trump fans/followers can keep telling themselves that these are the
words and actions of a "strong leader". That is between you and Trump
to work out.But for the rest of America, this is the rhetorical
equivalent of an overwhelmed unprepared man curled up sobbing the floor of his
closet, not wanting to face the day and the consequences of his poor life
choices.Crisis? Sounds like someone told Trump
"no" for the first time in his life. I can see how that would rock this
poor guy's world.
This article is a good reminder of all of us who support building the wall to be
very careful which/who's "facts" you listen to.This
article is obviously one trying to tell us "oh, nothing to see here", no
problems at all on our southern border.This is not the first one,
nor is it very clever, at least not to those who understand the problem.The article omits many details, so one can see the obvious bias.Be careful with the network news also, its' not so much what they
say, but rather what they "omit", that actually amounts to very biased
reporting!I suspect most democrats also realize its' biased,
but it fits their narrative, so it works out just fine!
Facts don’t matter to those who support Trump. They get their own set of
“facts” fed to them. The fact is , we need immigrants.
They contribute in a variety of ways to the strength and future of this country.
What we are doing now is diverting scarce resources from focusing and catching
the criminal element to terrorizing families fleeing violence and govt
corruption/chaos in other countries. We are terrorizing people who already are
contributing in positive ways to this country. The separation of children from
their parents is immoral and causes permanent damage to these young, innocent
lives. Shame on us.
Some may say illegals are less likely to commit a crime. They are breaking the
law because they are here. Many things are unreported or never caught.Go to McAllen, Weslaco, Brownsville and leave a car unlocked or your kids bike
out in front yard and see if it doesn't find it's way to Mexico. They
may not even take the car but bust your windows just to steal the change in your
cup holder. If you have a ranch they will cut your fences unless you build a
ladder form them. they will break in your cabin and take goods or eat your
livestock.They steal from the tax and insurance payer because they
get food, medical care and an education and without contributing. Nor is there
any intent to ever contribute. Build a home and watch them sneak off
with materials you paid for to build themselves a home - not reportedCar accidents - Illegal's will beg you not to call the police and pay you
cash so they don't get deported - not reportedSteal your
identity - I have had power set up on several homes I have never seen. My son
went into Cosco to open an account to find he already had one and owed $3000 --
That's what I expect from a liberal paper like the Trib. Oh, wait...This is
the very conservative, pro-GOP, Deseret News. See, the truth still matters to
some right leaning publications. Now, a lot of readers will blame the D-News for
succumbing to the left. Hardly. The truth is the truth, neither right or left.
It's just that some right wingers don't like that the truth reflects
poorly on their party. Kudos, D-News.
Numerous DN readers have urged others to build trumps wall as it relates to this
piece regarding the immigration issue.Build trumps wall?During the campaign as well as the last two years trump has promised that
Mexico would pay for his wall.When President Obama promised
something Republicans lost their minds excoriating President Obama 24/7/365.With trump's campaign slogan failing miserably and subsequently he
attempts to shake down Americans for the cost of his wall...no problem.Hold trump accountable for his failed campaign slogan.He has been
bailed out of every one of his failures his entire life.
Here's the bottom line:It is now a crisis because Trump is
attempting to actually enforce immigration law. During the Obama administration,
they processed illegals and let them into the country and gave them a court date
to re-appear before a judge like 3 months later. Of course, most illegals
don't. That is the crisis.Trump is attempting to hold them at
the border because the current system isn't working. If America is fine
with Obama's approach, then there is no crisis. Open borders don't
appear to be a crisis at the border. So all of the numbers that the media are
using make it appear that this crisis is "manufactured." It is only
manufactured because of Trump's attempts at following the rule of law.Congress is too chicken to actually reform immigration. So this is what
we are left with.
The facts indicate that this is a manufactured crisis, created for political
purposes. The real crisis is the number of refugees seeking asylum, but the
solution to that problem is not a wall. These people present themselves to
officials and seek legal entry into the country. Trump has is back against a
wall, and there's really no way out for him without losing face. But maybe
that's what he needs. The statistics also indicate that, on
average, illegal aliens are more law-abiding than your average American citizen.
If Trump really wants a safer country, he should welcome more illegal aliens and
actually make them legal. But what he wants and needs is enemies, easy targets
to deflect attention from his legal and investigatory woes.
