two men who have been called by our Savior Jesus Christ have given sound counsel
to all who believe on his name and we should do our best to abide by their
wordst will bring forth blessings in our lives
@NeanderthalPerhaps sheep who didn't know their master's
voice were not as discerning or sensitive as other sheep we have heard about.Or, perhaps, they might have just had baaaaad hearing.🤗
@The AtheistPlease check the dictionary for the definition of the
word "battalion".In addition to its military meaning it can
also be used to definine "a large organized group pursuing a common purpose
or goal".As Casey Stengel who managed the New York Yankees for
many years used to say, "you could look it up".I
@george of the jungle:"Sheep know the sound of their masters
voice."For some reason, I have always been puzzled about calling
those who believe in God and follow him as 'sheep.' I would rather
have them called as believers in and followers of God.I have been
around sheep for a small part of my youth. I don't recall them recognizing
the sound of my voice.
No Atheist--referring to them as the Arizona Battalion was not a Military
metaphor..... it was eluding to the Mormon Battalion who was requested by the US
government to be a military battalion but which actually never fired a shot nor
engaged in any military activity.Their contributions differed from
military ones and contributed to the strength of the Church in much more
important ways than militarily--the same as the Arizona LDS contribute in many
kinds of ways to the strength of the rest of the Church. I know
you're not actually interested--and that you were just trying to give a
disrespecting jab to President Nelson--but it was interesting to think about in
what ways the members there might mirror the Mormon Battalion.
@Benign:Arizona's population is currently approximately
7,235,000. 65,000 is .89841% of that - just a little under 1%. But
thank you for your post.
@ConservativeCommonTater: "...legislate their religious beliefs onto people
that are not members of their church."And how is that materially
different than when non-religious people try to legislate their values onto
people that do not believe as they do?There are competing values on
immigration and border security. Anti-theists rarely complain when religious
values are used to justify taxing me to support welfare programs rather than
allowing me to keep my money to spend or donate as I see fit. Taking over the
nation's healthcare system and subjecting us all to government run medical
care is a huge imposition of your values onto me. Ditto taking my guns.California decides 2nd hand smoke is dangerous and bans all smoking in bars.
Utah emulates but is accused of imposing religious beliefs. Secular Europe
imposing DUI limits of 0.02 to 0.05% because it reduces DUI. Utah follows suit
and is accused of imposing religious values.At the end of the day,
somebody's values will be reflected in laws. Might just as well be the
local majority as anyone else's right? Other than hatred of religion, what
does it matter whether values are grounded in religious or anti-theist beliefs?
Re Batallion metaphor: Read the chapter heading for Revelation 12 in the
Church's edition of the Holy Bible. Then read Alma 43-63. The metaphor is
Approx. 65,000, that's pretty good....State Farm Stadium
Capacity63,400 (expandable to 72,200; standing room to at least 78,600)Largest gathering: On March 28, 2010 72,219 were present for a WWE event.Factoid: affectionately known as the Jiffy Pop Stadium to locals because
the silver dome looks like an aluminum bag ready to burst over a camp fire full
of popcorn and the field tracks sort of resembles the wire handle.
To the AtheistThe Mormon Battalion NEVER FIRED A SHOT during their march
(of a couple thousand miles)To others concerning the Mormon
Battalion TrailThey followed the Gila River through Arizona... while not
really close to the Jiffy Pop (State Farm) stadium where the talks were given,
the trail is close if compared with Salt Lake City.You can still drive
north east from Gila Bend and find parts of the trail... also Indian artifacts.
Sheep know the sound of their masters voice. Ya might want to listen for it. He
would be a true friend that will stick by you through thick an thin. He would
not drop you because you go to a different church. I hope you will hear His
voice. Hint, Jesus loves you. You have to show what the New Testament
says that is written on your heart. Show the love.
This was not only a wonderful event for the people of Arizona but it was given
to members of the faith throughout the world. And what a wonderful message and
guidelines for all people , regardless of their faith, to follow. President
Nelson does indeed speak for all mankind the world over.
Anyone know where I can find a transcript or video of these remarks? Would love
to watch it.
Interesting numbers: 65,000 is 6% of the state's population, which is less
than the 7% that are atheist and agnostic, and significantly less than the 27%
of Arizona's "nones."
"Right is still right, and wrong is still wrong, regardless of what is said
or done by movie idols, TV personalities or sports stars."Or,
one might add, political figures. It is extremely gratifying to be led by
leaders, including the incomparable President Russell M. Nelson, who steadfastly
refuse to be corrupted by the mass of contradiction that is popular culture,
epitomized by the media/entertainment/leftist complex.
@Utes-PAC12: "born in Mesa, Arizona late in the 19th century, .... He spoke
about the racism, brutality, etc...."Would that britality,
racism, and other bigotry be at all comparable to what drove the 19th century
members of The Church of Jesus Christ to settle in Salt Lake after being driven
from New York, Ohio, Missouri (under official government extermination order),
and Illinois (where their leaders were murdered while in State custody and under
the promised protection of the governor)? Should we continue to judge the
people of these States by the actions of their 19th century forebears? Or is it
only LDS who are to be condemned because their 19th century ancestors
didn't adhere to 21st century mores, and were imperfect even by their own
times' standards?"He did speak of this "battalion"
that is boasted of in the article. It was so tragic, and still is."What exactly was so tragic about the Mormon Battalion? It never engaged in
combat, was made up of volunteers who enlisted to serve the very nation that had
trampled their rights and expelled them.Do tell what secret history
we're all missing.
