New Zealand mosque shooter broadcast slaughter on Facebook

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  • Liberal Mormon Salt Lake City, UT
    March 20, 2019 8:50 a.m.

    And he was inspired by Trump, he said so himself. What does that say about our President? About his fans? I'm afraid of the people who see in him a savior of sorts for our country.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 18, 2019 8:48 a.m.

    pragmatistferlife 9:22
    RE: "If you feel whites are being treated poorly that's your right. It's your right to say so, however it's a small jump from there to hate speech that is not ok"...
    ---
    I don't feel whites are being treated poorly. I just think there are people who see race as a dividing-line and a reason to hate... in all races. Not just white people.

    ===

    RE: "I say this because the right has made that jump from opinions, voicing those opinions, and then making the leap of bigotry by denying some their civil rights based on those opinions, and it's not fringe groups it's policy for conservative movement"...
    ---
    And I would only point out that ANTIFA (Radical-Left fringe) is denying some people their civil rights. Free Speech is a civil-right (even if it's words we don't like). I don't agree with ANY of the Fringe Groups. But they have the same 1st Amendment rights we have. So I tolerate them, until they break the law. ANTIFA thinks violence for their cause is OK. That's just as wrong as groups of any kind thinking violence for their cause is OK.

    Just pointing out the problem's not limited to Conservatives, or even to one race like you Assumed.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 17, 2019 11:31 p.m.

    And not a whisper about the 120 Christians murdered by jihadis the past two weeks.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 17, 2019 3:12 p.m.

    Fabulous Jen 10:20 a.m.
    RE: "I don't see why it is necessary for president Trump to hate the groups of people he hates"
    ---
    And I don't see why it's necessary for President Obama to hate the groups of people he hates. He said (on TV) "We need to punish our "Enemies" (Rs) and reward our friends (Ds).

    R's are not the "Enemy" (unless you've bought into the hate).

    ===

    @pragmatistferlife 9:22
    RE: "I think you could have just said "Racist" and made the same point."
    No you couldn't"...
    ---
    I think all racism is bad. Not just white racists.
    Is acknowledging that borderline "Hate speech"? I don't think so.

    BLM activists shooting white cops in Dallas or NYC is the same as this sad story. That's the point. There are racists of all skin colors. It's the racism that's bad.

    All racism is bad. Whether the racist's skin is white or not.

    Didn't say "I feel whites are being treated poorly". Show me if I did.

    I just said all racism is wrong.

  • Fabulous Jen Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 16, 2019 10:59 a.m.

    Shane333:

    For me at least (and possibly others) your quick reading of that hate-filled "manifesto" to ascertain no influence from Trump's demagoguery to what that shooter did is like walking through a grisly crime scene, finding the refrigerator, and saying, "Thank goodness the milk didn't spoil."

  • Shane333 Orem, UT
    March 16, 2019 10:22 a.m.

    @Fabulous Jen,

    There are already enough histrionics, personal accusations, and jumping to conclusions in this discussion. I feel no need to contribute to those things or to meet your personal arbitrary requirements for public displays of abhorrence.

    The following is a direct quote from the terrorist's manifesto regarding whether he is a Trump supporter:
    "As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no."

    Again, the terrorist expressed hope that people will politicize his mass murder. His reason why? To, "ultimately result in a civil war that will eventually balkanize the US along political, cultural and, most importantly, racial lines." (Terrorist's manifesto quoted)

    I have no desire to aid this terrorist in his efforts to foment division along political, cultural, or racial lines. So I've limited my participation in this discussion to dispelling a common incorrect assumption that I've seen repeatedly posted, and to explaining why those who engage in personal attacks and politicize the terrorist's actions are doing exactly what the terrorist wants.

  • Fabulous Jen Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 16, 2019 10:20 a.m.

    jsf wrote at 11:52 PM:

    "Blame Trump you are supporting his hate. You are his hate."

    I don't see why it is necessary for president Trump to hate the groups of people he hates.