"When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of illegal
aliens in our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!"But the thousands murdered by American citizens....we're good with that,
Unreason and anti-intellectualism abominate thought. Thinking implies
disagreement; and disagreement implies nonconformity; and nonconformity implies
heresy; and heresy implies disloyalty — so, obviously, thinking must be
stopped. But shouting is not a substitute for thinking and reason is not the
subversion but the salvation of freedom.- Adlai Stevenson
"It's not a crisis, the water is only warming slightly", said the
Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen praised President Trump and
criticized Democrats who claim the crisis at the border is
“manufactured.” Many people are blind to reality and only see what
they want to see. That's especially true with this crisis on both sides of
our southern border! Democrats see no crisis because they don't want to see
it! To the rest of us, its a glaring, horrible humanitarian nightmare and all
the facts bear that out! Its always easier to pretend there is no crisis because
if you do see it, you must acknowledge YOU are most responsible for creating it
and are morally obligated to correct it! President Trump and most Americans,
especially people who live near the border actually do see it and therefore feel
a morally obligation to correct it. We who are honest with ourselves, need to
support our President! Ignoring the crisis is immoral and un-American!
Hogwash and balderdash! This left-leaning (who else would retweet the ACLU?)
reporter has reverse-engineered an article using "facts" that support
her biased point of view. The elephant in the room is the cost of illegal
immigration, both economically and societally. The "fact" that we still
supposedly ONLY have 10 MILLION illegal aliens in our midst is a good thing? And
who is counting those folks? The same people who are counting heads and drug
shipments that slip into our country under the cover of night or in remote
locations? This is mislabeled as an "In-depth" article and
more accurately belongs in the Opinion section.
The Trump administration admitted that almost all of the 4,000 suspected
terrorists that entered our country came thru airports. Maybe we should be
building a roof instead of a wall?
You can't get threw to people who have their heads buried in the sand.
Facts and reality don't win elections, fear and hope are much better
They may never have been a better article and thread in the DN that highlights
how fact free the right has become. Despite whether there are 11
million or 22 million illegals in the country, if boarder apprehensions and
economic conditions keep this number steady at worst and declining in all
probability how do you contort a "border crisis". You may have a
domestic enforcement problem but not a border crisis. Claiming that
the very presence of illegals is a crisis is willful blindness to the major
contribution they make to our economy. I'm not condoning their illegal
status, I would much prefer they come here under some form of guest worker
program that is adequately screened and monitored..but none the less, their
presence adds to our wealth. The fact that statistically a very few
bad actors get in is again a process and enforcement issue not a "wall"
issue. Basically none of our illegal immigration issues (and we do
have issues) are solved with 500 miles of new massive fencing.
Spains fence with Africa: In 2014, 2,100 immigrants successfully crossed from
Morocco into Spain, but the fence reduced this number substantially to
approximately 100 in 2015. More importantly, however, the fence has greatly
discouraged people from even attempting to illegally cross into Spain. In 2014,
approximately 19,000 people attempted to cross into Spain. That number
diminished to approximately 3,700 in 2015. It appears that the greatest role the
fence has played is in convincing immigrants not to even attempt to enter Spain,
which has greatly reduced illegal immigration rates.Sounds like
Spains barrier works.
Obama’s own border security chief Mark Morgan, who was fired by Trump has
said that there is a crisis on the border. He said and Customs and Border
Protection (CBP) agents regularly apprehend "murderers, rapists, pedophiles,
other violent offenders, and gang members.". Former Obama Chief
Morgan also said, one last point is, 127 Border Patrol agents have died,"
Morgan added. "They didn’t die playing Monopoly. They died defending,
being the frontline defenders of our borders, trying to apprehend 17,000 people,
the bad people, that Secretary Nielsen mentioned. I wondered if fact checkers
asked their families if this was a manufactured crisis."67 border agents
have lost there lives on the border. They didn’t die playing Monopoly.
They died defending, being the frontline defenders of our borders, trying to
apprehend 17,000 people, the bad people, that Secretary Nielsen mentioned. I
wondered if he asked their families if this was a manufactured crisis."I would say that is a CRISIS, fact checkers, as do 70% of Americans
recently polled.....time to wake up and face those facts!"
Can those blindly supporting the wall read this and allow logic to do some
thinking? If the Dems were shouting to build a wall, would you really just tow
the line like you are because it is Trump?