What a pity that some have focused on one word battalion and have missed the
messaged extended to all religions to "Come Unto Christ".
The Atheist,"Arizona Batallion? Are military metaphors really a good
idea?"____________________I don't see any good coming from
anything that promotes an us vs. them frame of mind. But we need to remember
that the LDS Church's origins were as a 19th century sect of apocalyptic
millennialism. Although the Church since then has made significant strides
forward in integrating into the larger world, vestiges of a chosen people
mindset remain strong and continue to inhibit Church membership and thinking to
I saw a documentary of a hispanic fellow that was born in Mesa, Arizona late in
the 19th century, a WWII hero, who became the sole commercial photographer for
the architect genius god of all-time Frank Lloyd Wright. He spoke about the
racism, brutality, etc.... and moved from Mesa, Arizona, never to return. He did
speak of this "battalion" that is boasted of in the article. It was so
tragic, and still is.
@The Atheist: "Arizona Batallion? Are military metaphors really a good
idea?"Such metaphors have long been used in Christianity to
describe the battle between good and evil, God and the Devil. "Onward
Christian Soldiers" is probably the canonical hymn using these metaphors.
Such metaphors get used more literally in the great English mythologies of Lewis
and Tolken that were based on Christianity.Of course, since atheists
self proclaim as knowing more of the Bible and Christian doctrines than even
Christians themselves, you are surely well aware of these facts. Which means
your inquiry is not an honest pursuit of knowlege, but is a barbed question
intended to convey your own negative views of Christian beliefs and culture
rather than to to seek common ground and understanding. In other words, your
post is intended to be an uncivil attack, cleverly disuised to make it past the
moderators.Congrats on the latter. But a real shame you feel
compelled to engage in the former behavior at all.
The Atheist - Provo, UTFeb. 11, 2019 7:27 a.m."Arizona
Batallion? Are military metaphors really a good idea?"Look at
the boarder picture. From Old Testament times through the present, the
juxtaposition of good and evil has been metaphorically compared to armies or
battles. No one is calling for armed conflict.
@ConservativeCommonTater,"The problem arises when the church
tries to legislate their religious beliefs onto people that are not members of
their church".Don't be offended. There is no legislation
@Athiest: Yes, a military metaphor is apt and pertinent. You don't have to
believe in a God, or a god, or gods, in order to see there is right and wrong in
this world, good and bad, law-abiding citizens vs. law-breakers. There is a
battle to keep goodness and virtue, kindness and civility, love and respect at
the forefront of our lives when we are so absolutely inundated daily - HOURLY! -
with news of crimes being committed, unfaithful acts of spouses being reported
as if we need to know, racist, misogynistic and judgmental comments from our
so-called leaders that are designed to create divisions amongst us. Yes, unfortunately a military metaphor is apt and pertinent. No religious
affiliation required to choose which side of the battle you are on.
@Atheist - Absolutely. The battle between good and evil is raging. It is a
spiritual battle and members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
need to gear up and take our positions on the front lines. As evil grows, so
does righteousness. As darkness spreads, the light grows brighter in holy
places.The reports of the Church's demise are greatly exaggerated.
Yes, there are those who have lost and left the faith, but there has been an
even greater strengthening of faith among those who remain. Events such as this
one in AZ demonstrate that faith. But even greater are the small but important
steps faithful people are taking to make their lives better. Studying as a
family, attending the temple, ministering to others, etc. This is a very
"Right is still right, and wrong is still wrong," President Oaks said,
"regardless of what is said or done by movie idols, TV personalities or
sports stars." He repeated the church's position on avoiding tattoos,
piercings, immodesty and pornography, calling such things "grafitti on your
personal temple."That is great and wonderful advice to the
members of the church.The problem arises when the church tries to
legislate their religious beliefs onto people that are not members of their
Was wonderful devotional. Grew up associated with the Nelson family. Would
have loved to say hello but so would 65,000 others. Funny how you take things
for granted as a teenager. Makes you wonder who the next friend or neighbor
will be a General Authority. We were limited in the number of
tickets we could get. I could only take a few of my family. I am sure they
could have filled the stadium 3 or 4 times if given the chance. What a
wonderful evening to be in Arizona.PS. I think this may be the only
time Cardinal Stadium will be filled.
Arizona Batallion? Are military metaphors really a good idea?
"Not far from the Mormon Battalion Trail on Sunday night, President Russell
M. Nelson spoke to about 65,000 members of The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints in the Valley of the Sun and called them the faith's
Arizona battalion."This is incorrect. There were many thousands
more in meetinghouses all over Arizona in addition to the 65K in the stadium.
What a glorious event. All four talks will be long remembered. As a result
of the invitations given last night, followers of Christ will strive more
diligently to follow Him.
The battlefield is obvious and beckoning, but our armies form steadily and as
our numbers increase and as the battle is joined by more and more each
day—we give a shout and a glorious ooh rah for Presidents Nelson and
Oaks—the Ike’s and Patton’s of our people. Oh Captains my
Captains, I am only one soldier who has only recently joined the few and the
proud, the very different forces you speak of, but who understands—thanks
to leaders like You—our enemy—(media, Hollywood, some athletes etc)
is at the gates and we are all at General quarters! Lead on!
The strength of the saints in Arizona is a strength and testimony to all of us
in the UK. One family, one belief, one journey.
What a thrilling article. President Russell M. Nelson continues to amaze me with
his stamina and dedication and enthusiasm in meeting the Saints everywhere. His
message is really for the world because of his calling as a Prophet of God. May he be blessed with continued health and strength to do the