  • pragmatistferlife Salt Lake City, UT
    March 16, 2019 9:22 a.m.

    2bits.."I know it kinda makes sense to point out that in this instance it was a "White racist". But I think you could have just said "Racist" and made the same point."

    No you couldn't. The point and fact was he is a "white" racist. Someone who believes in the superiority of being white. If a terrorist is black and believes in the elimination of whites, call it out, but your recent passive aggressive defense of "whites" in contrast to known facts and realities is becoming pretty evident.

    If you feel whites are being treated poorly that's your right. It's your right to say so, however it's a small jump from there to hate speech that is not ok.

    I say this because the right has made that jump from opinions, voicing those opinions, and then making the leap of bigotry by denying some their civil rights based on those opinions, and it's not fringe groups it's policy for conservative movement.

  • Tekakaromatagi Dammam, Saudi Arabia
    March 16, 2019 9:06 a.m.

    Identity politics has gone on way too long. For the love of God! Stop! We are sick of it.

    We can dice things any way we want. Taking revenge against Moslems for what happened in Europe is dumb. The people doing the killing in Europe were nut cases. Yes, they were Moslems, but they were nut cases first and Moslems second. If this guy goes into a mosque, and shoots people, it isn't because he's white, it is because he's a nut case too. A nut case first and a white guy second.

    The greatest revenge is to NOT become like your adversary. I hate these nut cases so bad, what I am going to do is if I see someone who is different than me, a stranger or whatever, I will show him a hand of fellowship. We are all travelers in this world trying to get back home and that unites us.

    (There, I have poked my finger into the eyes of all these nut cases and I hope that they are squirming right now and grabbing their eyes.) Don't take revenge against a person, take revenge against an idea, a custom, a paradigm.

  • Fabulous Jen Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 16, 2019 6:17 a.m.

    Shane333 writes 2:50 PM:

    "I've read through much of the terrorist's manifesto. He is a self declared terrorist. He is not a Trump supporter and does not regard him a hero."

    It's telling you were able to spend an hour reading that 74 page "manifesto" to absolve Trump of any connection but the abhorrence of the content did not rate any mention from you at all.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:52 p.m.

    The manifesto also said he believed in a governmental system like china. See it was Bernie and AOC that are this idiots heros. We must censor all their socialist democrat hate speech that creates this lunacy. See how stupid that sounds.

    Pick a side, your doing his biding. Blame Trump you are supporting his hate. You are his hate.

  • wgirl , 00
    March 15, 2019 11:17 p.m.

    I’ll be hoping to hear from the religious freedom folks soon.

    This is what it means to have your religion under threat. These people, as well as the Jewish worshippers gunned down in the US last year really know it means to be under threat.

    It kind of makes some of the recent fuss over and concern about religious freedom being taken away because a female employee wants to use birth control seem pretty silly.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    March 15, 2019 8:24 p.m.

    @Anti Bush-Obama:

    Actually, New Zealand is a different country than Australia.

    It was after a similar shooting that Australia dramatically changed their gun laws, and the prime minister of New Zealand said they will be changing theirs, as well, after this incident.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 15, 2019 4:45 p.m.

    Gerry marshall
    Regardless of how many mass killings we’ve had, their gun control laws did not stop this one.

    And BTW, their population is about 5 million, while ours is about 350 million. Just to stay proportional, we should have about 70X more mass killings than they do.

    And she IS anti-Semitic. She is not just critical of the current leadership there, she is critical of the existence of the nation of Israel itself. Sorry she has you so snookered.

    BlueDevil
    Had you read all of my post, you would have seen that I said I welcome legal immigrants, and I always have. The problem with liberals is they cannot differentiate between legal and illegal aliens.

    Ernest
    Fascist theory from you know who. nancy? chuckie? maduro? Who?

    2 bits
    Leaving out the “white” part when describing the racist does not fit the MSM’s narrative.

  • SuzViews Mesa, AZ
    March 15, 2019 4:24 p.m.