I have a nephew who has been a border guard and supervisor for 14 years in the
Yuma zone. He has had assignments in DC as well. According to him and hundreds
of his collegues, walls and fences are absolutely critical. So called facts and
figures can be spun anyway the press and the Dnews wants to spin them. For
example arrests appear to be down because of catch and release among other
things. Politics dictate who can be arrested vs. who can be detained but not
actually arrested. Drug and human smugglers are caught every day no where near
ports of entry. A few years ago Obama degreed an overall pay decrease for the
Border patrol trying to incent agents to leave the service. Thousands of
illegals cross the border every month and no one knows who they are. My nephew
and a majority of his co-workers are minorities and obviously have no racial
animous. They do not have the resources to do theirs jobs.
I never see an article written about the cost of illegals coming into our
country. The living cost for lodging, food, especially medical expenses, etc.
far outweigh the cost of the wall. They simply need to come in legally and is
the only way they can live the American Dream. Legally they can't work
without a green card - employers take advantage of them if they do work under
the table and they have no recourse.This isn't the first time
walls have been built on our southern border. Several presidents have built
them. The biggest reason we can't come to some kind of compromise is
"politics". Our President wants to fulfill is campaign promise - the
democrats don't want him given credit for building the wall so the fight
goes on. Why don't our congress people go to the border and actually talk
to the border patrol and see what they think. They certainly know what is going
on more than someone who sits at a desk.
I love how facts make no difference to todays extreme conservative posters. Much
like our pretesident they dont like the facts so they blame 'the
media' and 'liberals'.Simply put, it you dont report what
they want to hear, regardless of the facts, they will stomp their feet and pout
while making up their own facts. Trump knows that he can use fear as
a weapon. And the frightened line up to cheer.
@Palmetto Bug - Columbia, SC"You’re welcomed to your own opinion
but not your own facts." Agreed so let's see where this takes us,
shall we? "I have yet to see any facts that convince me we have
a border crisis or that our immigration system is getting worse..." So by
your own definition, you've not seen all of the facts!"We
have a lot of illegal immigrants but they won’t be stopped by a wall,"
Please site your facts!"The border and immigration issues we do
have will not be benefited by a wall." Again, please site your facts."I’d rather see we use the resources Pres Trump wants for the
wall on more effective solutions." Well now, maybe we're getting
somewhere. Would you please site those solutuons for us with the accompanying
facts on why they are more beneficial?"...so you’re safer
today than almost any other time in US history and would be safer in a room of
average illegal immigrants than a room of average Americans)." I'm
wondering if you'd be willing to make that statement personally to all of
the family members of those killed by illegal aliens? Hmm, interesting
question!So I agree with you. You're welcome to your opinion
but not your own facts.
If walls are not helpful, please have every rich Democrat tear down the security
walls around their homes and neighborhood. $5Billion is nothing to the federal
budget. Pelosi and Schumer both voted for border barriers in the past. Now
they are putting their pride before the safety of the American people. Humble
yourselves Democrats and build the wall.
So...If I get the gist of this "Fact Checking" Article...3
times the monetary value of drugs were apprehended at the border crossings than
at illegal points of entry. On the face of it, this sounds conclusive. Any
millisecond of thought about the statistic would support the idea of a physical
barrier. Obviously undetected illegal entry is going to be undocumented and
unaccounted for. Sound like a crisis to me.The next thing that
stood out to me is the claim that we have fewer people crossing our borders not
more. Do we have counters stationed at ALL the points of illegal entry to
measure these numbers? If we have 22 million "undocumented" immigrants,
isn't that a crisis?As for the terrorist presence, do we have a
checkbox at the points of entry for a terrorist to self identify? How long were
the 911 Saudi terrorists here in the US before 9-11? Did they self identify
when they arrived?This article is for the bumper sticker crowd to
point at to confirm their own bias.
l understand these people trying to cross the border are trying to support their
families and make a better life for themselves. I have no problem with that as
long as they come here legally, pay taxes just as we do, Have to have insurance
like we do. (FACT): more county run (not private) hospitals have closed
primarily because the ER's in the past became clinics for them, (thus the
insta cares type facilities were developed. ) they never would pay their bill
and a lot of those hospitals closed. We have children in our country that go to
school hungry and Yet we give illegal people access to our schools, housing etc.