    @Unreconstructed Rob — Thank you for your service. Respectfully, serving in combat does not qualify you to diagnose others as ‘loons’.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 15, 2019 4:11 p.m.

    Shane333 - Orem, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:50 p.m.
    I've read through much of the terrorist's manifesto. He is not a Trump supporter and does not regard him a hero. Reading the manifesto, the only thing the terrorist approves of regarding Trump is that Trump happens to be a white man. The terrorist said that he disapproves of Trump in regards to both policy and leadership. All of the discussion linking Trump and the terrorist is therefor a red herring.
    =======

    Then you must have read something a lot different than the rest of the world has seen.

  • drich Green River, Utah
    March 15, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    We have screaming gun control. It was an armed citizen at the second mosque that sent the terrorist running but not much is said about that is there.

  • drich Green River, Utah
    March 15, 2019 3:52 p.m.

    We have screaming gun control. It was an armed citizen at the second mosque that sent the terrorist running but not much is said about that is there.

  • Anti Bush-Obama , 00
    March 15, 2019 3:14 p.m.

    I guess gun bans don't work. Even in Austrailia.

  • Kouger Lehi, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:54 p.m.

    Definitely a Trump effect! "There were good people on both sides." - Trump

  • Shane333 Orem, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:50 p.m.

    I've read through much of the terrorist's manifesto. He is a self declared terrorist.

    He is not a Trump supporter and does not regard him a hero. Reading the manifesto, the only thing the terrorist approves of regarding Trump is that Trump happens to be a white man. The terrorist said that he disapproves of Trump in regards to both policy and leadership. All of the discussion linking Trump and the terrorist is therefor a red herring.

    The terrorist also said in his manifesto that his hope is that his mass murder will be politicized in the USA, to divide the USA and eventually lead to a civil war in the USA. Everyone pushing politicized arguments are actually serving the interests of the terrorist.

    Because of this, however the terrorist identifies himself, I think it best to hold him and any actual accomplices responsible for their own actions instead of casting blame on others who aren't specifically affiliated with the terrorist.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:48 p.m.

    RE: "White racist claims responsibility"...
    ---
    I know it kinda makes sense to point out that in this instance it was a "White racist". But I think you could have just said "Racist" and made the same point.

    There are white racists, black racists, asian racists, hyspanic racist, muslim racists, all kinds of racists. They are all bad (IMO). It's the notion that your race is at war with other races... that's the problem, and the flase-idea we need to stop. That is the problem. All racism.

    The black guy who shot 5 white police officers from the parking garage in Dallas, was racist. The black guy who snuck up on white cops in their car was racist.

    Muslims who do attacks in America (Orlando, San Bernadino, WTC, etc)...

    There have been terrible incidents involving white racists/terrorists...

    This is "Terrorism". Just like any other Terrorism.

    Google "Terrorism in the United States"...
    Attacks have been carried out by people of all races and religions. It's not a white thing (like some would like you to believe).

    And it's all bad. No matter what the race of the attacker, or the victims. It's all wrong.

    We need to learn to get along. All factions.

  • Unreconstructed Reb BE, 00
    March 15, 2019 2:24 p.m.

    SuzViews, I have been in combat. I get the terror, horror, panic, rage, adrenaline and nightmares of everything that entails.

    I stand by my characterization of anyone who pulls the trigger in cold blood on unarmed men, women, and children in a house of worship as a "loon."

  • ute alumni Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:23 p.m.

    Libs/dems/socialists/ leftists.
    Please get new talking points. Everything is Trump’s fault is a joke. Half the country voted for him. Another excuse to call for gun confiscation. Won’t work.

  • Utah Girl Chronicles Eagle Mountain, UT
    March 15, 2019 2:15 p.m.

    Great irony in Trump starting his day tweeting about and criticizing the FBI, CIA, and Department of Justice. Those are the people who track white supremacist groups and prosecute white supremacist groups.

    Irony can be upsetting sometimes.

  • SuzViews Mesa, AZ
    March 15, 2019 1:48 p.m.

    We should be careful not to characterize Caucasian’s who are responsible for terrorist acts or even mass shootings as ‘loons’, ‘crazy’ or ‘mentally ill’ until we know the facts.

    I think these descriptions are a cop out for this particular race. Consider the fact that the Vegas shooter (who gunned down 50 @ an outdoor concert from his hotel window) has never been classified (except by a local Caucasian cop) as a domestic terrorist, although there is no evidence that he was mentally unstable. Casually classifying people who kill as mentally ill also stereotypes people with mental challenges & perpetuates stigma and shame that can lead to suicide.

    Obviously, from this well written DN Article, the Caucasian in captivity wrote a long manifesto about his beliefs re: Immigrants. The rhetoric of our day among leaders fuels the fire of hatred that so many feel towards targeted groups worldwide.

    “Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: ...Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.”
    ―Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I applaud leaders faiths & nations who strongly condemn this massscre @ mosques. Religious protection needs to be provided for all faith-based groups.

  • Unreconstructed Reb BE, 00
    March 15, 2019 1:20 p.m.

    The responses saying this has nothing to do with Trump are remarkable.

    What part of the manifesto calling Trump "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose" don't you get?

    What part of the guy who shot up a synagogue while saying Trump's rhetoric on immigrants and Soros didn't go far enough don't you get?

    What part of the man who mailed IEDs to politicians and media outlets singled out for abuse by Trump's twitter don't you get?

    What part of "very fine people on both sides" in response to a deadly white supremacist march don't you get?

    No, I don't hold Trump directly responsible for what these loons are doing. But how often do you see a foreign terrorist approvingly naming the President of the United States as part of his screed justifying his murders? Why does that not give you pause? Doesn't it bother you?

    At some point you Trump defenders need to take a step back for some introspection and reflection on how his irresponsible rhetoric and pandering to a Far Right base that blames ethnic and religious minorities for our problems play a role in all of this. This is an environment which he has seized on and which he continually stokes for support.

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    March 15, 2019 1:00 p.m.

    Rick for Truth - Provo, UT
    "he is not a conservative," true, but only because he claims conservativism is just "corporatism in disguise" and is dead. (P. 15 & 25)
    "he is not a Christian," Actually he states he does not know if he is Christian. (P. 15)
    "he does not support Trump." Somewhat true. He states he supports Trump as a "symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose" but not as a "policy maker and leader." (p. 16)

    He claims he is an environmental leftest, a eco fascist. He actually never claims he is an environmental leftist. He does claim to be an eco-fascist. However, eco-fascists "sacrifice their own interests to the "organic whole of nature" and which would rely on militarism, expansionism, and possibly racism to defend the land." (P. 15). He also states he most aligns with the beliefs of Sir Oswald Mosley, who was a British fascist and founded the British Union of Fascists (aka Blackshirts). (P. 15)

    continued...

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    March 15, 2019 12:46 p.m.

    ""The shooter is a big supporter of the fascist rhetoric coming from you know who."

    "In other words, it's Trump's fault and the fault of white conservative men. What a hateful, unconscionable lie."

    But the shooter was a Trump supporter. He said so in his manifesto. That is true.

    "The 74-page dossier, which has been described by Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison as a "work of hate", hailed Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose".

  • Daedalus, Stephen Arvada, CO
    March 15, 2019 12:40 p.m.

    The volume and pitch of the defensiveness in this comment thread speaks for itself.

  • Brave Sir Robin San Diego, CA
    March 15, 2019 12:36 p.m.

    @count Rushmore

    "Conflating gang violence with "mass shootings" is just a way to tell a lie."

    Guess what? New Zealand has gangs too. Know why New Zealand gang members don't kill each other?

    They don't have access to guns.

    No matter how you spin it, nationwide gun bans do work.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 15, 2019 12:12 p.m.