That is just one problem...The second and worst problem is all the
illegal drugs that are coming into the US. They will do ANYTHING to get those
drugs into the country. build tunnels (that collapse and kill people) Our border
patrol are in super dangerous positions being shot at to make sure those drugs
get here.. We could go on about the cartels... but I think we all know. Other countries have Border controls in place... I want to know why is
it so awful if we want to do the same???
Karen R. - Houston, TX"The DN article could also have included the
fact that illegal immigrants are far less likely to commit crimes than Americans
and as a group are underrepresented in the criminal system."So,
Karen, as long as illegals don't commit as many crimes as citizens, the
increase in the number of crimes is OK with you? That is what you're
saying! No illegals means no crimes by or against illegals!silo -
Sandy, UT@slars"there has never been an illegal influx of
people as large as this"Completely false."The
numbers you cite are the numbers of illegals ALREADY in the country. Yes, Pew
says it's 11 Million, Census Bureau a bit higher, MIT claims 22 million.
The one thing those sources do not differ on at all is the fact that the number
in the US has not grown in over a decade."So, the 11-22 million
illegals already here is NOT an invasion? Just how many are needed before you
believe the number of illegals constitutes and invasion?Just for
comparison, do you know how many U.S. Troops were involved in the invasion of
Europe during WWII, or the number of Troops Russia lost during the German
invasion of Russia?Tell me if that was an "invasion."
Would somebody please emial this to Utah's GOP congressional delegation?
They seem to be living in a different world.
I can’t believe this article was written with a straight face. The
numbers cited by themselves indicate a border crisis, a massive one. By building a wall, the asylum problem becomes easier to fix. By securing our
borders, we can the with confidence help those who are truly needy. Currently,
criminals, foreign nationalist, gang members and human traffickers are sneaking
in behind asylum seekers. A million pounds seized at entries
hasn’t eliminated the drug flow into the country. It’s still coming
by three times as much than what’s seized. Where? Where there is no border
security. Build a wall.
Relying on Politico and the Washington Post for factual analysis is probably not
the most credible way to open this story. Assuming that the known reports of
illegal activity across the border misses an important part of the story which
is that the vast gaps in the border that are not well patrolled or monitored due
to lack of resources presents a very big unknown factor. We really have no
reliable way to know just how much we are missing. And in terms of what we do
interdict at the border, do we have any idea what our detection success rate is?
Or are we just assuming in this article that with a relatively static
enforcement effort, our detection rates would change dramatically if the levels
and sophistication of criminal activities changed? It seems to me that this
article repeats what many others in the press have been reporting without really
doing any deeper analysis or giving thoughtful consideration to what it is that
we clearly do not know.
You’re welcomed to your own opinion but not your own facts. I have yet to
see any facts that convince me we have a border crisis or that our immigration
system is getting worse (most data I’ve seen suggest we’re actually
making progress). We have a lot of illegal immigrants but they won’t be
stopped by a wall. The border and immigration issues we do have will not
be benefited by a wall. I’d rather see we use the resources Pres Trump
wants for the wall on more effective solutions. There have been
some cases of illegal immigrants committing murder but illegal immigrants are
far less likely to commit violent crime than US citizens (and violent crime
rates are also near historic lows, so you’re safer today than almost any
other time in US history and would be safer in a room of average illegal
immigrants than a room of average Americans).
The DN article could also have included the fact that illegal immigrants are far
less likely to commit crimes than Americans and as a group are underrepresented
in the criminal system.But this debate has never been about facts
for those drawn to Trump's siren song. This is about emotion and the human
instinct to dislike/distrust "the other." It's about what can
happen when the cynical or opportunistic realize that great power and fortune
can come from exploiting this aspect of human nature. If there is
a crisis, it's the assault on objective truth. I'm grateful for this
effort by the DN to fight on its behalf.
When there is at least one US citizen murdered at the hands of illegal aliens in
our country, there IS a border crisis. Build the wall!
So the author of this story is now the authority on the definition of crisis? I
don't understand anyone defending a position that fails to protect legal US
citizens and those who make the treacherous journey because they can get through
the border. I know because I've know undocumented people,
worked with them, and been there friend. I've seen some of the very real
problems the President talks about first hand. This is a political
football for both parties, but there is truth in the President's concern
and logic. This article seems nothing more than a political
statement aligned with a particular political party with its own fact
interpretation and scale problems that DN appears to support in its soft
opposition to the President of the United States.There are very real
problems at the border which every graph and piece of data supports. In this
case comparative data isn't valid in the argument of whether or not there
is a problem or crisis...there is and it needs to be fixed!