    RiDal - Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:12 a.m.
    @one old man:
    "But one problem is that many of our American hate groups idolize trump and even use some of this tweets to support their agendas. "

    Well, the irony here is that the only one in this thread singling out an American person or mythological group for blame is you. I call that "spreading hatred".

    =====

    No, I'm spreading truth. If you will seek out some of the extremist American websites, you will find frequent praise of trump and his ideas of nationalism. You will also find several videos of people who are parts of trump's world ( Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn, Sean Hannity, and others) speaking to various of these organizations.

    You will also learn that there are a large number of right wing evangelical churches that espouse white supremacy.

    Do some honest, careful research and you will open your eyes.

    What's out there is beyond ugly.

  • Count Rushmore Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:58 a.m.

    "The headline makes perfect sense to me."

    Yup, it's supposed to. That's the effect instant certainty has. In creating the "narrative," the complicit media wants you to ignore the red flags, including that real journalists with gravitas are warning everyone not to take the manifesto at face value.

    Examples of the false narrative the left is attempting to establish:
    "Americans should beware of this kind of hate being stoked. Currently it's being stoked by the highest office in our nation."

    "Looks like America’s foreign policy is having an affect on the rest of the world."

    "So the shooter apparently invoked Trump as his hero in his manifesto."

    "What we do know is a group of white men committed an act of terrrorism and some part of their “justification” named Trump as inspiration."

    "The shooter is a big supporter of the fascist rhetoric coming from you know who."

    In other words, it's Trump's fault and the fault of white conservative men. What a hateful, unconscionable lie.

  • shamrock Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:46 a.m.

    @RiDal, your claim that the New Zealand shooter "is not a Trump supporter" lacks important context. The shooter's manifesto expressly states that he supports Trump "as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose" even though he doesn't support Trump as a policy leader.

    I read this as the shooter saying doesn't like Trump's general politics but he likes his bigotry against non-whites and immigrants. To my way of thinking, this does not reflect well on Trump.

  • JLindow St. George, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:45 a.m.

    One might innocently think "This is horrific! Nobody supports this kind of act!"

    But if you head over to the comment boards of Fox News or Breitbart, you'll see that there is actually quite a lot of support for this act of terrorism.

    The evil that human beings are capable of is just beneath the surface for some.

  • Frozen Fractals Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:44 a.m.

    The guy hated Muslims and immigrants that weren't white, hence why they attacked a mosque.

    "The shooter was not an American "right winger". He was not a Trump supporter."

    Bolsanaro in Brazil, Le Pen in France, Orban in Hungary, the AfD party in Germany, there's plenty of far right anti immigrant/refugee sentiment floating around. This shooter is in that mold.

    "The "NRA" has absolutely nothing to do with this. New Zealand already has much tighter gun laws than the USA. In fact, on a per-capita basis, New Zealand and Norway now both have higher mass-shooting incident rates than the USA. "

    Statistics of small numbers, when you have 1/60th the population sometimes you might have 2 in a span of time while the US has 105 and have a higher per capita rate, and sometimes you have 0 for years. Norway has such a low homicide rate that their one atrocity of a mass shooting doubled their gun murder rate that year. Though I suspect your stat is actually not one of mass shooting incident rates but rather one of mass shooting fatality rates because both those countries had one massive one.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:41 a.m.

    The shooter is a big supporter of the fascist rhetoric coming from you know who. This is just awful. It happens on the same day the president says he has the support of violent people. A veiled threat if there ever was one.
    Will this ever stop?
    It's so hard to understand how people I thought were good still support the man with such awful rhetoric.

  • Count Rushmore Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:26 a.m.

    "USA has had 61 incidents of 4 or more people shot since 1 Jan 2019.
    New Zealand had mass shootings in:"

    Conflating gang violence with "mass shootings" is just a way to tell a lie. Distorting statistics in order to deceive the gullible has become extremely common in our society. The wise will neither participate in it, nor will they be deceived by it.

    "We live in a time when even the wisest will be hard-pressed to distinguish truth from clever deception."
    -- President Henry B. Eyring

  • THEREALND Mishawaka, IN
    March 15, 2019 11:21 a.m.

    "A man who claimed responsibility for the shootings left a 74-page anti-immigrant manifesto in which he explained who he was and his reasoning for the attack. He said he was a 28-year-old white Australian and a racist."

    The headline makes perfect sense to me.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:18 a.m.

    We ought to understand the religion issue in New Zealand. There are about 46,000 Muslims in the country, compared to 109,000 Mormons. No figures for Pastafarians (FSM) but there are 53,000 Jedi adherents.

    On a serious note, perhaps we need to consider a change in our feelings about assimilation. It has become a dirty word, reeking of western thought. The "salad bowl" variety is du jour.

    But that doesn't seem to be working, does it?

  • Dal Pal Rexburg, ID
    March 15, 2019 11:12 a.m.

    It's ironic that he protested immigration by immigrating to another country and killing many people. I think people need to learn to control their hate and anger. How horrible.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:12 a.m.

    @one old man:
    "But one problem is that many of our American hate groups idolize trump and even use some of this tweets to support their agendas. "

    Well, the irony here is that the only one in this thread singling out an American person or mythological group for blame is you. I call that "spreading hatred".

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 11:07 a.m.

    Let me first state that no one condones this terroristic act against Muslims.
    No one. Literally not one single rational person.

    But lets also note how this all tends to destroy "the liberal narrative".
    The shooter was not an American "right winger". He was not a Trump supporter. The "NRA" has absolutely nothing to do with this. New Zealand already has much tighter gun laws than the USA. In fact, on a per-capita basis, New Zealand and Norway now both have higher mass-shooting incident rates than the USA.

    This should also not be used as an excuse to insulate Islam from its many legitimate criticisms, nor as an excuse to suppress "hate speech". The rights of the vast majority of people to speak freely cannot be suppressed because an infinitesimal fraction of people commit atrocities.

    If we were going to start blaming peripheral conditions, like "hateful rhetoric", then should we not also consider the reasons for the hateful rhetoric: the actions of Liberal politicians who allow massive immigration from cultures that are truly incompatibly different from the West ?

  • DonCervantes Glen Allen, VA
    March 15, 2019 11:03 a.m.

    What I find most disturbing is the manner in which the media is covering this tragedy. Their incessant attacks on white males leads to white male aggression. This disgusting terrorist espoused eco-Fascism ideology. His manifesto mewlings are similar to the incoherent chants of Antifa. It is unfortunate to read so many comments from supposed Utahns who place blame on an American President, rather than where it so clearly lies - the terrorist. I wonder if these same people blame the innumerable acts of terrorism committed by Muslims on Islam?

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    March 15, 2019 10:58 a.m.

    @lost in DC - have land borders isn't the problem. There are two factors in this region that affect this problem. From the reports the main shooter was Australian - which is a member of the common wealth - and hence free travel between these nations. Second, the largest problem in that region is those that over stay visas. It's also a leading issue in the US.

    And the rub is most if not all those killed were legal immigrants, not illegal. This has very little to do with illegal immigration. We had members of our Spanish branch assaulted - who are in the country legally - but were attacked because they were hispanic. When you see a hispanic person there is no way of telling if they are legal, or illegal, or if they have been in country weeks or generations. That is one of the biggest issues we are currently facing.... assumptions are being made that if your not of European origin, you must be illegal.

  • GingerMarshall Brooklyn, OH
    March 15, 2019 10:54 a.m.

    Somebody said: “I see also that New Zealand’s stringent gun laws did not stop this horrendous act.”

    USA has had 61 incidents of 4 or more people shot since 1 Jan 2019.

    New Zealand had mass shootings in:
    Feb ‘97
    Feb ‘95
    June ‘94
    June ‘92
    May ‘92
    Nov ‘90
    May ‘51.