I went to their site, and checked for myself. Southern border
apprehensions2018--521,0902017--415,5172016--553,3782015--444,8502014--568,237Source: U.S. customs and border
protection. CPB southwest border apprehensions and inadmissible.
@slars"there has never been an illegal influx of people as large as
this"Completely false.The numbers you cite are the
numbers of illegals ALREADY in the country. Yes, Pew says it's 11 Million,
Census Bureau a bit higher, MIT claims 22 million. The one thing those sources
do not differ on at all is the fact that the number in the US has not grown in
over a decade.The very definition of an 'influx' is
"an arrival or entry of large numbers of people or things". That is
absolutely not happening today. It mathematically cannot be happening,
otherwise the count of illegals in country would grow year over year.Look at any source on the count of illegals in the country by year. Every
single one shows aggressive growth until 2007, then a drop in 2008, then a
steady trend for the next 10+ years. Every single source, including Pew, Census
Bureau, MIT, Immigration Custom Enforcement and Border Patrol.Even
the rate of border arrivals refutes your claim. Just a decade ago, the numbers
at the border were over a million per year. We're currently sitting at
around 300,000 per year. Those numbers are directly from DHS data.There is no crisis. The data confirms it.
We finally have a President that will fight illegal aliens coming to our country
and now we find even the Deseret News has joined the media with their own spin
on illegal border crossings. Our motto should be no one here illegally, they
all come the right way.When I have left the country I have followed the
rules all the way of the other countries, ours should be no different.
Intelligent people have known all this for a long time. But then, intelligent
people do their own fact checking.
Worf, thank you for your perspective on the ground. Just found this interesting
stat- in 2008 on the southern border there were fewer than 5,000 claiming
asylum. In 2018 there were 97,000 claiming asylum, a 2000% increase in 10
PEW says that there are 11 million people here illegally, Yale/MIT says 22
million. No matter who you believe, there has never been an illegal influx of
people into a country as large as this. A crisis? Yes it is. We
can't have legal and illegal immigration, one has to go.
This liberal propaganda masqurading as a “fact check” is the reason
media is universally detested.
@worf"But there are those who'll believe Nancy Pelosi and
Chuck"It has nothing to do with believing 'Nancy Pelosi and
Chuck'.It has everything to do with the data not supporting the
need for the wall. The article clearly shows there's not a single data
point indicating a sudden crisis on the southern border over the past year, two
years, nor 10 years that would justify a wall.The only data point
that even hints at a crisis the the case backlog growth, and a wall will do
nothing to reduce that 'crisis'. In fact, it would actually divert
funds away from a solution that requires hiring of more lawyers, judges and
staff to process those cases.Even data the President did reference
last night in his speech showed nothing with regard to a wall helping. He was
no different than some MLM company claiming you should take their product for
health because hundreds of thousands of people die from prescription drug
reactions. Nevermind there's not provided evidence that their supplement
is safe nor whether it cures anything. The point is deception to get you to
buy a product, or support funding a wall.
Thanks for this helpful article. I'd like to see similar fact-checking for
other issues, too.
For thirty years I've taught school a half mile from the border. I've
known many people from both sides.I'll just say. Trump is not
lying about this.But there are those who'll believe Nancy
Pelosi and Chuck no matter what.
You can spin the data any way you like.When you had 396,579 illegal
immigrant caugth crossing the border, that is a crisis by itself. Admitting
that the total number of illegal aliens who evaded arrest was probably at least
2-3 times the number arrested that is enough to make it a crisis on any rational
standard.When you have at least 11 million (and quite probably a
whole lot larger number) of illegal aliens living in the U.S. that is certainly
a crisis.When you have illegal aliens committing a lot of crimes,
including murder, rape, drug distribution, etc, that is certainly a crisis.Utahns have been killed by illegal aliens (example Deputy Josie Fox) so
if securing our border would save the life of even one of our police officers,
failing to secure the border is a crisis.Democrats have promised to
secure the border in exchange for amnesty or other "compromises" since
1986 but have not done so. Congress' failure to pass
appropriations resulted in the shutdown, so keep it shut down until the border
is secure. However long that takes. No compromises, no "fix it later"