    New Zealand has had fewer mass shootings in three quarters of a century than the US had last week.

    But somebody somehow claims that gun control does not work.

    Right.

    Somebody also tried to claim that Congresswoman Omar’s criticisms of a PAC that spends millions to buy congressional influence for Israel is “antiSemitism.”

    Criticism of dark money influencing Congress is not antiSemetic, even if it is millions of dollars being funneled to congress by Israel.

    What we do know is a group of white men committed an act of terrrorism and some part of their “justification” named Trump as inspiration. The Trump who just said, in a taped interview, “I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump – I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad.”

  • T-money$$$ Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 10:29 a.m.

    Beyond tragic. I used to live there! New Zealand is a very diverse country but the people there are very peaceful and tolerant. It's heartbreaking to see such goodwill taken advantage of. Xenophobia and hateful anti-immigrant rhetoric have eroded all compassion and logic from the perpetrator (or group of perpetrators).

    It's disturbing to see how the internet was used to embolden these extremest ideologies. Even more disturbing might be that an American president is now being cited as inspiration for terrorist attacks in distant parts of the world.

    I hope we can all get better at calling out hate speech and intolerance wherever we see it - weather that's at our workplace, in church, our schools, or elsewhere in the community

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    March 15, 2019 9:46 a.m.

    My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims. May those behind the attacks also be cured of their hate – and if not, may it not be allowed to spread.

    viejogeezer
    one has to wonder if omar’s anti-Semitic comments and nancy’s weak response will contribute to a similar incident?

    Old man
    I would not give their sites the traffic – it would only encourage them

    But let’s see, New Zealand is composed of a group of islands, no common border with anyone, so I suspect they have very little problem with illegal immigration – nothing compared to the problem we have with illegal immigration – any comparison, by the perps of leftist posters on this board, is way off base. Legal immigrants are more than welcome.

    I see also that New Zealand’s stringent gun laws did not stop this horrendous act.

  • cavetroll SANDY, UT
    March 15, 2019 9:36 a.m.

    This is the real "war on religion" that conservatives often talk about. This is the result of not seeing others as humans, but rather as things less than human. When we vilify each other for just about everything they are or do, we all lose our humanity. Too often, we look for and at differences instead of similarities.

  • Iron Rod Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 9:30 a.m.

    Personal Opinion Islamophobia is alive and well.

    My thought is the media here in Utah and the nation tend to down play or deemphasize occurrences such as this.

    Can you imagine the outrage if this had happened at a black southern church or a Synagogue?

    They are not children of a lesser God.

    They should be treated with respect and dignity as any one else.

  • Vermonter Plymouth, MI
    March 15, 2019 9:21 a.m.

    Whether it is Trump’s anti-immigration rhetoric or Obama’s anti-police rhetoric contributing to violence, it needs to be toned down. Both Obama and Trump have simply not been measured in their words, weighing the potential indirect consequences.

    But, the bigger problem is that some nut jobs will glom onto any rationale no matter how illogical, to do violence. (Because that’s what mentally ill people do.)

    I have said it before. But, I’ll say it again. Half or more of the mass murders of the past 40 years could have been prevented with appropriate mental health services in the US and around the world. We just prefer to allow maximum freedom by having most mentally-challenged people living intermingled in our society. I don’t think the cost is worth it. But our society, pretty much by default, has decided to live with the risks and the consequences.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 15, 2019 9:12 a.m.

    RiDal - Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 8:08 a.m.
    @Itsjustpyrite:
    "Currently it's being stoked by the highest office in our nation. "

    Oh, Please!
    Just stop it.

    ======

    But one problem is that many of our American hate groups idolize trump and even use some of this tweets to support their agendas. And in New Zealand, the long manifesto written by the shooter contain a number of references to trump.

    No, the truth is that trump is using these groups to help provide support for him. Read some of their online rantings and you will see it for yourselves.

    This is why it's so important for Americans to do some research and learn for themselves just who these hate groups are, what they stand for, and why.

  • at long last. . . Kirksville , MO
    March 15, 2019 9:10 a.m.

    I am pretty sure the leftists will claim Trump and/or Global Warming are responsible for this tragedy.

  • viejogeezer CARLSBAD, CA
    March 15, 2019 8:28 a.m.

    Last week a Muslim congresswoman criticizes US policy toward Israel and the politicians and news people have a week long outrage fest. Today 42 Muslims are murdered and no one seems to care much. Where is the outrage from the politicians? Maybe she had a point.

  • one old man MSC, UT
    March 15, 2019 8:09 a.m.

    And in America, this kind of mindless hate is growing according to several organizations that track hate crimes.

    Every American who cares needs to begin exploring the hate sites that fill our internet.

    There are sites that are openly hateful toward races, religions, skin color and more. They are very easy to find. But when you find them, you need to be prepared to read and see some ugly sickening things.

    I've tried in the past to post information about them here, but have always been denied.

    But I know that when decent people are unaware of what is flowing from the computers around us, we allow them to succeed in their awful agendas. Only if we are aware of the real story behind the hate that drives American extremism will we be able to help beat them down.

    Ignorance does not feed knowledge.

  • RiDal Sandy, UT
    March 15, 2019 8:08 a.m.

    @Itsjustpyrite:
    "Currently it's being stoked by the highest office in our nation. "

    Oh, Please!
    Just stop it.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    March 15, 2019 7:56 a.m.

    Looks like America’s foreign policy is having an affect on the rest of the world. Good people used to look at us an example of what their countries could be. Now evil looks to us as the example.

  • UtahBlueDevil Alpine, UT
    March 15, 2019 7:02 a.m.

    Every other publication in the world a massacre like this is front page news. In Salt Lake, it is page 2 content. Would love to know the thinking behind that. No wonder people don't understand global issues...

  • Graying Lion Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 7:00 a.m.

    I can't imagine the level of resentment required to kill 49 people and wound another 48. I know next to nothing about New Zealand, and have no way to determine what any of us can do to help the survivors. Perhaps the media can do some digging and let the public know if charitable contributions can be made through the Red Cross or another organization to send a donation.

  • The Great Helmsman Salt Lake City, UT
    March 15, 2019 6:36 a.m.

    Horrific monsters loose on this planet.

  • dogbreath Francis, UT
    March 15, 2019 6:19 a.m.

    No death penalty here. Only life in prison, if that.

  • SuzViews Mesa, AZ
    March 15, 2019 5:43 a.m.

    “They are us.” This is what true leadership looks like — uniters, not dividers, peace builders vs. inciters of hatred & prejudice.

    “...a man who claimed responsibility for the shootings left a 74-page anti-immigrant manifesto in which he explained who he was and his reasoning for his actions.

    Ardern at a news conference alluded to anti-immigrant sentiment as the possible motive, saying that while many people affected by the shootings may be migrants or refugees ‘they have chosen to make New Zealand their home, and it is their home. They are us. The person who has perpetuated this violence against us is not’."

    Short term victories & power may be gained by demagoguing the powerless, but long term respect & accolades will be attributed to leaders such as those we’re hearing from in Australia & New Zealand.

  • unrepentant progressive Bozeman, MT
    March 15, 2019 5:28 a.m.

    Madness, sheer madness.

    In an otherwise peaceful country, anti-immigrant zealotry leads to multiple deaths of people in the act of worship.

    It is terrorism against all of us.

    It is not to be tolerated.

    If this country can not call out similar sentiments, we will see even more violence on our streets.

  • Itsjustpyrite Magna, UT
    March 15, 2019 4:32 a.m.

    This is what xenophobia leads to. This is more than sad. This is an extremely ugly Act. Americans should beware of this kind of hate being stoked. Currently it's being stoked by the highest office in our nation. Thoughts and prayers will not stop this. Only love and acceptance and education will ever have a chance at fighting this type of action.